Nicene Creed

a reply to: Raggedyman



All you do when you try to insult Mohammed (saws) is prove you have no possible way to refute me and are resorting to word of mouth traditions that are a-historical much of the time out of anger at my knowledge of your religion being greater than yours', because it's your religion and I know it better I get that.

I doubt your knowledge of the Qur'an is greater than mine though so maybe step to me when you are equally knowledgeable about mine.

I am not obligated to prove anything either way as this thread isn't about God's Messenger saws and word of mouth over 200 years ago is hardly reliable testimony.

You are more burdened with proving it is true because you brought it up.

Why don't you do that.

reply to Raggedymens

If you have no way to refute my exposure of your fallacious theology which factually contradicts the teachings of Jesus pbuh why would you remain a Christian?

If it was possible to refute me you would.

Nobody can.

I just use the words of the Messiah pbuh refuting me is, in this instance if I only quote what he says, refuting Jesus pbuh.

I don't think you are willing to go there so again why do you believe in that which you can't defend?

All the time you insult anyone who is just plain smarter than you and I don't think you even realize it.

It's ALL you do. From my experience, and you are very vocal but light on knowledge.


I will put it more plainly:

Why do you believe that you are a disciple of someone whose teachings you either don't know or disagree with, the only possibility because factually speaking Jesus pbuh refutes the notion of Trinity in many ways?

Never supports it.

So you can insult me or anyone who you disagree with but just know:

Jesus pbuh agrees with what I am saying, is who SAID IT FIRST.

Oppose me all you want...

''I never knew you"

Is something you should prepare for hearing.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

I didn't trash God or Jesus pbuh. Because they are not the Trinity.

What you do not understand is that God nor Jesus is the trinity because that is your theological understanding.

My theological understanding is far different that your understanding.

As Jesus was preparing to be restored to His former place as the celestial Son of The Most High El, He revealed to His Apostles that another representative of God would then take His place on this earth forever. Now forever in this case means till the end of this creation, of course.

The Muslims claim that this replacement [comforter] was Muhammad but the apostle John declares that it is not Muhammad but is that celestial Spirit that is God.

John_14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John_14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, [not Muhammad] whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

By this we believe our scriptures have told us that the prophet Joel told us this very thing when he declared ---

Joe 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled soon after Jesus was put to death ---------

Acts 2:1-4
(1) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
(2) And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
(3) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
(4)And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

There are some who say that this was only for the Jews but Joel tells us it is for the entire human race who will accept this gift. Joel is correct as we are told in the scriptures that all men are born into one Spirit and the gentiles grafted onto the vine.
What is the purpose of this outpouring of the Spirit of God?

1Corinthians 12:1-13
(1) Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
(2)Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
(3) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
(4) Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
(5) And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
(6) And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
(7) But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
(8) For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
(9) To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
(10) To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
(11) But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
(12) 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

You can now understand that that the Holy Spirit was given to the entire human race to build the church and keep it as Jesus would want. Does that mean the Father and Son are diminished? Not in the least does it even apply to that idea. This is the Triune God Head. This is the Christian Trinity which are the tools that Jesus gave the church as a means to control evil. There is but one Holy Spirit with many weapons to guard the congregations of Christ Jesus. The Trinity is Spirit and not an entity as most are misled.

The mistake that most critics generally make in their disagreement of the trinity is that they regard the third source of the God head as an entity such as “The Begotten Son Jesus” is declared. But once it is shown, by our scriptures, that the third part of the Christian God is His Spirit which is poured out upon all flesh, then it is shown that we are not understanding that Spirit as terrestrial but that Spirit is that which is the substance of The Most High El.

Now prior to this outpouring of the Spirit upon the human race there was no trinity of the God Head given to the Adamic race. In light of this understanding this was not a creed of men that determined Trinity, but was "The Most High EL" who gave the gift of His Spirit to mankind and was first shown to the Jews and then the Gentiles. This is not an entity as you might imagine but is a Spirit from God. Just as no one can openly show God, this is then a matter of theology.

a reply to: Disturbinatti


The Trinity is completely Pagan.
The Jewish God is a 4 fold expression: Yod He Vah He.


And a 5 fold expression when referred to in the plural, Elohim.


6 is the number of man. It's represented as a cube. It is the box that Osiris was tricked into.


When unfolded, it's the cross that Jesus was nailed to.


