Real Aliens? Real Spacecraft? Does the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis Still Hold Water?

This is why I joined ATS

Very good thread.

In my opinion this is the most important question of the humanity... Are we alone?

Where are we from?

Why are we here?

What's our purpose?


Once we have the answer for the question #1, all others will reveal to us. (Considering the answer is "yes". Which is.)

I think it's ridiculous for people to assume aliens would be humanoid. The conditions on another planet- gravity, atmosphere, climate, etc. would drive the evolutionary path of all species there. A planet could have a single small land mass and be 95% water in which many species may be waterborne and high intelligence might evolve. A species may need wings to survive on a planet with large mountains and high intelligence arises with that species. A cold or hot environment would determine how they evolve. Endless possibilities of how life would look.

The description of aliens is an anthropomorphic stereotype and caricature of the way humans view intelligence or a futuristic species visually. I've posted this before:
Large Head = Large brain/High intelligence (think high foreheads, etc.)
Thin Bodies = Life evolved to rely on intelligence not strength. Musculature not needed.
Large Eyes = Wise/Intelligent beings (think the wise owl myth) Also, communication via telepathy through eyes into mind.
Small Ears = Hearing not essential for communication.
Small mouth = Again, communication is not spoken.
Small Nose = Visually symmetrical and proportionate to the above.

Decades ago, people described seeing aliens land and walk around wearing helmets and some kind of space suit, usually collecting samples. You don't hear that any longer. Now they're nude or wear tight fitting outfits and wear no helmets and show up unannounced in your bedroom. The description of UFOs changed also. Many were described having a bubble on top or an antenna type structure. You don't hear of that much anymore.
Point being, all above is very unoriginal, unimaginative, and extremely human-centric. Whereas on our own planet, life has evolved to look so many different ways, we couldn't even begin to guess how a completely new species would look.

If a planet did have the exact same conditions as Earth, the likelihood that high intelligence would arise is extremely rare. Look at the fluke we were out of many billions of species and many billions of years. If a mass extinction event happened tomorrow, would high intelligence evolve again? Using Earth as our example, it's doubtful even under the perfect conditions. Some will use the argument that the conditions for high intelligence was only ideal within the last X years. Where has nature evolved another species of high intelligence with any of the billions of species we share Earth with now?
Evolution doesn't follow a path/plan other than the need of a species to carry the traits for survival and reproduction. The same will happen on other Earth-like planets. Possibly many millions of unique life forms will exist.

With all of that said, I still believe high intelligence is possible, but it's just one more huge hurdle to overcome. Space travel is another.

Also, perhaps you'd like to add this documentary about UFOs from 1956 with very solid information from government and military personalities.


The truth is out there, we just need to get the f# outta this box.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thank you for that Kev.

a reply to: mirageman

Lots to read and enjoying every bit of it as I slowly go through it
Nicely done and I will need more time, this is why I love this place

A very well written report and view op.

my only problem is that you started in 1940 and 50's. The post would have been enhanced had you discussed the many paintings from hundreds of years ago which show craft much as they were described in the 40's and 50's.

These early paintings of craft need to be addressed in any comprehensive discussion of UFO's.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Who says they have to be humanoid in shape?

www.ufointernationalproject.com...

Whilst a lot of the above must just seem like elaborate fantasy, there is definitely some truth in these stories. British Scientists in 2012 discovered tiny ‘space bugs’ in the earths Atmosphere. Tiny organisms were discovered by University of Sheffield experts on a research balloon they had sent 27km (16.7 miles) into the atmosphere during last month’s Perseids meteor shower.

Atmospheric Beasts
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Atmospheric beasts are the strangest of the flying monsters from cryptozoology. According to eyewitness reports, they are things that seem like living creatures, but they break all the usual rules that we apply to living things. They fly without the need for wings and their bodies are only semi-solid, often partially invisible to boot. Many atmospheric beast sightings were originally classified as really unusual UFO reports (in the sense of UFOs being defined as supposed alien spacecraft or machines of some other sort, not in the technical sense of being unidentified flying objects). Noted Bigfoot author Ivan T. Sanderson devoted an entire book to the theory that many UFOs are actually extremely low density animals native to the clouds. One of the most famous atmospheric beasts is the Crawfordsville Monster, sighted in Indiana in 1891, which some researchers classify as a dragon.

originally posted by: mirageman

You've shot yourself in the foot good sir! Posting a picture of a Terran vessel that has proven the existence of aliens! How else could you explain the incineration of Chau Sara?

a reply to: mirageman

Great thread!

Though I can't say what the ufos are, there is overwhelming evidence that something strange is flying in our air space. The military sighting alone are enough to tell you that this is real, and unexplained.

Could they be ET? Of course they can, but it can also be a number of things, and we don't know 100%

But, I do believe that governments take the subject a lot more seriously than they make out. Government documents prove this.

Yes we get dubunkers . but I don't take these guys seriously because like most people, they want to be part of a group, and that's their group. But me, I just want the truth. I don't let my ignorance, arrogance or ego get in the way of this.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

FYI, in case you haven't seen it, one of the fathers of UFOlogy
himself, Dr. Vallee, wrote this paper in 1990:

Five Arguments Against the Extra-terrestrial Theory

Kev

And what a complete load of crap that paper was I must say.

originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: fromtheskydown
You have obviously put a lot of work into your posts but all I am getting from it is titles, a paragraph or two of info that is neither new or thought provoking...links to a lot of websites and then a kind of 'Over to you' question at the end and no actual opinions from yourself.

