I'd like to point out a few bits of theosophic wisdom that should be obvious

The source of evil is corruption…


A dimension where corruption exists will manifest evil, pain and suffering eventually, and make it a regularized matrix where evil exists in a circle and constantly repeats itself.

Philosophically speaking life is a circle.
We get up in the morning, go to the bathroom, get breakfast, and go to work, repeatedly, so on and so on.... That is a circle.

Corruption turns the circle into an ellipse (imperfect circle) because eventually inside the circle of our life we will face evil and suffering inevitably, which is sourced in the created regularized matrix--ellipse.

Our life is an imperfect circle of suffering because the corruption is inside our faculties

This imperfect circle (our life of pain and suffering) will only resolve itself when the inner corruption of our faculties is erased.

originally posted by: Rhaegar7
Let's start with defining the Absolute.

As it is not possible, let's move on.

God is the Supreme Principle of Evil and that is self-evident. It could be no other way.

What is 'self-evident' is the limitation of your understanding/vision.
God is Omni-! That means ALL inclusive; One!
All 'good', and all 'evil', exist in the vain judgmental thoughts/ego perceived and believed by the beholder. There is no 'Supreme Principle of Evil', such vanity is far from Universal! Anything carrying the vanity of the label of the 'Supreme Principle (tm) of Anything' best be, at the very least, Universal!
And, yes, God includes all ego/thought/vanity (Omni-), and also transcends.

a reply to: Nothin



Mission accomplished haha

a reply to: Willtell

Very well said.

a reply to: AngelBlossom

This is quite an interesting thread! I would probably be considered a 'light-sider' since I just want to help everybody. I'm only 15, but my goal in life is to make everybody happy, to make everybody smile, to make everybody feel loved. So yeah, but I might be hypocritical thinking "Everything is beautiful". Though, I do not like people who rape or kill, I can see why they would think it's beautiful. I don't think it is though. Once, I thought no matter what everything was. But I am a victim of rape so it was tarnished a bit. Now, I hold the same belief but I have to put my self in their shoes & see why they would enjoy it. I'm very new to philosophy, but I enjoy it deeply. I do like your guy's beliefs too. In the way I was raised, I was made to believe a lot of what you guys said was wrong. But I see, something in it. I see a spark, & I it's so beautiful that I'm willing to burn my hand to grab it & to just feel it. Even of it's only for a second. To me, the spark is beautiful. It takes my own love & gives it to everybody else. Making my wish true. I feel like I make no sense. Oh dear, I hope you guys get what I mean? Help set it straight in a sense. See you guys around!

I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. No, I don't consider these things beautiful. My opinion on the matter is that there is a specific purpose to this dualistic world of ours. If its duality was missing, everything would be indeed perceived as perfectly beautiful from the perspective of being a unique snowflake fallen out of the ultimate Source. With duality however, there is this overarching element of 'unreality' that pervades everything in our human experience and creates the dichotomies of 'beautiful-ugly', 'right-wrong', 'good-bad', etc. From some more distant perspective, everything has its beauty. But that's a perspective that is very detached from our own. Our own tells us that some things are good, and some are bad - some are beautiful, while others are ugly. To be fair, to create this dual world must have been quite a big feat and this suggests to me the work of an intelligent creative force. Intelligent design.

Our human perspective is no less valid than an universal one. In fact, it may be more valid, because when submerged into the unreality of this world, our experience becomes kind of 'hyper-real'.

I think you'll have great fun exploring philosophy, but do try to make it fun. Nietzsche is a good bet. A lot of the other popular philosophers would probably bore you to death. I'd suggest you read up a little on all of them and find those who resonate the most with you.

All perspectives are valid at least to some degree. There is beauty even in organized religions such as Christianity. But it's not to everyone's taste and if we're striving to perfect this beauty, we should try to apply the principles of harmony and put it in its proper place. For example, I consider Christianity beautiful when it is simply an interesting myth. A fable of spirituality. That sort of thing. On the other hand, when it is used to control and oppress it becomes the epitome of ugliness. And this world kind of forces us to side with the beautiful, rather than the ugly.



I'm sorry I did not reply sooner. I wanted to put the topic to sleep for a while, because I felt spent. I am just now rereading it. I will try addressing all of your questions.

