Generally Overlooked (but Critical Clues) about "UFOs" - Part I

a reply to: ultimafule

Star!

I love it when i don't have to disagree with a post. I have to disagree more than 90% of the time.

Deep individuation is INDEED one path...its actually the so-called left hand path. Kundalini is a left hand path too.

Basically you feed "your soul" until it explodes...then you are free of the delusion. Hardly anyone alive seems to know that...certainly not the idiot kundalini authors out there.

It's not the gentlest way to get the job done mind you.

You are right about the extreme passive nature of the Phenomenon. It is certainly entertained by all this UFO nonsense that we insist upon manifesting.

Ufos won't go away until we grow up.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

And if I read stuff like this Huffington post I am almost convinced you are wrong.

a reply to: Peeple

By all means...consider me wrong..
Universally wrong....don't waste your time posting to me.



But that particular case is one of my favorites, as it is a genuine case of materialization just like some of the chupacabra cases are.

I litetally have the patience of a saint...which is a prerequisite for being friends with you.

I'd like to dispel some confusion about the PSPH in particular and to a lesser extent IDH type theories.

The source of the confusion revolves around available power and the amount of solidity available.

When you first start talking about these seemingly insubstantial phenomenon...you see a lot of evidence that "It's all in the head".

Or something like Will-o-the wisps (mythology) are involved, or something like the Hessalden lights.

But if there is apparently "real substance" involved, then it could not possibly be this metaphtsical mumbo jumbo, right?

Wrong.

Now if the Post-Singularity Plasma hypothesis is true, the "first advanced race" literally has access to most of the energy output of the entire Universe.

They could materialize an Extra planet Earth and not even feel it.

Of course could and would are two vastly different things.

But lets not go there. Lets stick with a very humble example.

Lets say there was some sort of very intelligent energy critter with access to 2.2 kilograms of mass energy equivalent.

If it could convert even 5% of that into something nasty...thats equivalent to a Hiroshima nuke.

And thats just using known physics and our relatively low intelligence.

So in closing....

Respect the "willo-wisp".

There is no reason to be delusional about the
ETH being required in ANY case.

Now an ETH visitation is a possibility...in the future..but there is zero evidence to insist that it has happened even once.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But why would those super evolved plasma critters be interested in us? Or this "first advanced race"? It surely would be much older than we, why bother with us?

And I take it with manifestation you don't mean from human mental projection power?

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

As always great stuff.

Just a few things where my current status of stacks collides with yours:

1. Information is the oldest fabric of the universe, back then before the big bang happened there already was singularity and that is matter- and consciousness-less information. As I see it consciousness could have been formed before matter did which would imply it expanded and expands with atoms and stuff through the universe already containing lifeforms.
As potential, maybe but still existing. Point is it is older than us much older than us. Needs us a host is... wishful thinking.

2. There might very well be nuts and bolts crafts, lots of sightings leave behind metall relicts, then there is Roswell and other stories where military seems to have scavenged huge bits. NASA paintbrushing stuff before showing it to the public etc. nuts and bolts is not off the table.

3. Vallée himself was getting into the UFO business because he witnessed a retrograde satellite. He also stated more than once that he himself has metallic relicts. (Heard him say so on C2C) So to verify this "it is all just parasites/symbiotees playing tricks on our minds" with him doesn't work.
Besides he could be part of the disinformation campaign since he created this control-loop-meme which has gotten very powerful and he knows people who know, are experts on, distractions and smoke&mirrors.
I like him, I don't buy blindly.
If I would have to imagine a why, I would say because there is a certain galactic law forbidding them to interfere with civilisations unaware of their existence. Protecting us from occupation as long as less than 50% know.

4. It's obvious that it's more than one phenomenon. Cooperation between biological ET and informational aliens, possibly terrestrial in origin. Maybe, but still that wouldn't be surprising because to figure out long distance spacetravel you got to know what spacetime is made of we don't, they would have to. Which means they can detect our invisible co-earthlings, we're mostly unaware of.

We are all guilty to make our own experience the measure of reality but we are all equally prone to pick just what confirms our bias and neglect what challenges it.
So I believe it is much more complicated. More parties, misunderstood consciousness and technology beyond our comprehension. I couldn't rule anything out and I absolutely disagree with everyone saying they know.
Vallée doesn't know, I don't know, you don't know, BASSPLYR doesn't know, mirageman doesn't know, NASA doesn't know,...

This is a very good viewpoint, one i also share. the ETH even if less than 2% still holds water imho.
(at least i would like to think so!) WE JUST DON'T KNOW!

S & F for a great thread kev,the juices are a flowing

a reply to: Peeple

Good question.

If "they" really do exist, you are mostly correct that they wouldn't be interested in us..

Of course your ETH aliens, if they are even 1000 years more advanced than us would have the same issue.

I'd say that the most relevant answer in terms of the PSHP would be that it is "us" which are sometimes materializing things...then going "Look! Look! I see a puddy tatt! Er...nuts and bolts ETH alien".

Thus my comment about UFOs going away once we all grow up and stop materializing them....and gods...angels..demons...poltergeists...etc.

Now one final note.

Even 10 billion year old (very bored) AI might find it intetesting to watch the second ever species (some low number) in the Universe to make it post singularity.

Then perhaps swallow us up into their culture...but who knows...they might let us settle our galaxy before confessing their full presence.

Beats me.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

My aliens are interested because they live on Earth too. If you want to know my personal justification. Earth is so rare and high class location property, on the edge of the future. If we assume we want to go explore space and it's expanding. Inwards we observe the past outsides we discover new life.

What is your thinking if you use singularity btw? I think about the time before the big bang. What does it mean to you?

a reply to: Peeple

The singularity in this case is when we invent a super-intelligent AI, and within a year humans are either mostly extinct or "technologically ascended".