And, that "Christ", The Son of Man, popped out of!

a reply to: windword


Yes, when I said it was common in Egypt that was basically what I was saying, although probably you just didn't read every message so I am not criticizing you for concurring just agreeing with you.

It is Egypt and India where this idea likely blossomed first and 4 Xtians in Egypt no doubt, certainly not Asia, not 7 Churches of Revelation Asia.

Alexandria probably.

My educated guess is Philo's Logos and Sophia became the other 2 parts of the 'Trinity.'

I don't think Philo would have approved though he was staunchly Monotheistic.

a reply to: windword


I do like geometry too so thanks for the pictures. I wear an Octagram/Rub el Hizb myself.

Which makes a cube and is the blueprint for many Mosques and yes I know all about Saturn's hexagon and cube symbolism that is floating around.

It's just two squares at the end of the day.

I actually like it because it represents 888 and that's Gematria in Greek for Jesus Christ pbuh, if I am not mistaken.

It goes well with another symbol I use called the Jerusalem Cross, not crucifix, the flag De Buillion flew before Saladin took back Jerusalem and showed the Europeans what mercy looked like.

Because both are based on 4 and I place the Octagram over the cross to remind me at all times of what my people are being forced to endure, lack of basic human rights and freedoms, in Palestine.

a reply to: Disturbinatti


Technically, the Trinity can't exist, as it's only 2 dimensional. There is no 2 dimensional thing that can exist in our reality. What is missing, lacking or purposefully omitted from the Christian Trinity is "CHRIST", there is only "Me, myself and I, or as the Beetles put it, "I, Me, Mine".

All through the day
I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine
All through the night
I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine
Now they're frightened of leaving it
Everyone's reading it
Comin' on strong all the time
All through the day
I, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
All I can hear
I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine
Even those tears
I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine
No-one's frightened of playing it
Everyone's saying it
Flowing more freely than wine
All through the day
I, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
I, me, me, mine
All I can hear
I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine
Even those tears
I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine
No-one's frightened of playing it
Everyone's saying it
Flowing more freely than wine
All through your life
I, me, mine

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
Matthew 7:21 NRSV

Concerning Self Deception

21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'lord, lord,' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does THE WILL OF MY FATHER in Heaven...."

Some believe "lord" is equal to "God" in Biblical context, it is deception as YHVH is translated Lord for this purpose exactly. This is self deception only if you know.

22. "...On that day many will say to me, lord, lord, did we not prophecy IN YOUR NAME, and do many deeds of power in your NAME?

It's one thing to do something in the Spirit of Christ, pbuh.

Another to in his NAME. Hashem is a Jewish word for God meaning "The Name/Shem."

Men of renown actually translates from "Men of Hashem", David, the Nephilim, Israelites are described using this term that means also "renown, glory."

Jesus pbuh wants the glory to be the ''Father", Our Father's. Not his.

23. "...Then I will declare to them, I never knew you, go away from me you evil doers."

What makes this self deception is it's in the Bible and totally ignored.

It's not ignored, and the Mathew 7.21 reminds us of the importance of doing the will of the Father. Actions speaking louder then words.Right intent, and right action are found in much of the Perennial Philosophy.

I believe even most civil laws are based on actions not beliefs.

I've seen humble souls do much good for others, specifically not wanting it mentioned, only for the sake of good.Believers, not looking for kudos of any sort, simply doing the right thing because it is right. These actions have ranged from minor to major assistance for others.

Even just the gospels can be considered to record Jesus instructions for us to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yet you continue, to paint belief in the Nicene Creed as a having more authority then the New Testament.That's a stumbling block.

In the past perhaps there may have been a stronger case for that. Illiteracy, language barriers, and vast distances may have made it a challenge to personally study the scriptures. Now, not so much.

a reply to: dffrntkndfnml


How can you say it is not ignored when it factually is?

"Worship HIM WITH ALL YOUR HEART."

It seems apparent you are simply ignoring statements made by the Messiah pbuh that contradict your unlearned opinions.

Do you know what a fact is?

Jesus pbuh didn't ask to be deified but was.

Again how is that not ignoring a clear statement like "The Lord OUR God is ONE God worship Him with all your heart?"

Your rationalizating is disturbing because it's right there in front of you, proof, and just because you can't admit "I am wrong."

