Freedom of Speech and Freedom from Consequences.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What word would you be using? Conducting?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Pulls out the same old deflections.

No it isn't like a marionette. Nobody said it was. If you assumed that is what it meant then that is on you.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

The point is that people GIVE you the POWER willingly after you convince them. Once they do that they are under your control. Eg. Hitler and Jim Jomes.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

What word would you be using? Conducting?

Any number of words. Jones preached to them, he talked to them, he lied to them, etc.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

We get that but once a person chooses to follow orders then the other person has control over their actions. Of course it isn't absolute or like a marionette but it is control.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Pulls out the same old deflections.

No it isn't like a marionette. Nobody said it was. If you assumed that is what it meant then that is on you.

Then what is it like?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Any number of words. Jones preached to them, he talked to them, he lied to them, etc.

Therefore people gave him the power willingly after he convinced them. The people did everything he asked them to, including drinking the kool-aid. That's power.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Preached, talked and lied all involve words.

That was the original point. It isn't the words that have power it is the person that establishes a certain amount of control through words.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Like a soldier following orders.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
The point is that people GIVE you the POWER willingly after you convince them. Once they do that they are under your control. Eg. Hitler and Jim Jomes.

I added an extra small paragraph to my reply (but I did NOT change anything else, please go and see it.)

You are missing the point. You are allowing your sense of emotional reasoning to dictate your sense of reason.

Hitler did NOT have literal power to control even his most loyal commanders, let alone the civilian population in Germany at the time.

If enough civilians had decided to rise up and resist, EVEN when the Nazi party was in complete control of the state, they would have been able to overthrow Hitler and any of his supporters. The reason they did not is because they were consumed by FEAR (an extremely powerful emotion that makes us believe we are compelled to do stupid or evil things to ensure our own survival).

a reply to: daskakik

Preached, talked and lied all involve words.

That was the original point. It isn't the words that have power it is the person that establishes a certain amount of control through words.

Exactly right. What it doesn't involve is supernatural causation, that words are flying through the air and exhibiting drug-like effects on the body.

originally posted by: daskakik
We get that but once a person chooses to follow orders then the other person has control over their actions. Of course it isn't absolute or like a marionette but it is control.

How do you confirm a person has chosen something before they have taken part in an action that confirms that belief? Either you are arguing that this "spell" of Hitlers renders everyone under his control the inability to control their own individual actions, which would (in my view) make them all insane. Do you believe every person in Germany at the time when Nazis were at the height of their power were insane?

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Therefore people gave him the power willingly after he convinced them. The people did everything he asked them to, including drinking the kool-aid. That's power.

That's stupidity. Those people didn't drink the koolaid because he had power over them, but because they were incredulous and gullible idiots.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

I'm not sure you can. I also don't think you need to in order for the statement to be true.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

No I did not miss the point. Nobody is claiming that Hitler controlled his people through strings or as in Les' case with his silly remark about remote control. The point is people give you the power. Nobody is saying that they can't revolt.
Besides the military depend on control, remember?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

because they were incredulous and gullible idiots

Hence my point of some people being easily swayed (and they don't have to be stupid, just easily swayed).

a reply to: LesMisanthrope
I think you meant credulous.

He had control because of that. He convinced them with his words because they were credulous and gullible idiots.

It doesn't change the fact that the followed his orders.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Either you are arguing that this "spell" of Hitlers renders everyone under his control the inability to control their own individual actions

That is called propaganda and brainwashing. They get them young. And they play subliminal music all night while they sleep, etc.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
No I did not miss the point. Nobody is claiming that Hitler controlled his people through strings or as in Les' case with his silly remark about remote control. The point is people give you the power. Nobody is saying that they can't revolt.
Besides the military depend on control, remember?

It's a ridiculous argument that cannot make logical sense, the ONLY exception being if you are mentally insane. There is power within EVERYONE. EVERYONE can choose to do anything or nothing. Just because Hitler was put into power and encouraged Germans to tap into that power and use it for his own goals does NOT mean they didn't have the capacity to resist.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Nobody said they did.