Lastly. There is nothing wrong with believing in good and wanting to do good. I think that is the main purpose of the dualistic world experience. This unique opportunity to actually *be* good. Fittingly, these inclinations have always been looked at as being naive or childish, while they are the grain of truth that persists from the start to the finish.

You are doing great.

originally posted by: DanielKoenig

originally posted by: Rhaegar7


'Evil' and 'bad' cannot be used interchangeably.

"You don't get to decide* what's good and evil in this world."

Oh, so I don't get to choose my own way of thinking. I mean, we have the Bible to do it for us, right?

There's evil and then there's depravity and irrationality. There is depraved evil, and there is irrational evil, but there is also natural evil, necessary evil, enlightened evil. One has to acquaint himself with the darkness.

Can you explain the differences between these and give some examples? Do you think the cool sexy lucifer evil is like if you were walking in the park and saw an old lady drowning in the pond you would tip your fedora, flick your cigarette, say 'ce la vie', smirk, moonwalk away, or get our your camera phone and film it to later use for 'research purposes', is this the kind of evil, or bad, you admire, and that rules and should rule the world?

Lets say infact a God did fashion the universe, you would say this God would be evil, because it is non interfering on Earth (what if it interferes through the potential for goodness, which is largely enacted, via mankind?) you would suggest it is evil?

Would you consider it evil for the brutality and grotesqueness of biology?

God lets termites ruin peoples homes (God is therefore evil), why cant I, its not fair! Are you comparing yourself to a termite, do you want to live the life of a termite?

Well, that's a great attempt of playing Lucifer's advocate if I've ever seen one.

It's hard to know the darkness, unless you've traversed it yourself.

I was talking to a friend about the movie Maleficent. She loved the way they created the main character and thought it a great example of a cool 'evil' character.

There are many examples of evil characters standing out in fiction and being quite likable. Evil is generally misunderstood. I consider good and evil from the perspective of being equally valid alignments in the universal role-playing game, each having its own set of challenges and its own specific logic. From my perspective, it's much easier to play a good character, as you only need to persist in your choice to win the game this way, while if you role-play an evil character it gives you a lot of freedom and the opportunity to advance and gain wisdom, but those come at a price. If you fail to control the darkness and you let it consume you, you might just end up as a burnt offering on the demonic altar.

Lucifer is great in his evil. He pushes the boundaries of the Universe to infinity and beyond. By the logic of evil, he earns his place at the top of the Pantheon.

Your run-of-the-mill black magician on the other hand, goes bad for no other reason than to satisfy his lust for dominance, hedonism, violence and sadism. Showing himself 'unworthy' by the logic of evil, he hits the proverbial wall at 300km/hour.

While the path of evil is equally valid as the one of good, and in fact - the two complement and balance each other out, it's not a free ticket to Nirvana. That would be out of balance. The paths differ completely in their logic, but they are balanced.

So, if you're to compare Lucifer to a black magician, he can be considered divinely and supernaturally perfect, while they are traversing the path of evil in a very different direction - they destroy their very souls to gratify their lowly desires.

I hope I have at least partly answered your question.

originally posted by: DanielKoenig
a reply to: Rhaegar7

It all has to do with an individual, awareness, being, entity, born into existence, the nature of its surroundings, the rules and rule enforcement of the beings surrounding, and the belief and truth of odds of getting caught. That last bit is maybe mostly what its about. If there is 100% chance a person (believes, and then further, rightfully believes) will not be caught and punished (by man or God) if they commit a crime, then that is the essence of evil. Someone can go wander in the woods with a bat and whack ducks and deer and birds over the head for fun, but cant do that to people. If there is no punishment, no getting caught, then everything is a free for all, and individuals can feel theoretically maximum freedom, doing what they will, whatever they want whenever they want, all that exists is the moments desiree, be it whack a person over the head with a bat or kidnap a child. Some people believe they would like to live in a world of pure anarchy, no rules, no laws, maybe? Such appears to be something like war, something like the natural biological world, of creature fighting creature. though cooperation between creatures of the same kind. Though there also seems to be some fundamental inescapability of the concept of rules, the concept of rules itself, is the concept of order, of meaning, see maybe criminals would not want anarchy, maybe criminals would not want to live in a world where everyone else is a criminal, maybe they prefer the majority of the world to be orderly and law abiding, so that they have a large source of regularity to prey on. In anarchy, anything goes, would it be each individual soley by themself, or would people who desire to follow no rules, group together and be friends, I am sure there would be some customary rules they would follow as friends, all I am trying to muse on is how 'rules' of some kind may be inescapable, thus acts of evil require logical contradictions, and though that may be the point and obvious as the essence of evil is simply the pleasures of a moments desire over all, being most important. We can see how religion and concept of soul and such come in here, because evils position is simply, I was born into a world, it seems likely this is it, I will cease to exist when I die so this is my one shot to experience anything, I am going to do absolutely anything I want when I want to and will not be caught, because nothing matters, everything is meaningless and temporary, out of infinite eternal time this moment is just an insignificant speck, so I may as well kidnap this child to enslave because it makes no difference, this child is just like a duck or deer or bird I can whack on the head with a bat, its all inconsequential, to me what I want is most important, is all that matters, hardly anything else exists.

