Okay --- so WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS?

a reply to: Annee

I don't bury my head in the sand. I'm not one of Trump's "Home Sweet Homer's" - - that just want their jobs, their home, their family, their guns, and 50's America.

That's a pretty big generalization.

I'll freely admit, I want a good job and a decent home. I'll freely admit I love my family. I'll freely admit I want to be able to protect myself and that family. I just don't understand what's so wrong about that? Should I be planning to be broke, homeless, defenseless, and alone?

Not wild about returning to the '50s... I kinda like the technology we have today.

If you are interested in planetary colonization, I would think that goal would be better accomplished by people with a decent life, as opposed to homeless, destitute, lonely, scared people.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Annee

I'm a Progressive Globalist that realizes we are on an insignificant rock in the middle of a violent universe - - - and not working together as a whole, One Planet, is just really stupid.

And that is why I appreciate you so much.

I agree entirely. And I'm glad you are still here, btw.

If any of the Trump people can satisfy me that they acknowledge those self-evident facts, I'll lighten up.
Their chosen leader certainly does not reflect that attitude.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No, he really doesn't and there are few signs to indicate his voters acknowledge those facts also.

This is a group that embraces a shocking amount of misinformation... where lies are such an important part of their business model that they will champion stronger for fake news than they will for actual facts. I believe respect is earned, and I don't believe a group that has shown such disdain for facts and truth is worthy of respect.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Bend over and kiss our respective asses goodbye. That's all that's left to do really.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I am not a Trump supporter. I was quite upset when Bush won the Presidency, so I know the hurt, disappointment, and frustration that Hillary supporters feel. I had absolutely no confidence in Obama. I felt much like I did in this election, that neither candidate represented what I wanted to see in the White House, but Bush won twice and Obama won twice, and I waited for the next election hoping for someone better.

God surely has a sense of humor because when it first became clear that our choices for President was either Satan or the Anti-Christ, I was sure it was a prank or a SNL skit. Trump and Hillary are opposites sides of the same coin. On the tail side we have a pompous. egotistical ass, on the head side we have a corrupt, clever, Machiavellian, career politician, neither which should have even been allowed to run for the Presidency in the first place.

I believe that there are a handful of die hard Trump and Hillary supporters, but on the whole, I believe that the majority of Americans that voted for Trump, voted for him because they didn't want another Capitol Hill crony in the White House. From what I have seen the majority of those Americans that voted for Hillary voted for her because they wanted to help make history. They were enamored with the idea of the first female President.

This election has been a farce from the beginning. We have allowed ourselves to be deceived by the great and powerful wizard. We are running around trying to follow the yellow brick road and trying to fight off the evils of this world with three companions. One that is crippled without oil, one that appears to be stupid and nothing but a straw man, and one that appears to be a coward because he can't stand up for what he knows is right.

One lesson that it seems we haven't learned is that it is not until we dump the false paradigms, pair our weakness and strengths, tear down the curtain and face our real enemies, we will always be a tiny people in a tiny country.

We have to stop with the anger, hatred, and grudges. We have to open our minds and our hearts and stop believing the BS and following the script.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Speak up about how the rest of us (the majority of voters) who did NOT want him are afraid for no reason. People are afraid for their lives.

No one is saying you don't have reasons to be afraid. We are telling you they are ill-informed reasons.

The vipers he's inviting into his fortress are villains, and so is he. We will become a fascist dictatorship on par with China. Oh joy.

Wait and see.

originally posted by: Annee
I'm a Progressive Globalist that realizes we are on an insignificant rock in the middle of a violent universe - - - and not working together as a whole, One Planet, is just really stupid.

Hi Progressive Globalist, I'm an everyday human being who realizes we are on a beautiful planet in the goldilocks zone of a niche of a galaxy. I also know that working in a benevolent manner towards my own personal goals benefits society as a whole, and I don't have to lose myself to a hive mentality in the process.

No one is saying you don't have reasons to be afraid. We are telling you they are ill-informed reasons.

Then inform me about how you are going to fix homelessness, starvation, and exploitation.

Inform me how you are going to respect the millions of immigrants whose kids were born here, and who work long hours to take care of those kids.