But it IS ignored, he IS worshipped and you have nothing, as usual, to support your opinion.

a reply to: windword


Technically it can't exist is true.

I will add another reason though.

Because God created math and math demands 2=2, 3=3, etc.

3 can not be 1 in any realistic way and it is like saying God violates His own natural ordinances.

Besides that Jesus pbuh plain refutes the possibility of the premise of multiplicity in The Deity, God.

Christians don't care about facts, is painfully obvious.

Kind of like... lying.

It is if you say "Bible says Jesus is God."

Or "Trinity is God."

Who is Trinity???

You can go to a Biblical search engine, type it in and see it doesn't exist is made up by priests later on.

a reply to: Disturbinatti

Clearly we have different perspectives on this.

I understand that you disagree with the Nicene Creed and the idea of the Trinity.

Who other then you is saying that belief is more authoritative the New Testament?

Lol, Disturbinatti it's fine.I don't mind being wrong and will own up to my mistakes.Faith=/=Fact.Godspeed.

originally posted by: Disturbinatti
a reply to: windword


Technically it can't exist is true.

I will add another reason though.

Because God created math and math demands 2=2, 3=3, etc.

3 can not be 1 in any realistic way and it is like saying God violates His own natural ordinances.

Besides that Jesus pbuh plain refutes the possibility of the premise of multiplicity in The Deity, God.

Christians don't care about facts, is painfully obvious.

Kind of like... lying.

It is if you say "Bible says Jesus is God."

Or "Trinity is God."

Who is Trinity???

You can go to a Biblical search engine, type it in and see it doesn't exist is made up by priests later on.

God is love, to be love God has to be more than individual. Love has to be expressed

www.themeetinghouse.com...

This explains why christians accept the Trinity, the evidence, except you dont want our evidence, you are here to show hate not look for an explanation

Christians unlike Muslims accept the Trinity.
Its that simple, get over it, dont be an idiot.


Please tell me why you think the "creed" is bigger than scripture, what leads you to this conclusion

a reply to: Raggedyman

Love has to be expressed

Love without expression is worthless. Expression is the 4th leg that is missing from the Trinity. Expression is a manifestation of love. It's the manifestation that is missing from the Trinity. Because, 2 dimensionality only exist in thought, not actions or results.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Raggedyman

Love has to be expressed

Love without expression is worthless. Expression is the 4th leg that is missing from the Trinity. Expression is a manifestation of love. It's the manifestation that is missing from the Trinity. Because, 2 dimensionality only exist in thought, not actions or results.

Why do you bother Windy
Its pointless with you

We disagree, I get it, there is no valid point to preach at me what you dont know.

If you took the time to go to the link I provided, undertook to understand the information and then countered, then I would get it
But to say, summarising "Love without expression is worthless" is stupid in context of your lack of information.
Stupid because I provided the information and you chose to remain ignorant

Love without expression is worthless, OBVIOUSLY.... God is LOVE, expressed in the TRINITY
So much love that He, God wants to express His love by enlarging the Trinity to include Humanity.
You are trying to make love an identifiable character, its a verb.
The Trinity loves, creates, loves the created, before the created it loved among itself.

John 1:12
but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name

That means CO HEIRS, in Gods Kingdom.
Men women children, all become the sons of God, inheriting what the Father has, we become just like Jesus.
Your cant comprehend what you dont understand. There is no difference between what you think and a Muslim does, because you are limited to a finite capacity in an infinite world

a reply to: Disturbinatti
The Hebrew for "The Lord" (Adonai) does not appear in Deuteronomy 6:4,5, it should also not appear in any translation of Mark 12:29. There's plenty of evidence that those who made Greek translations and copies of the Christian Greek Scriptures (a.k.a. the New Testament) replaced God's name with the Greek for "lord" (kurios) many times (in the hundreds where the original Greek manuscripts still used God's name throughout their text just like old fragments of the Septuagint, a translation of the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek, show). This is pure deception, it does not say "The Lord" or "the LORD" in either Deuteronomy 6:4,5 or Mark 12:29. So why do people keep pretending it does (including the Divine Name King James Bible that I quoted, that simply adds God's name but still leaves "the Lord" there)? You also conflated "The Lord" with God's name in a similar manner as the Divine Name King James Bible does by using "The Lord (YHVH)" which is not that different from the DNKJB's "The Lord (Jehovah...)". God's name does not mean "the Lord" and cannot be honestly translated to "the Lord" (or "the LORD"), even more so when there already is a Hebrew word (Adonai) for that that does not appear in the verses where the translators dishonestly do this (especially bible translations that were made after the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls).