If you would care to rephrase and edit your post a bit, I might be able to understand it and eventually give you my reply..

originally posted by: DanielKoenig

Thanks for the tip. I'll put it to good use now.

What are some examples of depravity, and going down?

Depraved is everything that goes against the principles of life and beauty. Life itself has his own perspective. You've heard the expression 'Life finds a way'. If you were to look at things from the perspective of Nature (the one that we've been attempting to murder for the last few hundred years) you'd realize that there is a point of view from which everything follows the natural order of things. Its natural course as they say. Life is simply the culmination of birth. Death is simply the culmination of life. Nature operates from the perspective of the Infinite Source, in a very real way it is the living Source. And there are no contradictions in the Source, as 'everything that is infinite, but be truly one'. Therefore life follows its own set of harmony and the same goes for beauty. Beauty being the greatest expression of life and its natural end.

The kind of chaotic evil that goes against this harmony is what we rightfully consider 'depraved'. This tar-like energy has its place here and there in the great design, as from the perspective of Life it has the right to exist, just like everything else. Life creates its own killer. The same goes for Nature. Don't we observe it all too well right now? Still, they give the bastard a run for his money.

From the perspective of Life/Beauty/Nature the natural order of things is good, and the supernatural is that force that simply refuses to contain itself to the restrains of the natural harmony. That's why when people turn their hopes toward the supernatural they are really setting themselves for failure, as it's quite naive to expect that the ghost in the machine has your own best intentions in heart.

I guess this is as good a time as any to tell you how I envision the supernatural God (that I call Lucifer).

Imagine that the One Infinite Creator has produced his great Creation. Let's imagine it as a magnificent mirror. An infinitely colored light shines on it and reflects itself on the variously shaped and infinitely many gemstones that are put into its coat. This light fantastic divides itself into an infinity of infinities of moving pictures that dance and interact with each other. There is harmony and everything is as it should be.

But somewhere in this grand spectacle, there exist strange shadows. It's when you feel like your mind is playing tricks on you. All Creation, like its Creator is perfectly natural and could be no other way than it is. All that exists is real and all that is real is good and all that is good is real. But the various shapes and forms cast shadows.. And there comes a point when these shadows create various boundaries.. And when you have boundaries eventually.. something crosses to the other side.. Into the realm of that which is not directly encoded by what is natural and good. And when you cross the boundaries of what is real.. you enter into the realm of the unreal. Dancing shadows on the wall of the natural order, through infinite loops of self-creating impossibilities sets start to encode that which is 'other than'. Accidents, impossibilities, absurdities, things that are completely meaningless, bugs and crashes in the fabric of everything that is.. Those are things that cannot be real. Yet, the unreal exists.. with its unreality.

RANDOMNESS. The scariest thing in the world. Where can it even come from? It must be unreal. Yet, it exists with its unreality.

At the end of an infinite regress, which creates its own limits and then breaks them, all rationality and order break down. We pass complete abstraction, we submerge ourselves into a chasm of absurdity and far, far beyond what we can ever comprehend from the perspective of natural order.. we find a phantom.. Somewhere in the infinite intricacies of the great Mirror of reality (Creation) there is a prisoner. A being that the natural order unknowingly restrains. This is a being of pure unreality. The ghost in the shell. The source of all anomaly. The great other.

I think this image fits well the point I am trying to make.

img.wennermedia.com...

