You have been lied to : Christians , Muslims , Jews - all worship the same God

a reply to: Vector99

"Worshiping a belief, and willing to end a human life for such a belief...."

In Christianity you have the right to defend yourself but to kill is against God's commandments and therefore a sin. Just like lying or coveting. Just sayin

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
Nope...."WHATEVER" the heck this deity is (YHWH, ALLAH, BAAL, MOLOCH, etc.) ...they are all very similar in their personalities. Blood thirsty, killing indiscriminately, and judgmental as all get out. Doesn't matter if the names are different, the fruit they produce is the same.

Baal, Moloch..other names Apollo, Isis, Osiris, Ishtar, and of course Gilgamesh among many others were Nimrod. When people were dispersed from the Tower of Babel they took many different names for Nimrod with them. "YHWH" is the name referred to as God and the only path to him is through Jesus all others are lies and deceptions. Believe what you want its your choice, but beliefs and truth are not necessarily the same thing.

a reply to: JChrisD

Then why is it not a sin for God to kill?
He's a very double-standard orientated God, says one thing, does exactly the opposite...

originally posted by: JChrisD

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
Nope...."WHATEVER" the heck this deity is (YHWH, ALLAH, BAAL, MOLOCH, etc.) ...they are all very similar in their personalities. Blood thirsty, killing indiscriminately, and judgmental as all get out. Doesn't matter if the names are different, the fruit they produce is the same.

Baal, Moloch..other names Apollo, Isis, Osiris, Ishtar, and of course Gilgamesh among many others were Nimrod. When people were dispersed from the Tower of Babel they took many different names for Nimrod with them. "YHWH" is the name referred to as God and the only path to him is through Jesus all others are lies and deceptions. Believe what you want its your choice, but beliefs and truth are not necessarily the same thing.

Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.....but, His Father isn't YHWH. Jesus contradicted YHWH, broke YHWH'S laws, and never called His Father by that name. Jesus represented the real MOST HIGH, which is why He said "if you've seen Me, you've seen the Father". The CHARACTER of Jesus was nothing like YHWH.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

As noted I did say referred. Now if you are alluding that Jesus is not the son of the God of Moses and Abraham you are mistaken. You can take the word itself back to Hebrew with a substitution with "The Lord" or even KYRIOS if you like, doesn't change the fact that, as you stated, Jesus is the only way to our Father in Heaven. He came to earth in the form of a man and died on the cross for our sins and then defeated death after 3 days creating a new covenant so that we as sinners have a path to the Father. Failing to acknowledge this will get you the same in return. Don't get lost in semantics.

a reply to: GreenGunther

I guess you need to look at who died in those instances I can only suppose you are referring to. Sodom and Gomorrah? Pretty self explanatory and scripture backs it up. Or the flood and how God was merciful and brought Noah through the storm so that mankind could continue...still look at who and why they died. God has reasons for everything that occurs and there is no way we could even fathom his reasoning, although in these two instances it does give explanation if you are willing to look for them. Our Father and creator is merciful, and patient. We prove that over and over again.

originally posted by: JChrisD
a reply to: GreenGunther

I guess you need to look at who died in those instances I can only suppose you are referring to. Sodom and Gomorrah? Pretty self explanatory and scripture backs it up. Or the flood and how God was merciful and brought Noah through the storm so that mankind could continue...still look at who and why they died. God has reasons for everything that occurs and there is no way we could even fathom his reasoning, although in these two instances it does give explanation if you are willing to look for them. Our Father and creator is merciful, and patient. We prove that over and over again.

Still doesn't explain all the other atrocities YHWH did or commanded to be done.

one is a moon good and one is a sun god

a reply to: JChrisD

God has reasons for everything that occurs and there is no way we could even fathom his reasoning, although in these two instances it does give explanation if you are willing to look for them. Our Father and creator is merciful, and patient. We prove that over and over again.