Make us aware of how you are going to eliminate bigotry, respect the rights of gay people to marry, respect the rights of women to decide on whether or not to reproduce......

and if you insist on women carrying to term, tell me how YOU are prepared to look after both mother and child.

Tell me how you are going to ensure their security, their health care, adequate nutrition, provisions for temporary setbacks, and their needs in retirement.

Tell me about how the babies born of your forcibly making the woman deliver will be cared for, educated, nourished, paid attention, and nurtured.

Inform me how you are going to make up for all of the things you want to undo -

about the rights of gays, about the fact of Muslim Americans, about transgendered and homo- or bisexual people being treated with respect.

Tell me about how you will prevent Creationism and Hell doctrine from being in our schools.

Advise us about how you intend to treat Syrian orphans and widows who need help.



So far, as I said: the vipers he's inviting into his fortress are villains against ALL of those things, and so is he. We will become a fascist dictatorship on par with China. Oh joy.

Wait and see.

No. It's too risky.
Stop it now.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No. It's too risky.
Stop it now.

What are you suggesting? How do you "stop it now"?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I also know that working in a benevolent manner towards my own personal goals benefits society as a whole, and I don't have to lose myself to a hive mentality in the process.

Only if you intend to pay it forward to society, which it is very clear you and yours have NO INTENTION of doing.

And how is caring about the least of us "hive mentality"?

What you are saying is that you know NOTHING about empathy or vulnerability. Yes, you have to participate in the hive.

Being benevolent to those in need does not make a person "hive-minded." Stop with the memes.
Own your selfishness. Acknowledge your absolute disregard (or worse, disdain) for those less comfortable than yourself or your family, or explain yourself.

How anyone can just not give a rip about anyone else's well-being, who focuses on ejecting millions of people because they speak with an accent, wear different clothing, or are brown is beyond my comprehension. In fact, the very idea that Social Workers are demonic blood-suckers is asinine. You all feel free to call us "SJWs" as though it is somehow bad that we care about EVERYONE, including YOU. THAT is where you are wrong.

In my estimation it is both ignorant and toxic thinking. It is not "benevolent" in any way to be hateful toward those fighting for social justice, or secular government. Those fighting for a woman's right to choose whether to produce a child, or to prevent pregnancy if she has sexual intercourse....How is it okay for you to decide what women you've never met and would rather cross the street than come into contact with should have a baby they don't want? Are YOU going to provide for that baby?

No? Didn't think so. Yes yes, I know you were adopted and oh thank goodness Roe v Wade was too late. Whatever. That is not justification for forcing women to give birth.

Likewise, denying climate change is in NO WAY benevolent to anyone at all. Teaching creationism and decrying evolution is not benevolent.

Forcing Muslims to "register" is backward and dangerous. I get the impression you are of Japanese ancestry. You are prepared to throw brown people who are not Christian or who aren't like you into internment camps? Force them to endure torture, sleep deprivation, waterboarding? Force them onto the streets and then bulldoze their meager make-shift camps?

Outlaw giving them food?

Tell us all about how you aren't in favor of theocracy. Explain whether or not you accept and comprehend that those are all atrocious ideas. Then tell us why on earth you are in favor if this surreal character who has no clue about what your life is really like, and who is surrounding himself with extremist bigots, warmongers, Bible-thumpers, sensationalist liars, sycophants, and known racists.

Tell us why you mock NPR but embrace Alex Jones.

Tell us how you think any of those things I listed are okay, and why in hell we shouldn't be terrified. Gun-waving, Bible-thumping, Flag-draped and oh-so-righteous.....
and you have the audacity to call others "SJWs"....and hiss while you do it.

Tell us how you are going to pull up the slack when you eliminate all forms of public security.

Go.

originally posted by: imwilliam
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

No. It's too risky.
Stop it now.

What are you suggesting? How do you "stop it now"?

You refuse to allow the appointment of known bigots, the haters of liberals, racist fascists, holy-rollers, alt-right liars, and Dominionists (who want a theocracy) into the Cabinet, or any other positions of power. You draw the line at who is acceptable.