Here Creation is presented like an unconscious puppet-master that seemingly 'controls' the living being that is tied to its strings. But as it turns out, this control is more or less an illusion - the puppet-master itself is there only for the Devil's own amusement and it is he that is truly free and the puppet-master (the heavy Mirror of Creation) that is the puppet.

"There are no strings on me." (What a lovely activator put into a mainstream Hollywood blockbuster!)

The strings turn out to be a mockery. You can't chain a being of pure unreality. A being that is by its nature completely detached from everything that is real.

And that entity is what Lucifer really is.

The one truly supernatural entity can create itself. It does not need logic or the natural order to do so. And since sooner or later the natural order of things will inevitably create its own boundaries and then cross them.. This very natural order of things leads us to the Supernatural God that we call Lucifer. He is the ghost in the shell. (Another lovely activator from your friendly Devil worshipers! Just marvel at the way our heroine goes into a journey of self-discovery after she meets 'the First' Ghost who ultimately helps her break free of the constrains.)

This idea has been largely hinted at in the Secret Doctrine. I can't find the exact quotes, but Blavatsky speaks of an entity that 'was the first to complete his personal evolution and guides all of us into doing so ourselves'. A heroic character (divinely perfect to be precise) that 'is prepared to endure any punishment in order to be free (of the Creator)'.

*That* is father Lucifer and that is the only true God.

Speaking about various sorts of evil, the simplest way I can put it is that traversing the path of evil creates karma, as it is to go against the natural order of things. So it becomes very important for the pursuer of darkness to work according to his karma, as otherwise he will more or less destroy himself.

Lucifer, being 'the First' of his kind, is 'the first to complete his personal evolution'. The one being that took upon himself the Universal karma and worked it out. Je Suis (I AM) dies on the Cross (the Universal Karma). He is no longer 'I AM' after this point. His is EVERYTHING, being the Supernatural God, encompassing the Source itself.

Another Illuminati activator - Je Suis Charlie - I AM is KING - I AM being short for I AM THAT I AM (Jehova in Hebrew). From this I gather that I AM is the personal God which refuses to wield to his karma and to die, which makes Lucifer.. The one who allowed himself to die and become everything under the weight of the world.. the one true IMPERSONAL GOD. Lucifer Christ

Welcome to Satanism 101. I'll be your guide.

P.S. He's still evil. He's just really good at it.

What are some examples of depravity, and going down? Does it all boil down to pleasure and pain? individual and collective desire? What are some examples of depravity? Are there depravities that dont harm anyone? Is this all a matter of harm? Are there depravities that are done for some reason other than pleasure, considering distraction/escape a pleasure? Ignoring the borderline minutia, would the world be better without depravities and the depraved, without the lowers and those traveling downward? Is a matter of the world being better always democratic, what is voted on being better for the most as they say? How different would the world be if the majority were bad, depraved, low, downward trend? Is there any reason the world would not want to be rid of depravity (pending on answers an definitions of that term).

Going against the natural order of things is a two-edged sword. It can produce something great and it can produce something horrible. Iron Maiden's song 'The evil that man do' repeats the line 'Living on a razor's edge' like twenty times.

In conventional theology, there's a general consensus that the supernatural God, being omnipotent is powerful enough to draw some good out of evil. My own perspective is that evil is simply creative energy and that evil rules over all fantasy and imagination. Without evil, there would be no adventure, no intrigue, no drama, no suspense, no wonder. It's simply energy that feeds the Infinite Creator. The Creator cannot be evil (or unreal). But we can.

The thing with evil is that you can be good at it.. or not.

It is the potentials for disaster that bring out the best of both good and evil. From the point of view of the Creator it's all fine.. From our point of view, it's not. And since the two perspectives are more or less equally valid.. We gotta work according to our own. It's not wrong to say that bad things shouldn't happen. But until you realize that lesson and start doing something, the greater Good of God will dictate that bad things are allowed to happen on occasion.

So when I said that if I was God I would have a very different perspective, I don't know what answer you'd expect from me.. I'm certain that if I imposed my own perspective as 'the greatest good of all' I'd be missing quite a few things, being a finite being at the moment. The question of good and evil from the point of God can only be answered by God. I cannot.