4 “Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
5 You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.

That's what it really says. There are no points rewarded for misquoting the bible when exposing the doctrine of the Trinity which lies at the heart of this deception. Jeremiah 23:27,28 (NW):

They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Baʹal. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream relate the dream, but the one who has my word should speak my word truthfully.” “What does the straw have in common with the grain?” declares Jehovah.

ASV:

that think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbor, as their fathers forgat my name for Baal.
28 The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the straw to the wheat? saith Jehovah.

The deception I spoke about is described in Jeremiah chapter 23 as such:

25 How long will this continue in the heart of the prophets, to prophesy lies? They are prophets of the deceit of their own heart.
...
16 This is what Jehovah of armies says:
“Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you.
They are deluding you.* [Or “They are filling you with empty hopes.”]
The vision they speak is from their own heart,
Not from the mouth of Jehovah.

The vision someone who made the other thread about the Trinity in the yellow forum was speaking about when talking about a dream they had fits perfectly with Jeremiah ch. 23 (a perfect demonstration how this type of self-deception works). It's influenced by what they want to believe, as all dreams are influenced by the thoughts in your own mind. The same is true for those who talk about the Trinity as if the Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost as some will say) revealed it to them. There's a spirit behind the doctrine of the Trinity allright but it isn't the holy spirit.

a reply to: whereislogic

Adonai is the Masoretic plural of Majesty that replaced YHVH

Adon. Means​ lord. So does Baal.


You really don't have to tell me what I already know...you know?

And you don't seem to know what I am even talking about...ever. I don't think you are very knowledgeable, were you you'd know to avoid this topic is the only smart move for Xtians because it rips apart the lie the religion is built upon called Trinity using the words of the Messiah pbuh himself.

You have evidence proving that Trinity is a fabrication but for some reason don't see that for the clear factual truth it absolutely is.

You call that knowledge? It's denial.

You didn't know what Adonai meant, talk like I used the word and thought you had an opp. to correct me but fooled only yourself and actually thought you were correcting me. Lol.

But Adonai isn't what I said.

I said lord is baal or adon in Hebrew-Aramaic.

Fact.

Adonai is plural but you don't know that and used it as a singular word for lord as if I had made an error. What error did I really make?

None. The error is as usual made by you in thinking I would ever allow myself to utter an unchecked fact as a fact.

If you are trying to defend trinity it's too late.

I have proven the Bible refutes it.

What is left to do?

Nada. Case closed.

a reply to: whereislogic

Now further who is the father of lies?

Shaitan.

"The Bible says Jesus pbuh God."

Is a lie it says he is NOT God and that we should worship the ONE God worship Him with all your heart to be exact.

"Trinity" is a fabrication of Greco-Romans grafted onto theology but contradicted by Jesus pbuh himself.

2 lies most Christians don't know are lies.

Who is leading them?

Not God or Jesus pbuh.

Only the father of lies would lie upon the name of Messiah Isa pbuh.

You are welcome to present any verse you THINK supports the lies of Nicea.

But I guarantee I will refute them.

a reply to: Raggedyman

So much love that He, God wants to express His love by enlarging the Trinity to include Humanity.

Which also represents the 4th leg. Anyway you look at it, the God of the Bible is a 4 fold expression, Yod He Vah He, 5 fold when referred to in the plural, Elohim. The idea of the Trinity is incomplete.

a reply to: windword

Sorry windy, right now I don't have the time
I don't understand what you are inferring
Want to point me in a general direction, throw a few clues
I would appreciate that

a reply to: Raggedyman


It's really simple. The Jewish God of the Bible is a 4 fold expression: Yod He Vah He. The first 3 legs are expressions of existence, and God DOES exist, "Me, Myself and I" plus the 4th leg that represents all of GOD's creation, your body and the ground that it stands on.

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity is incomplete.

Now, why the early Christians thought it necessary to truncate the Jewish God into a Trinity is anyone's guess. But, it is an incomplete and false representation of the Jewish God. And lets not forget, Jesus was a Jew and taught from Jewish scriptures.