God Exists, Therefore Leprechauns Exist.

Thank you for making my point.

Given

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, fish don't live in the desert.

You conclude:

Then there is no God either.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that "God" is altered to "Fish" in your quote, you've provided nothing more than an example of a logically invalid argument.

A does not exist in set B so A does not exist - - - formally and irrefutably invalid

a reply to: imwilliam

No, the problem is with your example.

You've restricted it to the desert. Saying since we can't find fish in a desert we conclude there are no fish. But that isn't what's happening. Which is why how I see it vs. how you see it.

Let's me put it a different way so you'll see what I'm saying.

You're saying that aliens exist. That you know they exist. Yet you cannot show us aliens. You cannot even agree with other people who allegedly know aliens either on what aliens are or how they look or speak. You have no way of demonstrating aliens do in fact exist. But you expect others to believe YOU when you say aliens exist.

Why should we???
Why would you expect us to believe you???

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Indeed, and excellent reply by the way.

Have you also noticed that some if not most Murderers are thoroughly nice people when interviewed?

I love watching the crime channel and find this fact so odd. When interview, these deluded, psychopathic and warped people are quiet civil. Not forgetting the fact that half of them believe "the voices" told them to do it or they just believe chopping people up is totally OK and we are the odd ones?

Now, I'd like to say for the record, I'm not likening or branding Religious people (You used Christians, but we'll cover them all here) with the same iron here, but most of what "they" believe in does not exist? Are you following me?

So, to go with a "feeling", doesn't this strike you as odd, it does me?

1. "Why did you cut that person up"....."I felt it was the right thing to do, I was told to by God"
2. "Why did you invade that country and kill everyone".........I felt it was the right thing to do, I was told to by God"



Faced with overwhelming scientific evidence and facts, there is still 3/4 of the world believing in this tripe? Jeeez, we even swear on the bible in court, as if we will be punished by him if we lie? Yet no evidence EVER has been seen, heard or physically felt.......Just feelings??????? C'mon man? really?

This has to be my fave at the mo......It totally cracks me up.

a reply to: CaptainBeno

That's funny.

Another thing that gets me is that there are many Christians who love to say Atheists are attacking them and making them look bad or saying they're stupid etc. Which there are some atheists doing that too, we all know this.

But they never seem to admit that the ones really making them look bad are themselves. They need to do a little house cleaning before they start pointing fingers. Every time I hear some Christian Fundy saying that a flood or storm is the Wrath of God for Gays, or some other stupid sh*t to me that destroys their credibility. Because they just allow that thinking to be pushed in their name.

Now, to any rational person, even other Christians, that don't try and correct that, makes me not want to believe anything else they might tell me either. If you really think that's what floods are I don't care what else you might believe is true. If you're Christians and you think it makes sense for other Christians to believe that, then you must not really believe your version of Christianity is the correct one.

Allow me to say this...to all atheists. I as a believer have had numerous amounts of time in having trouble in believing God exists...yet I know he does...facing 18 to life in prison and hearing Gods voice audibly was a turning point for me. Alot of things happen to make us doubt...babies dying, people raped, good people getting what seemingly they don't deserve. Its almost a hassle to believe in a God who doesn't make it easy to believe. I'm not here to push you to believe that you need to give your life to Jesus....thats on you and your own decision. However I am here to let you know that regardless of what you see in this world, God is real...I am not sure about leprechauns...though God is capable of creating whatever he wants...and Satan..has the power to transform himself into an angel of light...so could be a great deception. God is real, God is there and God is existent. Everything in this world runs on a power source...yet our bodies run on its own accord...no power source no electricity...just the grace of God to let us breathe. I myself am a huge problem in Gods eyes...a lustful adulterous disgusting human being who thinks about sex on a constant basis..yet God still blesses me in ways unimaginable...that is Love...atheists dont believe in God because they don't know what love is...only the superficial feeling of concern for someone close...I am not hear to judge or cast that first stone...believe me I have had huge problems and issues in believing but ultimately..I KNOW without a doubt that God Is real. Such a cliche to hear that you know God exists by the trees and the birds or air you breathe....how you really know God exists is the fact that you are still standing and because you are....you obviously have enough grace in your life from God to get to where you need to be...with him and because..(another cliche) you have a purpose...lets not forget about about the opposition the devil...satan...lucifer...whom this earth really belongs to. He is the prince of this place we call earth. I will not and cannot tell you how to find God....except to only call on him and ask him to make a significant change in your life. Give him a chance as he has givin you one. And dont expect to get things the way YOU want them..thats part of the problem in not believing...we are selfish and want to use Gods own words against him...all the while he knows what's best for me...you..and everyone. Put yourself aside and let God do what knows is best for you and whatever happens take it...and you will see in the long run that it all worked out for the better. God Bless all of you who dont believe...and all though Lucky Charms is a great cereal....a leprechaun..whether they exist or not will ever give you a pot of gold big enough to ever surpass the things God has for you. Peace man.