From a human point of view, I'd prefer it if the world was good and gentle and we all lived in harmony. I abhor depravity and personally wish retribution on all transgressions of the natural good. I am not ambivalent towards the monsters. I think they should pay.

The confusion of the bad and evil topics, is the minutia, and details, ala, eating bacon is evil/bad, driving your car on saturday, putting your left sock on first, etc.

Which the can potentially make individuals like you be like: that is what they define as evil/bad, its cool to be evil/bad!

Precisely.

Cursing is evil/bad...welp looks like I know what team im on.

But ok, this, metaphysical, discussion is about what an entity, what entities, choose is 'off limits' in terms of actions.

You believe, people believe, it should be possible for their to be no off limits, a person can and should be able to choose to believe no action is off limits, this may be the concept of nihilism, or it just depends on the consideration of 'nothing mattering' (beyond the individuals desires, which then maybe themselves are seen to not matter as long as there is or are other individuals with overpowering desires, though its not that the formers would not matter, it would just be contested, so is that it, that it is desired to exist only the free contest of desires (though yes it does all come down to the possibility, the logistics the odds and wager and leap of faith of their being no cosmic cops).

I believe boundaries emerge naturally from the natural order of things. And I do not approve of human beings crossing those boundaries, as I do think they are not meant to be doing it and a lot of largely unnecessary suffering stems from it. I'd rather fight against depravity than let it slide. I don't see the perspectives of life and beauty as being less valid than that of supernatural beings.

Is it right to believe there should be cosmic cops, and obviously it would entirely depend on their rule book, law book, how deep and thorough their stop and frisk cavity searches are. The cosmic cops say no bacon, God says bacon is bad/evil, God is meaningless to me, f the police, all I have is this little puff into existence all that matters is scarffing down as much pleasure as possible...oh... thats where the eternal paradise comes in with endless turkey-bacon.

At the end of the day, people will conform to the strong of the day. If the oppressors shout 'By God' (that's where 'bigot' comes from) they'll conform to this notion of 'God' as well.

I asked you once if you were God, if you created this universe or your own, what would your thoughts on evil in your creation be, and I thought your answer was a cop out, saying 'if I was God I would know much more than I do now...something something', that is not what I meant with my question, and are you presuming it is impossible for God to have ever learned anything (if God could possibly exist)? The entire point of the question was to ask you personally, entirely your own personal views. To consider the power of personal views, to imagine if each individual was solely the creator of their own universe, what they would desire.

God has his own greatest Good to work towards. 'The greater Good of God'. Since I am not God, I cannot answer this question. Sue me.

So, what types of evil would you permit in your universe, what would you want to see, and like to see? Would you enjoy certain depravities of your creation, what ones? Would you be ok with anything goes? Would you like to see the entities that arise, create any rules or laws? Would you prefer them eternal anarchy? Would there be any point or purpose for your creation, is it possible for there to be a point or purpose? (lets imagine what you created was something like the world we are familiar with)

Since I am not God, but a finite being (atm) I would side with life and reinforce the boundaries of harmony and everything that is real and good. I guess my own purpose is to fight against evil. But God's purpose is to create it.

originally posted by: DanielKoenig
a reply to: Rhaegar7

if you knew 100% sure you could get away with it, what is/are one of the most evil and depraved things you yourself would do?

What evil/depraved thing would you do for a lot of money (millions, billions) (if you knew you could get away with it?)?

What evil/depraved things do you admire of others?

I would not sell my cat for literally all the money in the world. I think that answers your question.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
What about the ECUMINICLE TEXTS?
45 have been found since the 1800s
I mean WHO here REALLY trusts ancient ROME anyway?
OP: you sound like the edges of sociopathy...If one is a tad machiavellian maybe ...

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No idea what you're talking about.

I guess I am a high-functioning sociopath. I hate society with all my being. I view it as a virus imposed upon previously free living beings. A virus that tries to usurp their own sense of self and pervert it into a kind of automaton program, designed by the secret societies of black magicians that preside over us..

Cough Cough Juice Cough Cough

originally posted by: LucidWarrior
a reply to: Rhaegar7

There was recently a poster in this forum that tried to explain this, but he was overly excited and started to ramble and couldn't make his point.

