Proving Spontaneity of Post-Impact WTC Towers Collapse

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: kyleplatinum
a reply to: neutronflux

Two, windows blown out of the lobby Three, broken glass everywhere.

Wow, I had to stop right here... This is crystal clear knowledge and has been since day one.
There was definitely windows blown out of the lobby and glass everywhere, including heavy duty wall tiles broken off the walls. Videos clearly show this.

Please wake up.

He is wide awake, as in eyes wide shut. He is simply in denial of facts.

The claim is a fire ball from the elevator shafts. Sorry you don’t like what is the true source of the”explosion”.

Things not answered by you....

Funny that Rodriguez’s first claim was rumbles, like furniture being moved. Not explosions.

God bless the soul of the person that was burnt by the jet fuel that ran down the elevator shaft. A fire ball would melt skin. A demolitions blast that cuts steel would have created demolitions shrapnel that would have created lacerations. An over pressure event that would rupture ear drums.

Two or three more documented false arguments by you....




For a detonation of an an explosive capable of cutting steel, please explain...

The detonation whould still have caused soot and a fire ball.

One, the sound of detonation on video.

Four, people injured from the pressure wave with ruptured ear drums.
Five, shrapnel damaged that should have broken anything glass.
Six, shrapnel damaged to soild objects.
Seven, the poor soul that was burnt at the elevator would have had severe lacerations from shrapnel. As in like a grenade detonated in from of them.
Eight, demolitions shrapnel would have caused severe injuries and been recovered from the injured, the dead, and with human remains.


Are you saying there was no chance that a jet the tore away core columns and floor slabs did not creat a path to the elevator shafts?

Or that spilled fuel finds the lowest spot.

Or the fire ball explosion when the jet hit thet tower did not find its way down ruptured elevator shafts.

Or the jet impacts did not push pieces of broken floor slabs down the shafts.

And you still have to answer to how a high energy explosive device detonates without a fireball, and produces no shrapnel....

a reply to: Salander

Just my conclusions based on the 'earliest' verbal evidence from Mr Rodriguez:

He heard a rumble followed very shortly afterward by another that was more like an explosion (elevator doors blown out, severely burned man etc etc). He and his coworkers were in the basement approx 1000' from the impact point so the vibration of the plane impact conducted through the steel columns of the building (the initial rumble) reached the basement 1-2 seconds prior to the audible sound propagating through the air. Atomized fuel ignited in air (fuel/air explosion), if propagating at less than mach 1, would arrive in the basement area even longer after the 'rumble'. Simply because the speed of sound is proportional to the density of the medium.

Workers in the basement would have no idea that it was a plane strike until they had left the basement and got the word from others who were at ground level. Mr Rodriguez's actions on the day deserve great merit but I feel he's been trying to capitalize on it ever since by making his story progressively more exciting over the years.

Whatever was the source of that explosion in the basement, it had no bearing on the destruction of the building as the ultimate collapse progressed down from the top where the plane hit.

Just my interpretation of all I've seen of course.

a reply to: kyleplatinum



Rodriguez was in BLG 1 the first hit, the North Tower, above graphic shows impact position of aicraft relative to the elevation of the building struck and the core as well.

Now I posted links to the B25 bomber crash into the Empire State Building a 16 ton when fully layden plane that had a max speed of 275 mph and only carried 975 gallons of fuel when full.

The fuel did not burn up on impact in a building that was not open plan it caused fires over four floors.

Upon impact, the plane’s jet fuel exploded, filling the interior of the building with flames all the way down to the 75th floor and sending flames out of the hole the plane had ripped open in the building’s side.

While the 78th and 79th floors bore the brunt of the damage, one of the B-25's engines fell down an elevator shaft and set off a major fire in the basement. The other engine hurtled across the building and tore through seven walls before emerging from the 33rd Street side of the tower. The debris crashed through the roof of a thirteen-story building across the street where another fire erupted. Other heavy wreckage, including the landing gear, also caused damage to the Empire State and nearby buildings while Stan Lomax reportedly saw part of a wing catapulting towards Madison Avenue.

An engine snapped an elevator cable while at least one woman was riding in the elevator car. The emergency auto brake saved the woman from crashing to the bottom, but the engine fell down the shaft and landed on top of it. Quick-thinking rescuers pulled the woman from the elevator, saving her life.

So very similar events to 9/11

Also can you imagine if we had the internet back then if people read this below.

The body of the Navy hitch-hiker Albert Perna was found two days after the crash at the bottom of an elevator shaft

How many conspiracies would be built around that fact.

Just because you think something can't happen doesn't mean it didn't or wont.

a reply to: wmd_2008

There was not one SINGLE visible indication of ANY kind of burning, fire or incendiary-type explosion in the lobby area. The complete and utter fabrication about jet fuel having "exploded" in the lobby is thoroughly nullified by the clear visual evidence on the footage of the fire-crews in the tower one lobby.