a reply to: BlackProject

I ain't here to take places but this definitely takes the cake for all the years I've come to ATS, this first page up to here alone has more...sorry but...absolutely ridiculous and fallacious arguments that come from one point in the op Ill agree with publicly...just as was stated people create things and hmmm just clicking back three clicks for a ten second scan, things like "religious people age indoctrinated at birth," is so not the case as in the teenage years people shop around and in finding identity will choose a religion. Perhaps like you decided to be atheist? Or how you laugh at the Bible being rewritten every year to coincide with scientific discovery. Its one thing when people are sloppy in reporting fact here regarding news or pop culture but it speaks to your age and or maturity that you'd be so irresponsible and judgemental when it goes to things like this that civilized people with culture and IQ don't attack to a random forum of thousands. You're 17 my guess? And don't even come back with the whole religious people fought wars in history so you don't need to have class or tact. I've had all I can take of pitiable simpleton syndrome. Religious discourse and argument, great. But abrasive attitude backed up by arguments you...you....honestly I can't been imagine where you learned to reason in such ways. But the whole post reeks of Whiney disconnected from reality teen and typical atheist who can't sleep at night and gets worked up cuz other people believe other things.

The left gets better at defining things.

Eventually you'll be able to be both an Atheist and a Christian at the same time.

a reply to: CaptainBeno

Cold blooded murders are fascinating, to be sure.

Though I would argue there is a difference between those that kill/killed in the name of the Lord with a zealous nature, and those that simply heard voices they could not ignore. Perhaps a fine line, but I'm not so sure. And in the end, what does it matter? Some could make that argument.

I would argue there is a difference. Clear mental disorder versus passionate zealous belief. Discerning between the two could be difficult, depending on the case. Regardless, I understand the point I believe you make. Though I wish to stress I believe there would be a difference. Very dependent on circumstance of course.

Voices making demands or driving one to do... whatever, is discernibly different from those that do things because they felt God (or the Devil) lead them to do it. I suppose it's really a matter of opinion on where the line is, or even if there is a difference. I mean.. crazy is crazy, right?

I suppose I'm just trying to separate those who are really demented versus those who aren't.. Those who aren't, being those who feel/felt "a calling" if you will.. Not sure if I am articulating this in such a way that what I mean is understood.

Maybe to help, think about it like.. Cold blooded murder, versus revenge killing.

Not saying either is right or wrong. Catch my drift?

Anyway, whatever.

One of my biggest issues with religion is it leaves the door open for heinous actions. I don't give a rats #ing ass what this or that interpretation says.. Or how modern or archaic it is.. Power to those who find the peace and love.. It doesn't change the fact that things can be interpreted in ways I find vile.

originally posted by: imjack
The left gets better at defining things.

Eventually you'll be able to be both an Atheist and a Christian at the same time.

Sure. As soon as Christianity no longer believes in Personified Deities then we can call them Atheists. But until they remove the Belief in God Beings then they aren't the same thing.

It's got nothing to with the Left or Right either. It's about the definitions of words.

a reply to: BlackProject
Didn't fully read your OP but I get the jist of it. I've also wondered about this. I've asked the question on here before too. Do vampires and werewolves and ghosts and zombies and fairies and slender man exist too? Aliens? Santa Claus? The Easter bunny? Zeus? Unicorns? If you believe the god thing, how much further is their belief from magical monsters?

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: imjack
The left gets better at defining things.

Eventually you'll be able to be both an Atheist and a Christian at the same time.

Sure. As soon as Christianity no longer believes in Personified Deities then we can call them Atheists. But until they remove the Belief in God Beings then they aren't the same thing.

It's got nothing to with the Left or Right either. It's about the definitions of words.