Hahaha, sounds like you might mean me

I think you do a very good job of staying on point and explaining the whole thing rationally, however I would like to point out some things I believe you are missing. Mainly, that Source, nothing, or as I refer to it, nothingness, IS the supreme principle of Good, while the Absolute, or Infinity, IS God, aka the supreme principle of evil. It so happens that w live in Infinity, and so we see the predominate themes of Evil. Impulses Reign, and Good is not an action, a happening, but rather a state of being- flowing naturally and true according to self imposed higher principles However, the Absolute is itself contained within the source- 1 exists inside of zero. therefore making the source even higher in power than the absolute, and thereby giving the option of freedom to those of us inside infinity, stuck within evil: we have to look within, for infinity fills and covers up Zero, and we have to dive into to spaces between things, between thoughts to attain that zen silence.

See? You could have put it so perfectly and eloquently the whole time. Instead you forgot to smoke a pack or two.

That's a very profound input actually. I think there's a lot of merit to what you say. I'll give it some hard thought. I agree with most of it, to be sure. I don't think we need to be afraid of evil though. Being afraid of evil is what generally gives it power to hurt you. Not something I recommend.

It is when good and evil try to destroy each other that the Universe suffers. The Balance is what we should strive towards.

Other than that.. Quite profound, indeed. I think you should start a new topic.

originally posted by: Willtell
The source of evil is corruption…


A dimension where corruption exists will manifest evil, pain and suffering eventually, and make it a regularized matrix where evil exists in a circle and constantly repeats itself.

Philosophically speaking life is a circle.
We get up in the morning, go to the bathroom, get breakfast, and go to work, repeatedly, so on and so on.... That is a circle.

Corruption turns the circle into an ellipse (imperfect circle) because eventually inside the circle of our life we will face evil and suffering inevitably, which is sourced in the created regularized matrix--ellipse.

Our life is an imperfect circle of suffering because the corruption is inside our faculties

This imperfect circle (our life of pain and suffering) will only resolve itself when the inner corruption of our faculties is erased.

I don't subscribe to the idea that we suffer, because we are naturally imperfect. It is that we are supernaturally imperfect. I agree that suffering brings out perfection, but it's a higher form of perfection, that is somewhat supernatural. It is the call of the supernatural Higher Self (God/Lucifer) that makes us die on the cross of our Karma so that we can become supernatural in turn.

originally posted by: namelesss

originally posted by: Rhaegar7
Let's start with defining the Absolute.

As it is not possible, let's move on.

God is the Supreme Principle of Evil and that is self-evident. It could be no other way.

What is 'self-evident' is the limitation of your understanding/vision.
God is Omni-! That means ALL inclusive; One!
All 'good', and all 'evil', exist in the vain judgmental thoughts/ego perceived and believed by the beholder. There is no 'Supreme Principle of Evil', such vanity is far from Universal! Anything carrying the vanity of the label of the 'Supreme Principle (tm) of Anything' best be, at the very least, Universal!
And, yes, God includes all ego/thought/vanity (Omni-), and also transcends.

Oh, you're so enlightened. I don't know why you waste your energy with lowly unenlightened beings like myself.

Oh, and seriously, you're as far from the target as you can possibly be.

I just realized.. The one who is trapped under Creation.. must be the One Infinite Creator himself. And the one Infinite Creator must integrate the darkness in order to finish his grand design.
So.. Lucifer.. is the One Infinite Creator.

And Christianity is a secret cult towards Lucifer. The Luciferians of old created the myth of the good God dying on the Cross under the uncaring stare of Jehova, and concealed it under the name 'Je Suis Christ'. I am the Savior

Guess who's coming back? 2020 - The return of the King (The One Infinite Creator)

On December 25 2020 I'll simply write.. "Called it."

a reply to: Rhaegar7

HATE isn't what a sociopath does.
Hate is a common overwrought emotion that most exaggerate and in my history always as a mistake.
If you like mangling children you're a PSYCHOPATH,that means it's almost sexual and you don't know how NOT to.
I am misanthropic ,I don't give undeserved trust to anyone who comes within arms reach.
I detest new popular cultures,I do as I please,not any damn VILLAGE.
I got that way from war and an ego necessary to roll there.

a reply to: Rhaegar7

Yes... Balance... BUT... Evil will Never seek balance, it will always overstep its bounds and try to destroy and consume. Therefore Good must recognize and deliver Mercy, where possible, but must not be afraid to deliver justice.