Just because YOU think something DID happen, doesn't mean it's reality.

Also can you imagine if we had the internet back then if people read this below.

Whoa! I just had my mind blown!

I always thought I did have internet in 2001.

Mandela Effect is real!

a reply to: kyleplatinum

Ah Gruber .......

First arriving fire units report two bodies on fire in lobby. All the windows blown out

www.youtube.com...

Burned victims in lobby

Firefighter John Morabito of ladder 10, which is just 200 yards from the north tower.
“Just inside the front entrance, Morabito found two victims of the fireball. A man, already dead, was pushed against a wall, his clothes gone, his eyeglasses blackened, his tongue lying on the floor next to him. The other was a woman, with no clothes, her hair burned off, her eyes sealed.

“The woman, she sat up. I’m yelling to her, ‘Don’t worry, we’re going to help you,’” Morabito said. “She sat up and was trying to talk, but her throat had closed up. She died right there.

Firefighters finding burnt elevator with people inside

Firefighter Peter Blaich
As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about I didnt recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. Thats when Lieutenant Foti said oh, thats the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if youre camping and you drop a kerosene lamp.

The same thing happened to the elevators in the main lobby. They were basically blown out. I dont recall if I actually saw people in there.
What got me initially in the lobby was that as soon as we went in, all the windows were blown out, and there were one or two burning cars outside. And there were burn victims on the street there, walking around. We walked through this giant blown-out window into the lobby.

Have numerous people burned by fireball of burning jet fuel

.Brian Reeves, a 34-year-old security guard, was nearly killed while making the rounds in the lobby of 1 World Trade Center on September 11. He started to run after hearing an explosion that he said sounded like a missile, but he was knocked down by a fireball that roared down the elevator shaft.

Reeves suffered third-degree burns to 40 percent of his body before he was able to pat out the flames. He was one of 20 critically-injured patients rushed to New York Presbyterian’s burn unit that day.

Vasana) Mutuanot was in the lobby of Tower One when she heard the first explosion. Thinking it was a bomb like the terrorist attack in 1993, she turned to run, looking over her shoulder as flames leaped from a freight elevator shaft cooking her back and legs and right cheek. "It was a fireball with sand and heat, like a hurricane of fire," she said.

Mututanont ran out of the building then fell after flying glass sliced through a tendon in her leg. A wall of fire followed her outside.
“Swept to my back from my feet up and then I see fire all over, in my hair, also. A lot of people just blew away, you know, like that.”

a reply to: kyleplatinum

Funny how you cherry pick facts?

You?

There was not one SINGLE visible indication of ANY kind of burning, fire or incendiary-type explosion in the lobby area

You never answered to the fact that high energy explosives or cutting charges that damage steel do create a flame front, high temperatures, burning, and soot

So what explosives were planted, why, and what damage was caused to help initiate failure in the structural steel?

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
Europhysics knows very little about
certain areas of physics or they are
playing along.

How does an office fire 93 stories
up cause a spontaneous collapse
of all 110 stories in 10-11 sec ?

It's really getting to be so evident
the OS is poo.Its the religious like
belief in our universities and media
that is holding back the truth.

It seems we always debate the how and the more important who/why barely gets a line or two...lol

The problem with control det is there are so many uncontrolled and unknown variables involved with two planes hitting the towers at different and unpredictable times and locations on the towers to have it come off perfectly as it would needed to do. We also spiral crazily away from ockham's razor as we start to add in all the variables for a control det to happen such as logistics and a very large number of people involved over a good deal of time to have it all come together perfectly in the end, and still perfect to this day.

Your 11 seconds is easy to explain... Have you noticed that the second tower actually collapsed first? All that was needed to start the collapse for both towers was to have the compromised floors to finally give way from all the weight above them. At that point there was no stopping as the weight above very quickly started to accelerate every foot to the point of creating a massive force pulverizing anything in its downward path. Within seconds that downward moving weight reached 50% of terminal velocity and continued as the resistance of the lower floors became totally insignificant to the forces coming down. Those forces were far greater and quicker than what any controlled det could have accomplished. Now back to the second tower, it went first because it had a good number of more floors above the impact point and so a lot more weight to get the ball moving. If you think we could plan that then we are talking omnipresent type powers..

In either case it doesn't answer the who/why at all, so I'm not sure the "how" is really that important in all this..

a reply to: GBP/JPY


Nice Apache there

a reply to: Pilgrum


The explosion in the basement below Rodriguez happened just moments before he became aware of the airplane strike.

It would be interesting to know if being in the basement they could even feel the aircraft strike 1000 feet above?

originally posted by: Salander

The explosion in the basement below Rodriguez happened just moments before he became aware of the airplane strike.
It would be interesting to know if being in the basement they could even feel the aircraft strike 1000 feet above?

You sure about that statement?
It implies that he knew it was a plane strike before anyone told him about it which suggests foreknowledge of what was going to happen.
OR
The explosion happened sometime after the plane strike and before him being informed of what it was that caused the 'rumble' he experienced.

