Special Counsel Mueller Impanels Washington Grand Jury in Russia Probe

a reply to: soberbacchus

If they did try to interfere in our elections, that is an act of war right?

Or do we do nothing?

We get rid of Trump. Check.

Then what?

Dont worry, I am sure the hawks in DC wouldnt think to make this into a profitable war or anything. Its not like that isnt the incentive here.

You get rid of Trump and gloat, and poor people like me go to die for it.

Unless you are telling me its only about Trump and the consequences of this are only limited to a lost election "made right".

I just need to trust my government more, the media, and career DC politicians as well as learn to choose based off my hatred of a person or the people that like him.

Who needs higher brain functions or the wisdom to look ahead?

Can you imagine the look on Trump voters faces!

Totally worth it, what ever it may be. Lets not even think about all the consequences of this. Surprises are great when they come from DC.

a reply to: TonyS

I guess you'll see what you want to see, rather than what actually is. Good for you!

originally posted by: Outlier13
a reply to: soberbacchus

Hey mate...whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel better be my guest. You watch too much TV.

I don't understand?

What does television have to do with your odd claim that when investigators interview witnesses it means they have no evidence?

a reply to: soberbacchus

He was talking to himself. Crime drama's don't make for good legal understanding.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: soberbacchus

If they did try to interfere in our elections, that is an act of war right?

It is an act of interference or influence in our free democratic elections.

An act of war is an act of war? Anyone can assign that to anything.

The Russian President just yesterday posted on FB that US Sanctions are an "Act of Economic War"

Or do we do nothing?

I don't get it..You believe that we should either do nothing or we should Nuke Russia?


Does that binary thinking make sense to you?

We get rid of Trump. Check.

Trump stays or goes depending on what the evidence reveals and Congresses willingness to impeach if the evidence is damning.

Then what?

Unfortunately Mike Pence becomes POTUS.

Unless you are telling me its only about Trump and the consequences of this are only limited to a lost election "made right".

Trump won by our system (interference, collusion, fair play, foul play doesn't matter)..
We don't do do-overs in US elections.

We do learn and guard future vulnerabilities in our electoral process.

Having a foreign government work to influence our elections should be something we work hard to understand and guard against...and anyone that helped them do it here in the US should be brought to justice.

That isn't a partisan view. That is an American view.

And we do investigate and prosecute or impeach where laws have been broken.

a reply to: soberbacchus

I agree.

We should work to stop influence in our elections if thats what happened.

Does the evidence support this theory though?

That would be step one to stopping it.

Find out if it happened and how.

If it did, thats an act of war. I dont think Russia would start beef with us out of love for Trump or the chance he is friendly towards Russia.

Dont be fooled for a second.

We should go to war if what you say is true. They will only do it again.

If they even did.

If not, lets be careful with this because that is step 2 in stopping it. A real consequence.

DC knows that. Do you?

originally posted by: tadaman
Does the evidence support this theory though?

Russia had every reason to support Trump over Clinton. Clinton would've been a continuation of Obama's policies both foreign and domestic. Russia couldn't have that happen.

Were votes changed? No. Pro-Trump propaganda was used during the election and efforts to infiltrate the Trump campaign and administration were made. This is seen with the DJT Jr meeting with the Russian lawyer and her efforts to repeal the Magnitsky Act. There were nearly a dozen people in this meeting and the Mueller investigation is probably going to indict a couple of the people that were there.

None of this implicates Trump though, but his choice of cabinet members has been very questionable. Michael Flynn was forced to resign for failing to disclose foreign ties/payments. Rex Tillerson made Exxon billions by working closely with the Russian government, even receiving the highest honor available to a civilian from the Russian government.

It's mostly agreed that there's a lot of smoke surrounding the Trump administration in regards to Russia but not a lot of fire.

Trump seems to have a strong desire to want to 'reset relations' with Russia. Despite their actions in Ukraine and the Crimea and their totalitarian actions against minorities and the press.

a reply to: links234

Well, thank you for your civility.

Here is the thing, I dont see anything but predictions, guesses, conjecture and faith.

I cant be as convinced as everyone else based off that.

I am still ringing from the past lies that were forced on us so as to sell wars and propaganda without anything more than what is offered now.

I still havent had the fact explained away that Seth Rich is the original leaker of the DNC emails and he was killed in a blatant political assasination.

There was no Russian hack. The evidence shows otherwise.

That is an elephant in this room.

How Russia ties in or not doesnt explain his murder away. It doesnt clear the DNC from being a dangerous political entity now. One that tried to influence an election in every illegal way possible and killed to keep doing that.

Lets say Russia is guilty. Does that mean Seth didnt leak? Does that mean he wasnt murdered by the DNC for whistle blowing on their corruption?

No.

I know better. The timeline shows that the Russia story was made after all this already happened.

Its obvious propaganda.

I can not ignore this. I know once all is said and done, if we tell DC we think Russia committed an act of war as this is, that they will make a war for profit and people like me will die in the thousands for it.

Or no war. We sanction Russia into starvation and decline just so the DNC doesnt look bad, or so Trump does.

I was raised better. I cant lie to myself.

I am only a Trump supporter on ATS. In the real world, I am myself. I need evidence of things.

