Women shouldn't be allowed abortion

a reply to: omniEther

A long time before I had my three children, I was for abortion. Not anymore.

Becoming a parent hugely increased my appreciation for the miracle of life, and it made me much less selfish for which I am grateful.

Here is how I see it now: Who the f**k am I to play God and decide on life or death? We were all in the womb at one point, and if our mother had decided to abort us, we wouldn't even be talking about any choice in the matter. We would have been snuffed out before we ever got the chance.

The argument "Having her child would ruin the mother's and the baby's life if the mother is poor" is utter crap. There is this thing called adoption. I know several couples who have been waiting in line for 5 years and longer for the chance to adopt. Adoption is a win for the baby and a win for those couples. What the mother "loses" is that she has to carry the child to term and give up her baby which she didn't want in the first place. If anything, this is what we should be talking about.

Then there is the argument "As a woman, I have the right to do what I want with my body." Yes, you do. You have the right to have sex. You have the right to become pregnant, and you have the right to use birth control (which should be free, subsidised, for all women). But you DO NOT have the right to do what you want with the body of your unborn child. Thinking that you do is selfish, plain and simple. This is my opinion, though it has taken me many years to reach. I am not religious, but I do consider myself spiritual.

I have had to give up many things for my children, but I have never once regretted it. Life has given me many beautiful moments before I had children, and after that, I mostly enjoy giving my children beautiful moments. NOTHING can compete with that!

soulwaxer

originally posted by: Advantage
Ugh... Im going to be crude and its no fun to be crude when I cant see a persons face when I say things

Okay, #1 there is more to sex than the act of intercourse.. a LOT more, if you havent heard
#2 close to 80% of women have trouble with or do not have orgasm with intercourse.. look it up
#3 you can get pregnant with intercourse.. obvious

So it sort of makes me wonder what women are really getting out of quickies and partners who dont get them off.. usually an unwanted pregnancy I suppose. If women were more in touch with their own sexuality and men were forced to treat the woman as the sexual object she is at that moment and not a sperm dumpster.. we probably would have a lot less unwanted babies and abortions. It will never be any different in a Western society that demands women give into a mans sexual demands and normalizes a pump and dump. If people want to know WHY there are abortion clinics.. look at yourselves for that answer.. ideologies of the patriarchal persuasion.

The thing about sex is when it's happening you are not exactly acting with a rational mind.

Pro-choice late term abortions are probably a really bad thing. But I early term or day after pill should be woman's right in my mind because its her body to decide who it is to be used. If having an early term abortion is immoral it is up to God to decide. Hey if abortion was that big of deal our omnipotent God would have explicitly mentioned "abortion" in the Bible.

I think the Supreme court got it right with roe-vs-wade. It's a difficult issue but each person had rights over their own body.

a reply to: dfnj2015

If I could become pregnant I would still be staunchly against abortion even if I became pregnant at an inopportune time I would reject the privilege that abortion is. I do not pick and choose ideals for when they best suit me, but based on logic and morals/ethics beyond religious belief.

originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: eNumbra

Some see placing responsibility on people for their actions as morally superior to taking an innocent human life.

Oh so it's just moral superiority? I thought we were arguing something concrete, immutable, and not based on appeals to emotion and mysticism.

originally posted by: soulwaxer
a reply to: omniEther
Here is how I see it now: Who the f**k am I to play God

Who are you to pretend to be God by telling other people what they can or cannot do with their own body?

I never see these so called moral responsible people trying to limit the men.

How about this. Any man that impregnates a woman while she isn't seeking impregnation should be castrated.

I bet that would be more effective in the decline of unwanted pregnancies than anti choice ideas.

originally posted by: eNumbra

Abortion isn't murder.

You just said it was a child.

Children aren't people?

Or did you "misspeak"?

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Advantage
Ugh... Im going to be crude and its no fun to be crude when I cant see a persons face when I say things

Okay, #1 there is more to sex than the act of intercourse.. a LOT more, if you havent heard
#2 close to 80% of women have trouble with or do not have orgasm with intercourse.. look it up
#3 you can get pregnant with intercourse.. obvious

So it sort of makes me wonder what women are really getting out of quickies and partners who dont get them off.. usually an unwanted pregnancy I suppose. If women were more in touch with their own sexuality and men were forced to treat the woman as the sexual object she is at that moment and not a sperm dumpster.. we probably would have a lot less unwanted babies and abortions. It will never be any different in a Western society that demands women give into a mans sexual demands and normalizes a pump and dump. If people want to know WHY there are abortion clinics.. look at yourselves for that answer.. ideologies of the patriarchal persuasion.

The thing about sex is when it's happening you are not exactly acting with a rational mind.

Pro-choice late term abortions are probably a really bad thing. But I early term or day after pill should be woman's right in my mind because its her body to decide who it is to be used. If having an early term abortion is immoral it is up to God to decide. Hey if abortion was that big of deal our omnipotent God would have explicitly mentioned "abortion" in the Bible.

I think the Supreme court got it right with roe-vs-wade. It's a difficult issue but each person had rights over their own body.

Ive always been rational... and rationally chosen what I want.

Like I said, I dont care about what others do.. but they should be on the hook for it. If you dont belive in abortion and think its murder.. dont have one. You cant force others to do what you want.

originally posted by: ksiezyc
a reply to: dfnj2015

If I could become pregnant I would still be staunchly against abortion even if I became pregnant at an inopportune time I would reject the privilege that abortion is. I do not pick and choose ideals for when they best suit me, but based on logic and morals/ethics beyond religious belief.