Neither option there points to the explosion preceding the actual plane strike.

Sound vibrations propagate very quickly through solid masses like steel columns. The entire building would have vibrated like a massive low frequency tuning fork after such a collision and, in the basement area it would feel like an earth tremor somewhat like you'd get from a distant earthquake (like heavy vehicles driving on a rough road).

originally posted by: Pilgrum

originally posted by: Salander

The explosion in the basement below Rodriguez happened just moments before he became aware of the airplane strike.
It would be interesting to know if being in the basement they could even feel the aircraft strike 1000 feet above?

Sound vibrations propagate very quickly through solid masses like steel columns. The entire building would have vibrated like a massive low frequency tuning fork after such a collision and, in the basement area it would feel like an earth tremor somewhat like you'd get from a distant earthquake....

Or, as in the original statement by Rodriguez?

Collapsed Trade Center towers still dangerous

www.cnn.com...

"We heard a loud rumble, then all of a sudden we heard another rumble like someone moving a whole lot of furniture," Rodriguez said.

a reply to: neutronflux

So what explosives were planted

Don't know.

and what damage was caused to help initiate failure in the structural steel?

Why assume it was to help initiate failure in the structure steel?
How about cutting off key access/exit points? Obstruct rescue efforts? Conceal evidence/prevent tampering? ect...

a reply to: Pilgrum


Yes, Rodriguez repeated the point that the explosion in the basement happened before the plane struck the building.

Put yourself in the same situation, down in the basement with other coworkers and telephones. Can you imagine how quickly the news would travel in the building once the plane struck?

a reply to: Salander

My point is that he couldn't know anything other than the 'rumbles' he heard & felt until someone told him what the source of it was (IE the plane strike) so you can forget about precision in regard to timing. Also I see no mention of phone conversations in his statement during the panic that followed so any such discussion was also after the plane strike and the only definite fact is that the 'rumble' preceded the 'explosion' and both preceded him learning what caused it all.

originally posted by: kyleplatinum
a reply to: neutronflux

So what explosives were planted

Don't know.

and what damage was caused to help initiate failure in the structural steel?

Why assume it was to help initiate failure in the structure steel?
How about cutting off key access/exit points? Obstruct rescue efforts? Conceal evidence/prevent tampering? ect...

Again, if the structure steel was cut there would be shrapnel. Cite were their is any evidence of demolitions shrapnel. Especially those burnt by the jet fuel.

The argument is there is no proof of soot, fire, or heat damage by you? The question is; what high energy explosives capable of cutting structural steel was used, but did not create a flame front, fire ball, soot, and high temperatures in the form of fire?

Can you name a high energy explosive that cuts steel, but doesn’t create a flame front, fire ball, burns the metal, and /or creates soot/ash/burn products.

Thanks for you providing a false account of my question.

You are the one that put yourself into a logic pit.....

a reply to: kyleplatinum

And you have not answered what a rumbling in the basement has to do with the collapse that started some time after the witnessesed rumbling. A collapse on video evidence that shows it started from the top of the building down. From the outer columns inward.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: Salander

My point is that he couldn't know anything other than the 'rumbles' he heard & felt until someone told him what the source of it was (IE the plane strike) so you can forget about precision in regard to timing. Also I see no mention of phone conversations in his statement during the panic that followed so any such discussion was also after the plane strike and the only definite fact is that the 'rumble' preceded the 'explosion' and both preceded him learning what caused it all.

Have you any thoughts as to why the 911 Commission would take the Rodriguez testimony in secret, and why his testimony would be excluded from the final report?

a reply to: Salander

He wasn't the only exclusion. Over 1200 witnesses gave evidence to the commission, only 160 of those were conducted publicly and many interviews were not included in the final report. Perhaps his 'evolving' story and self-promotion made him an unreliable witness in the eyes of the interviewers.

For example, his initial mention of a 'rumble like furniture being moved' evolved over the years into 'we hear 'BOOM!' An explosion so powerful and so loud that push us upward in the air coming from below!'

originally posted by: Salander

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: Salander

My point is that he couldn't know anything other than the 'rumbles' he heard & felt until someone told him what the source of it was (IE the plane strike) so you can forget about precision in regard to timing. Also I see no mention of phone conversations in his statement during the panic that followed so any such discussion was also after the plane strike and the only definite fact is that the 'rumble' preceded the 'explosion' and both preceded him learning what caused it all.

Have you any thoughts as to why the 911 Commission would take the Rodriguez testimony in secret, and why his testimony would be excluded from the final report?

Funny if the testimony was secret that Rodriguez is able to talk about it? And it’s funny you claim an all controlling murderous government, yet Rodriguez is freely walking around. So by your logic in the context of a all controlling murderous government; if Rodriguez was telling the truth, wouldn’t the government have silenced Rodriguez long ago?