You don't say, "okay, fine. Yeah, let's see what happens when we put this racist, bigoted, self-centered team in charge!"

No. That's like setting loose rattle-snakes all over the place and waiting to see how many they kill. Just out of spitefulness and greed. Hatred and prejudice, judgmentalism and ignorance.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs

No one is saying you don't have reasons to be afraid. We are telling you they are ill-informed reasons.

Then inform me about how you are going to fix homelessness, starvation, and exploitation.

I have and will keep donating to my local charities. The poor will always be with us.

Inform me how you are going to respect the millions of immigrants whose kids were born here, and who work long hours to take care of those kids.

Their parents brought them here, they can take them back. We can't separate families.

Make us aware of how you are going to eliminate bigotry, respect the rights of gay people to marry, respect the rights of women to decide on whether or not to reproduce......

You can change your own heart, start there.

and if you insist on women carrying to term, tell me how YOU are prepared to look after both mother and child.

I have and will keep donating to my local charities.

Tell me how you are going to ensure their security, their health care, adequate nutrition, provisions for temporary setbacks, and their needs in retirement.

I have and will keep donating to my local charities.

Tell me about how the babies born of your forcibly making the woman deliver will be cared for, educated, nourished, paid attention, and nurtured.

I have and will keep donating to my local charities.

Inform me how you are going to make up for all of the things you want to undo -

Make up for what? Progressive policies that do more harm than good? Undoing them is the best thing possible.

about the rights of gays, about the fact of Muslim Americans, about transgendered and homo- or bisexual people being treated with respect.

Respect is earned, not given.

Tell me about how you will prevent Creationism and Hell doctrine from being in our schools.

I won't.

Advise us about how you intend to treat Syrian orphans and widows who need help.

I have and will keep donating to my local charities.

So far, as I said: the vipers he's inviting into his fortress are villains against ALL of those things, and so is he. We will become a fascist dictatorship on par with China. Oh joy.

No, he won't. Since your opinion is as valid as mine, we negate.

No. It's too risky.
Stop it now.

No, Obama was too risky. Thank God he's gone in 2 months. There is a lot of damage to undo.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You refuse to allow the appointment of known bigots, the haters of liberals, racist fascists, holy-rollers, alt-right liars, and Dominionists (who want a theocracy) into the Cabinet, or any other positions of power. You draw the line at who is acceptable.

And who exactly draws the line? And who determines who has crossed that line?

You and I might agree that we don't want to see a racist in a position of power, but what exactly is a Racist? I don't want a theocracy, but do you believe that Christians should be barred from the political process in this country? Should liberals that hate conservatives be barred from positions of authority as well?

How does your "stop it now" play out in the real world?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I don't need a global mindset to help my fellow man. Why do libs?

The rest of all that... just let it out. Good, good.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: Annee

I don't bury my head in the sand. I'm not one of Trump's "Home Sweet Homer's" - - that just want their jobs, their home, their family, their guns, and 50's America.

That's a pretty big generalization.

Of course its not every Trump supporter. And the "50's" reference is meant to be a lot broader meaning then just the years.

But, IMO - (and the map) Midwest thinking was Trump's primary demographic.

While Hillary's #1 demographic was College Educated White Women.

I am a Progressive - -REALLY. About everything. No matter what I do - - I look for a better way to do it - - to change it so it functions better, etc. My brain just works that way.

You shoulda seen me as an office manager. I made a list of everything that had to be done. Interviewed the office employees. Found out what they liked to do, and didn't. Found out their strength and weaknesses. Re-shuffled the work, but also cross-trained everyone. I increased production and had a very happy staff.

It's just something that comes naturally to me.

I was actually a stay at home mom (at least until I had to get a divorce). No one else was gonna raise my children. But, I was bored out of my mind. I think I drove them crazy. No matter what it was, I was always "How can we do it different, how can we change it, how can we do it better".

I probably understand the "real" Trump better then many of his supporters do.

LOL

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Prime examples, again, of why Trump won... or, more precisely, why Hillary lost.

Only if you intend to pay it forward to society, which it is very clear you and yours have NO INTENTION of doing.