Nobody is denying you the choice NOT to have an abortion. That would be BIG government taking away your rights. Oh wait, it works both ways!

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: eNumbra

Abortion isn't murder.

You just said it was a child.

Children aren't people?

Or did you "misspeak"?

Is this really how you intend to win this? Semantics?

Here's how you know a woman's right to choose is the correct way our secular law should be. What if the NWO Democrats controlled all three branches of government and decided because of global warming and global over population ALL women who became pregnant MUST get an abortion. Wow, can you imagine all the rights talk then?

So BIG government is only okay when it favors your way of thinking. Got it.

a reply to: eNumbra

No, but you could very well lose it that way.

For every fetus that you had no chance in hell saving. You passed by countless children who need your help now. Who go to bed each night knowing tomorrow won't be any better than today.
You passed them right up on your way to call some woman a murderer.... and sinner a whore.
There is nothing righteous about"maybe" saving the life of a fetus.......If you had to walk right past 5 needy children who desperately need your help now.

The person who brings a single mother a weeks worth of baby formula is a hero...... a person who stands in front of a clinic carrying a sign....... is a showman

The problem with the abortion thing is nobody will be able to convince the other side they are wrong. This is an issue that people have to come to their own conclusions based on their own morality. You all might as well be pissing in the wind.

Huh...

If only someone would have thought to discuss this topic before somewhere....

originally posted by: Advantage

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Advantage
Ugh... Im going to be crude and its no fun to be crude when I cant see a persons face when I say things

Okay, #1 there is more to sex than the act of intercourse.. a LOT more, if you havent heard
#2 close to 80% of women have trouble with or do not have orgasm with intercourse.. look it up
#3 you can get pregnant with intercourse.. obvious

So it sort of makes me wonder what women are really getting out of quickies and partners who dont get them off.. usually an unwanted pregnancy I suppose. If women were more in touch with their own sexuality and men were forced to treat the woman as the sexual object she is at that moment and not a sperm dumpster.. we probably would have a lot less unwanted babies and abortions. It will never be any different in a Western society that demands women give into a mans sexual demands and normalizes a pump and dump. If people want to know WHY there are abortion clinics.. look at yourselves for that answer.. ideologies of the patriarchal persuasion.

The thing about sex is when it's happening you are not exactly acting with a rational mind.

Pro-choice late term abortions are probably a really bad thing. But I early term or day after pill should be woman's right in my mind because its her body to decide who it is to be used. If having an early term abortion is immoral it is up to God to decide. Hey if abortion was that big of deal our omnipotent God would have explicitly mentioned "abortion" in the Bible.

I think the Supreme court got it right with roe-vs-wade. It's a difficult issue but each person had rights over their own body.

Ive always been rational... and rationally chosen what I want.

Like I said, I dont care about what others do.. but they should be on the hook for it. If you dont belive in abortion and think its murder.. dont have one. You cant force others to do what you want.

But you have to admit very late term abortions where the fetus was able to survive on its own is a grey area. It's not so clear cut as the fetus has no rights. It's difficult issue and I can see the other point of view. But I still think there is point where a women's right to choose is valid. Maybe the first 3 months. Although many pro-lifers say a 2 week old fetus is capable of understanding calculus. You would think science would be able to shed some light on the whole consciousness alive point in the pregnancy. Maybe measure brain waves or something.

I disagree. I fully support abortion rights at least in the first trimester. Though I think late term abortions should be illegal except in case of danger to the mothers life.

I also think it makes a lot of sense to have this compromise and be done with the political abortion issue for both sides.

So you're against gun rights for the case of self defense against someone invading your home as well then?

After all, in both instances it is a life being ended after invading a persons personal space. Only difference is one ends with a bullet, while the other ends with a medical procedure.

originally posted by: FauxMulder
The problem with the abortion thing is nobody will be able to convince the other side they are wrong. This is an issue that people have to come to their own conclusions based on their own morality. You all might as well be pissing in the wind.

Starred for truthfulness as it is one of those subjects where everyone has an opinion and it isn't one that will ever be swayed by mere argument alone...

originally posted by: dfnj2015
Abortion is a really difficult issue. I can't imagine anyone who is pro-choice thinking that a late term abortion where the fetus could survive on its own after the umbilical cord is cut is not somehow a very wrong thing to do.

And then, on the other side, before the first trimester is over, a woman should every right to decide how her body is used. If something is growing in my body I should have the right to have it removed. It's my body. So I totally get the idea of woman's right to choose. If a woman did not have the right to choose, once she became pregnant, should would be a slave owned by the government.

It's very difficult to take away one person's rights for another and claim which way is correct. Abortion is just one of there things where both sides are right. It's a really horrible issue. I'm kind of sick of debating it. There's no way it will ever end.

A fetus CAN NOT survive on its own after the umbilical cord is cut... It takes years and years of nurturing. I suggest you think this through a bit more.

And why does the trimester in which the abortion takes place make such a big difference? The embryo is already a living being from day one, and it will continue to grow unless it has serious defects or is aborted. Nature will take its course. There is no way for us to know what this living being experiences in whatever stage of the pregnancy, no matter what science says. Just as there is no way for us of knowing what any other adult experiences. We can only imagine.

soulwaxer