I dont trust anyone.

a reply to: Xcathdra

news source

Washington (CNN)Justice Department Special Counsel Robert Mueller has issued grand jury subpoenas related to Donald Trump Jr.'s 2016 meeting with a Russian lawyer at Trump Tower, according to a person familiar with the matter.

a reply to: Xcathdra

This is nothing more than a "witch hunt"... Mueller is an establishment RINO who has in his team lawyers that have always sided with the Clintons. What Mueller and his team will do is look at every past business between Trump or anyone in his team and any Russian business. If they find anything, which of course they will because Trump has done business with people from all over the world, they will use it as an argument that "there is collusion"... However, the fact that Mueller has several conflicts of interest, such as Mueller being bff of Comey. Despite the fact that Comey himself stated quite readily that he leaked the story to a friend in a news paper so that a "special counsel could be appointed" is not being looked at as "corruption and collusion". The fact that those in Mueller's team have all been "Clintonites", and have given a lot of money to the Clintons' campaigns is not being viewed as "collusion and corruption"...

BTW, President Trump's extended vacation is occurring at the same time that there will be mayor renovations being done in the White House. Is it possible that the Obama team bugged the White House when they found out that Trump was to become POTUS? is that why President Trump is having an extended vacation while this is happening? Is that why there has been so many "leaks" from the White House?

This story is starting to sound a little shaky.
Conflicting reports of a new grand jury vs the use of one that was already set up.

A grand jury based in Alexandria, Va., began issuing subpoenas in the Flynn case months ago. Mr. Mueller took over the investigation in May and assembled a team of prosecutors in an office in downtown Washington. Mr. Mueller has not impaneled a special grand jury, the lawyers involved in the case said, and has decided instead to use one of several grand juries that regularly sit in Washington.

www.nytimes.com...

oops.

NYT vs WSJ vs CNN - not a great choice.

a reply to: soberbacchus

I'm not sure why we didn't understand or guard against it to begin with. Obama clearly knew how it's done when he sent members of his own electoral team off to influence the elections in other countries.

originally posted by: bknapple32
Mueller drops this bomb AS SOON as Trump starts his vacay... . Effing brilliant

What are you insinuating? That the inquiry is all about politics and optics?

a reply to: links234

The problem is that "everyone has had businesses with the Russians"... Case on point, the Obama administration, and Hillary have had businesses done with the Russians....but of course, that is not grounds for "collusion and corruption"... Only when President Trump, or anyone in his team has had business dealing with the Russians is it seen as "collusion and corruption"... The swamp wasn't drained fast enough...

a reply to: soberbacchus

Read his response to my initial post. He is equating an eyewitness testimony to corroboration of facts. Since this entire case is based purely on fabricated speculation driven by nothing more that false accusations and an over abundance and boy do I mean an over abundance of complete media hype bullshlt...there has never once been ANY evidence of collusion.

Therefore they have zero hard evidence. In lieu of hard evidence they are hoping...praying...that some testimony from someone is going to somehow implicate Trump within some conspiracy. It will equate to Comey's statements of, "I felt"...or "I didn't trust"...etc. This is not evidence.

Like I and many others have been saying. Where is the hard evidence? Tapes, videos, documented and clear line back door transactions which clearly show collusion?

Having someone make a statement will amount to absolutely nothing. They have nothing. One last time...they have nothing.

But hey...whatever they can do to take the light off of the actual facts that Hillary Clinton deleted 33,000 e-mails. That Huma Abedin was sending classified information to her pedophile husband's laptop. That Hillary Clinton has all the ties to the Russians documented in public record. That Loretta Lynch was the one approving visas for Russian spies. That Bill Clinton making a visit to Lynch on the tarmac was a social call. Are you REALLY this naive? Really?

Nothing to see there. You lefties continue to show what a massive mountain of hypocrites you have always been.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The mood of the electorate? Welcome to Italy. The electorate is clueless and will most likely sit out the next cycle. And, dependng on who runs, they may well sit out 2020.

a reply to: DanteGaland

Well, I thought is was pretty obvious for all to see.

Guess I was wrong about that.

a reply to: Kali74

Do you remind me what happened to Americans of Japanese origin in the United States of ww2? p.s. This is Louise Muller, she lives in Russia and hates everything Russian. Surname is not all that they have in common, they are the same blood of blue. Like Philip Zack USA (letters with ulcer) and Anatoly Zak RF (burned alive people, club limping horse)

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: Xcathdra

The mood of the electorate? Welcome to Italy. The electorate is clueless and will most likely sit out the next cycle. And, dependng on who runs, they may well sit out 2020.

I think you are underestimating the mood of the people as well. If the left tries to remove Trump they are going to cause a massive backlash.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Clinton was impeached but never removed

Clinton was impeached for not giving a straight answer to a question the Grand Jury had no business asking. The Senate refused to convict him. He was never removed because he was never found guilty of a high crime or misdemeanor.

and there was verifiable evidence of criminal wrong doing.

It is not a criminal offense for a consenting adult to have oral sex with another consenting adult.

Its one of the reasons he faced legal issues when he left office, including being fined and losing his law license.

He did not 'lose' his law license, though he might have had he not voluntarily given it up. And his Grand Jury testimony was 100% of the issue. He has been eligible to apply for reinstatement of his license since 2006, but has not done so.

The problem is powerful groups are doing all they can to bring this President down for no other reason than he threatens the status quo.

The only thing about the status quo that this President is threatening is (1) how is anybody ever going to trust America again and (2) where are all the entrenched moneymen going to put all the loot that Trump is stuffing into their (and his) pockets.