Accusations with absolutely no merit... assumptions made of a group applied to an individual for no other reason than they disagree with your (and in this case I am being specific) opinions.

What you are saying is that you know NOTHING about empathy or vulnerability. Yes, you have to participate in the hive.

More unfounded accusations based on a non-aggressive statement. And a demand to conform. Nice.

Own your selfishness. Acknowledge your absolute disregard (or worse, disdain) for those less comfortable than yourself or your family, or explain yourself.

Now a demand for self-depreciation, coupled with an assertion that the target is somehow better off than others. How does one garner such data from a few lines of text?

Since you finally made a post that contains a semblance of issues, let me address them:

I "give a rip" about everyone. I also recognize that the laws must be followed to protect everyone. I support deportation of illegal trespassers on American soil, especially those who continue to commit crimes after trespassing. I wholly support anyone from any country who legally immigrates to America, and would like to see the legal immigration process streamlined.

I do NOT "give a rip" what color someone's skin is.

I personally do not use the term SJW. I have used the term "crazy as a loon" in the past when it seemed to fit.

I support legalized abortion, although I personally think it is horrendous. My respect for others tells me to not interfere with their decision as long as that decision is not inhumane towards others. I do not support partial-birth abortion, because it is inhumane to another obvious person... the same reason I do not support child abuse.

I also support relaxing the rules to make adoption easier. I am well aware of the problems poor single mothers face and the fact many are unable to handle those problems.

In that vein, I support programs designed to provide aid and child care. Here we have a program called "WIC" that provides infant formula, milk, cheese, and other expensive but healthy foods for women who are financially strapped with children.

Even better, I support anyone, male or female, having the opportunity to make a good paycheck in a job they enjoy. That is the ultimate solution to poverty. And it might surprise you to know that I support education reform similar to that proposed by Bernie Sanders. That helps people get those good jobs.

Global Warming is a hoax to perpetuate poverty and enrich the wealthy. I do not support it.

Evolution is a theory and should be taught. Creationism is a theory that should be mentioned but not fully taught because it pre-assumes a religious bent. I do not support teaching of religion, save in a historical sense, in public schools.

I would adamantly oppose anyone being forced to 'register' over anything except a criminal conviction, and then only as absolutely necessary to protect the public. I use future tense because I have heard nothing about such a program.

I oppose theocracy as unconstitutional. I support freedom of religion and question your use of the phrase "Bible-thumper" as a slur. Do you oppose freedom of religion?

NPR typically does not share my political views, yet I support its existence. It provides a needed outlet for ideas not welcome in main-stream media. I do not listen to Alex Jones, because I do not wish my brain to rot.

Incidentally, I do not listen to Limbaugh for the same reason.

You shouldn't be terrified because you have (apparently) been listening to lies. I have guns for protection and to get food if needed... nothing more. If no one attacks me, I will not defend against them. I appreciate my flag for what it stands for to me, because I can not know implicitly what it means to others. I believe my Bible for my own reasons... others are free to believe as they wish. If that terrifies you, then I am at a loss as to how to console you.

If anyone has reason to be 'terrified' it is a white, middle-class male because there are escalating reports of them being physically attacked because they "look like a Trump supporter."

TheRedneck

a reply to: Annee

I can actually emphasize with your mindset. I am similar in that I am always looking to improve. Perhaps we simply disagree on what improvement entails.

Let's look at health care as an example. I remember when health care was not a concern. Doctors treated everyone, and often took trade for medical help... land, labor, livestock... and sometimes just tore up the bill if the family had nothing to give.

Then two things changed. People began to sue doctors over silly details, causing doctors to have to charge more to cover rising malpractice insurance rates, and causing hospitals to start requiring so many tests that the cost increased. Then insurance companies became commonplace and doctors could cover these costs through insurance, raising premiums, which caused more insurance coverage and paperwork, which raised costs, which raised premiums... ad infinitum.

To date, I have never seen an industry that did not raise costs when insurance became commonplace.