Atheist just means they want some proof, I'm sure there are Christians that are interested in having proof, but categorize themselves as Christians still based on the rest of the details of their life.

a reply to: imjack

No, Atheist means someone who doesn't believe in Gods or Goddesses. That's it. It's the opposite of Theist which means belief in one or more Gods.

More specifically Personified Gods or Anthropomorphized Gods. Belief in some Universal Energy Life Force or something doesn't even count.

Buddhists are said to be Atheists too because they don't believe in Gods either. Gods are like Zeus or Shiva or whatever.

Although I suppose Atheists do want proof of things generally. But an Atheist can have all kinds of other various beliefs if they choose to have them. Just not that there are Gods.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: imjack

No, Atheist means someone who doesn't believe in Gods or Goddesses. That's it. It's the opposite of Theist which means belief in one or more Gods.

More specifically Personified Gods or Anthropomorphized Gods. Belief in some Universal Energy Life Force or something doesn't even count.

Buddhists are said to be Atheists too because they don't believe in Gods either. Gods are like Zeus or Shiva or whatever.

Although I suppose Atheists do want proof of things generally. But an Atheist can have all kinds of other various beliefs if they choose to have them. Just not that there are Gods.

It's synonymous with skeptic.

a·the·ist
ˈāTHēəst/
noun
a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

That 'Or lacks' part is what I'm talking about. It's not completely definitive. Many atheists are only atheist simply because God cannot be proven to them, while they follow pseudo-Christian lifestyles anyway.

The "Observer" exists ... it being a god in the biblical sense nope I'm afraid not, no beard, no long flowing gown but the blinding light part is.
Blinding Light= first thought/observation... observation is Creation.
All other things since that have arisen are also observed creation...absolutely everything then, now and yet to be.
Everything that senses.. Creates(even your cat), in effect the created also create but are quintessentially part of the original creator. Now it starts to get more intricate... there are 10 universes each having its initial creator but are observed/created, it seems to be a very deep rabbit hole.
As to mythical beasts and such? If they are thought of then it may be some residual indirect observation from another facet of creation("Spooky Action At A Distance")... So yes somewhere at sometime they are real but "God" is just another creator of which we all are. I'd say it's just a case of the Angelic/God types being a different type of being/creation... with more tools in their belts.

a reply to: imjack

Well ya, but that is a pretty significant difference though. I mean you can't exactly say "I'm Christian but I don't believe in God." That's like someone saying I eat meat all the time but I'm vegan. It just doesn't work that way.

Also, what do you mean they follow pseudo Christian Lifestyles?? What is a pseudo Christian Lifestyle??

originally posted by: BlackProject
"Let's imagine that we have a conversation one day and I say to you, "I believe in Leprechauns. You cannot prove that Leprechauns do not exist, therefore they exist." You actually have heard of Leprechauns. There are lots of books, movies and fairy tales dealing with Leprechauns. People talk about Leprechauns all the time. Leprechauns even have a popular brand of breakfast cereal. That does not mean that Leprechauns exist."

First you declare that Leprechauns exist in literature, movies, thoughts, language...
Then you declare, oddly, that this evidence of Leprechaun existence does not mean that they exist.
You are as confused as any atheist/believer.
Everything exists!
You seem ignorant of that Universal Truth and, thus, need to dance all around 'logic' (while not really touching it), just like your mirror images, the religious believers!
You believe that things/God doesn't exist, the religiously infected believe that God does exist.
There is no hard evidence or logic to support either 'belief'.
The only intellectually honest Perspectives are Agnosticism; if and when more evidence comes to light, I might fall to one side or the other, until then, I dunno, have no opinion, and 'experience/Knowledge' (not intellectual 'beliefs').
Atheism is just another belief based 'religion'...
And don't give me that mealy-mouthed 'merely lacking 'beliefs'; the reality is that the vast majority of atheists are willing to declare that there is no God, and that is not the mere 'lack' of a 'belief'!
The evidence in support is all over the net, all over this site!

a reply to: namelesss

That makes no sense though.

How can you say that "everything exists" while at the same time say there is no Things/God that exist at the same time.

You can't be agnostic about everything. There are some things that we can show exist and things that we can't show exist based on our definition of existence.

You can be agnostic about God, sure. But not everything. Even if you could be agnostic about everything then why say that Everything exists??? That's not being agnostic at all, it's the opposite. Agnostic means you don't know. But saying everything exists is saying you do know.