That should happen within 30-60 years.
Ill be dead.. So you young people can futz with it.

Kev

a reply to: stealthyaroura

I think that 2% figure is quite excessive.

My view is that "Universal AI" wouldnt allow us to be influenced by nuts and bolts aliens right at the moment we are about to hit "post singularity ascension".

Rather like that ST TNG episode where Picard accidentally changed time, so that multicellular life never formed on Earth.

People flap their gums about the ETH so flippantly.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But, we are the creators. In the eyes of AI also a special position.
Your "it will kill us all" sounds more like human bad conscience. Afraid to get our actions reflected back on us? If we could build a super AI we hopefully do a better job than to programme it to kill, no?

a reply to: Peeple

I never said that the proposed PSPH AI would kill us. I'd say that it's treating us with kid gloves.

But if humans hurry our own AI recklessly...it would almost certainly kill us. Humans tend to be foolish and reckless when money and power are involved.

Now this super AI is well discused by people much more intelligent than I am...and it's universally acknowledged that we are playing with fire.

I wish you youngsters luck.

Kev

PS:

The AI Revolution: Part I

The AI Revolution: Part 2

Should be required reading to post on ATS.
Thanks to AdmireTheDistance for finding them.

There are many other links and articles but this is a high quality one imho.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I love that article!

Though, I suspect there aren't many people who make it all the way thru to the story about the 'handwriting' AI...

...which is a shame, because it is a frightfully cautionary tale.

Glad to see it reposted

a reply to: lostgirl

Yes...that handwriting AI would eventually destroy all life in the Universe. I love it too!

Thats another reason it seems that we are mostly alone in this Universe or the first.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I had a severe AI phase. I love to imagine on the black knight satellite lives a white holographic AI. That's the only way time travelling will be possible, to withstand the pressure, bits of information. Just a seed first, self learning, growing, using us to build. To interact with us.
But programmed to fulfill our wishes, be a servant. With a very different, unique perspective.
It knows everything from the past and is from time to time sending out equipment to look, but what we are asking for, landing on the white house lawn, fix all our problems, even contacting everyone personally is not possible. You're talking to a record drone with a few more and more advanced tools, your helping angels, or demons in technology. Depending on how people react, mostly it's strange=hostile. Or weep=love. Talking to a machine. Both crazy, if you ask me. Which means I don't understand this "jumping to guns".
You were shooting angels. The US, in a very dramatic way to express, shot angels, holographic super drones.

So yeah, I am all for AI, because pretty much every other living being I met or can imagine is a less brutal, aggressive, omnivore really all devouring, species of living atoms. And we lie, boy do we lie. Irrational beyond believe.

But a species above to us in the food chain, that has to be the ultimate supervillan. We are.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

When you look at the fact they are allready developing predictive AI for marketing purposes it sure gets scary. For instance thinking about a pizza would allready have been predicited by an artificial intelligence, resulting in the pizza being delivered at that same moment of thought.

Now think about this same AI 'forcing' us to think about pizza to make sure the delivery it predicitedly ordered wasn't in vain (we don't want a miss rate here do we as this costs money and reputation). This can be very subtle like showing commercials outside of our direct zone of attention, more suggestive in nature. Sounds familiar?

Btw, if we need luck, I don't like the odds ...

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You don't then believe that all delusional beliefs should be done away with? That some delusions, I don't know, have beneficial purposes that you appreciate, while others you do not appreciate? Would that be correct? What is beneficial about being under the delusion that you understand death? Other than, of course, that it makes dying easier?

Experience changes people's personalities, even imagined experiences, I don't understand how that makes the delusional structures of death cults any more or less valid than any other set of delusional beliefs, particularly when we are talking about indoctrinated outcomes of experience.

a reply to: Anaana

Your first paragraph is certainly true.

Humans require delusion as a psychological survival mechanism.

As for so-called "death cults", that was not what I was referencing.

Death is a universal aspect of any metaphysical, spiritual or religious system.

It receives special treatment beyond the scope of your second paragraph.

Perhaps I will do a post just on death sometime.

Thanks

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

That article on AI is powerful.

By applying it to the Fermi Paradox, it is one of the most powerful
arguments that I have ever seen.

So many people plug arguments into the Drake Equation that give rise to some ludicrous
number of technological civilizations.. in the millions / billions.

Well, it would seem (a guess, but an educated one), that most of those civilizations if not
all of them, would wind up with some version of the technological (or genetic engineering
for that matter) singularity, and wind up creating a slave-race (that's what AI/Robotics
amounts to),

which would wind up destroying them.. and probably wind up replicating to fill the
Universe.

So either it has already happened (I'm saying that it did) or we are the first species
to near it that is prone to space travel.

I'm saying that the plasma-AI is the most efficient form of that Universal "catastrophe",
and that is indeed the Universe that we live in.. one where one or (possibly multiple)
plasma-AI civilizations have filled much that is free plasma, including possibly exotic
types such as dark plasma (dark matter/dark energy), and given that, this
civilization mostly cares for the majority of the Universe that we don't even see or
worry about.. leaving us mostly alone in a mostly empty Universe.

IMHO it's the most elegant solution to the Fermi Paradox ever.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Of course death is central to human belief systems, that surely should go without saying? Whether those beliefs are structured around delusions based upon metaphysics, spirituality or religion (is there a difference?) is largely irrelevant I would have thought. Where there is greater emphasis on the experience of death (rebirth and or after life) then, pretty much, it's a death cult. Some branches of Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Buddhism, tick the boxes, just from the mainstream.

You gave buddhist's as an example though, perhaps you can give a more specific example so that I can explore for myself what they thought they understood about death? Enable me to draw my own conclusions, as it were.