I would like to see a mandate that any medical institution must see any patient regardless of ability to pay, and a single governmental department that handles medical collections, provides amnesty to the poor, and reimburses medical professionals a portion of their bill immediately. I would like to see a revamp of the court systems to establish special medical courts to curb superfluous suits while allowing true malpractice suits to continue. I would like to see simple common-sense restrictions on billing procedures to stop hidden costs from being passed down via $20 aspiring.

Obamacare did not do this. It instead placed insurance mandates on people who already could not afford insurance. It thus caused insurance rates to rise and decreased competition because smaller insurance companies could not compete. It exacerbated the original problem.

That is not progress. Progress is making health care cheaper, more available, and better. Not more expensive, more complex, and ignoring a wide segment of the population (including me) because they don't make enough and the states don't want to pick up the tab.

That's a lot of words to use for an example, but I find it very interesting how you and I can be so similar in overall views, yet disagree so often. By your definition, I am a Progressive as well.

Is there such a thing as a Conservative-Progressive?

TheRedneck

The coruption (both sides of the aisle) has created a debt that is unsustainable. Some heads need to roll. A bipartisan citizen tribunal would be a good start. Some accountability in Washington would be nice, the other problems might resolve them selves once this was done.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

I can actually emphasize with your mindset. I am similar in that I am always looking to improve. Perhaps we simply disagree on what improvement entails.

Seems so. IMO Efficiency requires a common goal. All focused on doing their part, within the framework, to reach the same goal. Like a family or an entire world. My picture is bigger.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

Then two things changed. People began to sue doctors over silly details, causing doctors to have to charge more to cover rising malpractice insurance rates, and causing hospitals to start requiring so many tests that the cost increased. Then insurance companies became commonplace and doctors could cover these costs through insurance, raising premiums, which caused more insurance coverage and paperwork, which raised costs, which raised premiums... ad infinitum.

YES.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

I would like to see a mandate that any medical institution must see any patient regardless of ability to pay, and a single governmental department that handles medical collections, provides amnesty to the poor, and reimburses medical professionals a portion of their bill immediately. I would like to see a revamp of the court systems to establish special medical courts to curb superfluous suits while allowing true malpractice suits to continue. I would like to see simple common-sense restrictions on billing procedures to stop hidden costs from being passed down via $20 aspiring.

YES

originally posted by: TheRedneck

Obamacare did not do this. It instead placed insurance mandates on people who already could not afford insurance. It thus caused insurance rates to rise and decreased competition because smaller insurance companies could not compete. It exacerbated the original problem.

You do know that the original plan was written by the Heritage Group? They've tried to distance themselves stating its not what they proposed. I don't know. Would take more time then I've got to research it in full.

Not taking sides on article, its just an article that kind of explains it (Left leaning, I think).

Original 1989 document where Heritage Foundation created Obamacare’s individual mandate.

Republicans are on a renewed kick to try to repeal, or at least delay (in the hopes of killing), the “individual mandate” that’s included in the President’s health care reform law, aka the Affordable Care Act, aka Obamacare. The irony, of course, is that it was Republicans, via their premiere think tank, the Heritage Foundation, who came up with the idea in the first place. americablog.com...

Oh, I'm more Right leaning then you might think. But, my main subject has been Equal Rights/Equal Treatment. And Separation of Church and State.

The LGBT - - Christian thing is such a waste. I was hoping for a Federal Equal Rights Law. Not likely with this administration.

a reply to: Annee

You do know that the original plan was written by the Heritage Group? They've tried to distance themselves stating its not what they proposed. I don't know. Would take more time then I've got to research it in full.

No need to prove that statement; I'm not surprised in the least. Remember it was Mitt Romney who instituted a similar policy in MA. When I heard the Republicans had nominated Romney to run on the anti-Obamacare platform, I almost choked.

Annee, I am about equality as well. I don't care what people do with who in their bedroom. I do care when they tell me about it... as much as I care when straight folks tell me about their romps. I just don't think you can legislate personal likes and dislikes. Actions, now... that you can outlaw.

I have heard some theories that the anti-homosexual verses in the Bible were taken out of context. Some day I need to make time to investigate them.

We may differ on details, but it's nice to know we have the same goal.

TheRedneck