My apologies, but count me out, as this thread actually offers nothing in the way of stimulation or information. It's kind of like a general summing-up something we already know.

Fair enough. If you ever read any of my other posts you will find I don't (often) go strong with opinions in the OP. Mainly because there aren't many definite answers in this field and I prefer to offer my opinions later after presenting the information. This post wasn't aimed at someone like you. If you already have seen all the information presented here and know it all then I am sorry to have wasted your time.

You definitely haven't wasted my time.

I am fairly new here and used to reading highly opinionated...and sometimes arrogant...opening posts. I have not read your earlier posts and am unfamiliar with your methodology, so I just said it as i saw it. As for me, I am fairly open to all kinds of options when it comes to the ETH. I lean more to the existence of civilizations previous to ours and possibly their co-existence alongside of us.

I am also a firm believer of the ancient 'gods' from off-world.
Our planet is old...our civilization is not old enough.

a reply to: TrueMessiah

I do have to agree that it leaves out many of the good reasons that the ETH has little or no merit.
But it was a good start for 1990.

Kev

originally posted by: fromtheskydown
You have obviously put a lot of work into your posts but all I am getting from it is titles, a paragraph or two of info that is neither new or thought provoking...links to a lot of websites and then a kind of 'Over to you' question at the end and no actual opinions from yourself.

My apologies, but count me out, as this thread actually offers nothing in the way of stimulation or information. It's kind of like a general summing-up something we already know.

I second this.

a reply to: Moresby

Don't punish the man, because largely due to him and a few others, ATS members have been more fully educated about UFOs than most people.

Why don't you build upon the base post and contribute something?

I find nothing wrong with a great summary.

Kev

Just a quick point. If we take a step back and try to look at the big picture. The universe is so incredibly massive and old we can hardly even comprehend it. Other lifeforms could exist out there in fact a lot of scientists and physicists agree there probably is life out there and possibly a lot of it.
If we have had visitors they may have very advanced technology to travel faster than light to get here and investigate our solar system or be passing through and take a look who knows. There may even be other dimensions which they travel from.
Such technology would be totally incomprehensible to us. Logically there is no way to rule such ideas out completely we simply do not know.
Could be visitors from this universe or others. IMO it is a perfectly logical and possible theory.

a reply to: JimTSpock

I have no problem with the ETH as a hypothesis for the future.

However there is no compelling evidence that we have been visited by biological life forms in a ship so far.

It could happen tomorrow for the first time.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No compelling evidence that's your opinion. Again advanced technology we don't have or understand could explain the weirdness somewhat.

From the OP,

• The vast, vast distances between our solar system and others, given the constraints by the known laws of physics, present an insurmountable task to travel between stars. For example the New Horizons probe that recently studied Pluto would take 40,000 years to reach Alpha Centauri (our nearest stellar neighbour).
• The volume of reported sightings, landings and encounters are simply far too numerous to indicate any realistic study by an alien intelligence.
• The apparent ability of many UFOs to materialize and dematerialize, change shape, divide and split, merge with other objects, and other strange properties does not seem to suggest they are real nuts and bolts craft.
• Of all the species that have developed on Earth, over billions of years, only one has developed the technology to go into space. That species has still not managed to go beyond its own moon and space is a very dangerous place for fragile human bodies.

Basically saying we know everything and no one could be more advanced than us. Which is just silly really. Going to the moon was impossible 100 years ago we've done it. What will we do in 100 years or 1,000 or 10,000...

a reply to: JimTSpock

There are a hundred reasons why nuts and bolts aliens, if any, haven't made it here in this tiny slice of space/time.

There are no reasons (yet) to declare positively that they have.

Kev

In the '90's I worked for a shadowy U.S government agency.
I was introduced to four different species of E.T and studied them at length.
No proof . Just first hand , hands on stuff.

Have posted detailed descriptions here before ....

They're real . They exist. They're here.
One species is exactly the same as us ,
you could bump into one in the street ... and not realise.

From within our galaxy , they get around in ships up to 5 km. diameter.
( got a close up look at those too .)

wonkette.com...
Air Force logs and government radar reports released under the Freedom
of Information Act reveal that a massive, terrible mystery aircraft barreled
through the skies of Central Texas on January 8 — and it was headed for
George W. Bush’s Crawford ranch at 2,100 miles per hour!

Information and access is very restricted , so PM me if you want,
I never signed a secrecy deal ....

In closing , take a look at the MIB movies , some of those aliens are the
real deal , ... the stranger GM types .

I used to be a strong believer in aliens and flying saucers as UFOs. But I was blinded by popular belief and the desire to believe in them. Then I started to see...

Aliens may exist elsewhere in the universe but they are not here. I think the whole UFO thing is to distract us from what is really going on and that's the way the government/military wants it. They would rather us believe in UFOs than what they are really doing or involved in or with.

A lot of the people that come out and tell us about their "experiences" are former government/military people. And so many people fall for it. Government can't be trusted. Government lies. But when they tell us what we want to hear about UFO's...they are telling the truth! I think those government/military people are just continuing to spread propaganda. People like John Lear. Or any former astronaut. Kenneth Arnold.

Also, does anyone notice how if you do not go along with the popular belief in UFOs and aliens that you get attacked. Like if you disagree with a liberal when it comes to politics. Or with a conservative when it comes to religion?