I don't think you said that correctly or you're confused about what those words mean.

originally posted by: jrome7812
Allow me to say this...to all atheists. I as a believer have had numerous amounts of time in having trouble in believing God exists...yet I know he does...facing 18 to life in prison and hearing Gods voice audibly was a turning point for me. Alot of things happen to make us doubt...babies dying, people raped, good people getting what seemingly they don't deserve. Its almost a hassle to believe in a God who doesn't make it easy to believe. I'm not here to push you to believe that you need to give your life to Jesus....thats on you and your own decision. However I am here to let you know that regardless of what you see in this world, God is real...I am not sure about leprechauns...though God is capable of creating whatever he wants...and Satan..has the power to transform himself into an angel of light...so could be a great deception. God is real, God is there and God is existent. Everything in this world runs on a power source...yet our bodies run on its own accord...no power source no electricity...just the grace of God to let us breathe. I myself am a huge problem in Gods eyes...a lustful adulterous disgusting human being who thinks about sex on a constant basis..yet God still blesses me in ways unimaginable...that is Love...atheists dont believe in God because they don't know what love is...only the superficial feeling of concern for someone close...I am not hear to judge or cast that first stone...believe me I have had huge problems and issues in believing but ultimately..I KNOW without a doubt that God Is real. Such a cliche to hear that you know God exists by the trees and the birds or air you breathe....how you really know God exists is the fact that you are still standing and because you are....you obviously have enough grace in your life from God to get to where you need to be...with him and because..(another cliche) you have a purpose...lets not forget about about the opposition the devil...satan...lucifer...whom this earth really belongs to. He is the prince of this place we call earth. I will not and cannot tell you how to find God....except to only call on him and ask him to make a significant change in your life. Give him a chance as he has givin you one. And dont expect to get things the way YOU want them..thats part of the problem in not believing...we are selfish and want to use Gods own words against him...all the while he knows what's best for me...you..and everyone. Put yourself aside and let God do what knows is best for you and whatever happens take it...and you will see in the long run that it all worked out for the better. God Bless all of you who dont believe...and all though Lucky Charms is a great cereal....a leprechaun..whether they exist or not will ever give you a pot of gold big enough to ever surpass the things God has for you. Peace man.

Funny how it took prison to allow you to hear Gods voice. No offence but this story is not new, I hear this all the time regarding people turning to God and believing. All people do tend to say to in your position is, God exists because I know he does. That is not proof.

The only spectrum of realism in this world is science as it slowly unravels everything we know about and gives us proof proper answers. Even religion now uses science to back up its own pointers, which is not religious points then they are scientific points.

originally posted by: AlexandrosTheGreat
a reply to: BlackProject

I ain't here to take places but this definitely takes the cake for all the years I've come to ATS, this first page up to here alone has more...sorry but...absolutely ridiculous and fallacious arguments that come from one point in the op Ill agree with publicly...just as was stated people create things and hmmm just clicking back three clicks for a ten second scan, things like "religious people age indoctrinated at birth," is so not the case as in the teenage years people shop around and in finding identity will choose a religion. Perhaps like you decided to be atheist? Or how you laugh at the Bible being rewritten every year to coincide with scientific discovery. Its one thing when people are sloppy in reporting fact here regarding news or pop culture but it speaks to your age and or maturity that you'd be so irresponsible and judgemental when it goes to things like this that civilized people with culture and IQ don't attack to a random forum of thousands. You're 17 my guess? And don't even come back with the whole religious people fought wars in history so you don't need to have class or tact. I've had all I can take of pitiable simpleton syndrome. Religious discourse and argument, great. But abrasive attitude backed up by arguments you...you....honestly I can't been imagine where you learned to reason in such ways. But the whole post reeks of Whiney disconnected from reality teen and typical atheist who can't sleep at night and gets worked up cuz other people believe other things.

Kids are indoctrinated at birth, end of that story.

I was raised in a family that did not follow any religion thankfully. So that is the reason I see clearly. I did not have to listen to the hog wash that parents feed their children from birth. My girlfriend alone did however grow up with such pressures and because of this to this day still effect her. She thankfully met me and I left her to see what she saw herself and she realised that it was nonsense herself. However many people in her position without the escape just follow along because if they do not, family rejects them.

You reply to me with what you say because the points I make are valid and true so its no wonder if angers you.

I am not hear to share personal details with you but my age is above 20, thank you. Considering your reply included the word,

up cuz other

makes me second guess why I replied.