Jesus' Father was merciful. YHWH was "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth", vengeful, bloodthirsty, misogynistic, petty, played favorites, and any god that wants animal sacrifice is NOT good. I don't care what explanations you or anyone else want to give. I've heard them all....and used to believe them. Not anymore.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I know of no "atrocities". Maybe if you gave actual references. Or even better pick up a bible and read about it first hand. Never trust anyone else to give you the truth when its available direct from the source. If you have issues with translations go online and find the Codex Sinaiticus and the Septuagint. I find references and corroboration with other texts help confirm the scriptures. I wont do the leg work for you but would be happy to assist

originally posted by: JChrisD
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

I know of no "atrocities". Maybe if you gave actual references. Or even better pick up a bible and read about it first hand. Never trust anyone else to give you the truth when its available direct from the source. If you have issues with translations go online and find the Codex Sinaiticus and the Septuagint. I find references and corroboration with other texts help confirm the scriptures. I wont do the leg work for you but would be happy to assist

I've already done the leg work. I was a Christian for over 2 decades...and not a pew warming one either. I studied the Bible in the majority of my spare time. My current Bible is in tatters and has both a Hebrew and Greek Concordance in the back.
If you want me to start somewhere, then I'll just give you the whole book of Leviticus.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Ahh yes I understand now, multi colored clothing and instructions to the Jewish people and Priests...such atrocities. Like I said you should really read things for yourself.

originally posted by: JChrisD
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Ahh yes I understand now, multi colored clothing and instructions to the Jewish people and Priests...such atrocities. Like I said you should really read things for yourself.

Do you seriously think I haven't?? Let me explain how I see the "Torah". It is full of hypocrisy. The "god" that is in those pages is not good. He is petty, bloodthirsty, misogynistic, covetous, kills indiscriminately, also orders others to kill "in his name", wants innocent animals sacrificed (who can't take away ANYONE'S sin...no matter how much you think so). He is also full of himself. Basically, he breaks all the "rules" that he expects all those who serve him to follow...while simultaneously causing them to break them, as well (you know...the killing and slaughtering part). Oh, and he plays "favorites".

So tell me....why was the Father Jesus showed us so radically different in character? Is "god" bi-polar?
The whole "sacrificial atonement" is bullcrap. From using animals for it...to Jesus being one, as well.
Jesus' message goes unheard most of the time, because of Saul of Tarsus...who carried the blood atonement story into the NT.
Jesus came to show us who and what the TRUE GOD was like.

This is actually from a post "wakeupbeer" made in 2014. I don't know how to link it to here, but the title is "Breaking the Strong Delusion..Our Morality vs. God's Morality".

He is just going on the god of the OT (pretty much the Torah)....here are a few points he made (which I found in my own studies). I'm just taking the short cut. He did a very good job.

Where do you stand on murder?

What does God have to say about murder?

Kill people who don't listen to Priests. (Deuteronomy 17:12)
Kill witches. (Exodus 22:17)
Kill fortunetellers. (Leviticus 20:27)
Kill homosexuals. (Leviticus 20:13)
Kill nonbelievers. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)
Kill followers of other religions. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12, Deuteronomy 17:2-5)
Kill false prophets. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5, 18:20-22, Zechariah 13:3)
Kill an entire town if anyone there worships another God. (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)
Kill women who are not virgins on their wedding night. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)
Kill people working on the Sabbath. (Exodus 31:12-15)
Kill sons of sinners. (Isaiah 14:21)
Kill in the name of the Lord. (Jeremiah 48:10)

Death for striking parents. (Exodus 21:15)
Death for cursing parents. (Leviticus 20:9, Proverbs 20:20)
Death for fornication. (Leviticus 21:9)
Death for adultery. (Leviticus 20:10)
Death for blasphemy. (Leviticus 24:10-16)
Death to followers of other religions. (Exodus 22:19)

Here's some more from that old thread......pretty dang good research, there.



Has God ever personally killed someone?


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Since large numbers of people often end up as meaningless statistics, consider the rough guide below:

20 million - In the global flood this figure is just over the maximum estimated human population before agriculture. Approximately the current population of Australia. It would take about a decade for this many Americans to die of natural causes. Actually, absolute terms aren't useful for this one as it was near-enough 100% of the population - imagine 7 billion people being killed should God decide to pull this one again.

185,000 - Assyrian soldiers killed while sleeping. This is greater than the entire multi-national coalition force at the peak of the Iraq War - so imagine losing that entire force in their sleep in one night. By comparison, the bloodiest battle (on a single day) in modern history would be the first day of the Battle of the Somme, where 20,000 BEF troops were killed. 185,000 is also the equivalent of 9/11 every single day for two months.

70,000 - Assorted Israelites, incidentally the same number of people who claimed to be Jedi in the 2001 Australian census. This is approximately the athletics capacity of Wembley Stadium.

50,070 - Assuming the higher figure, this is not far off the capacity of Yankee Stadium. Sports stadiums are useful comparisons because they're areas where we have photographs of that many people in close proximity and you can see how many it represents.

24,000 - Slightly higher than the capacity of Madison Square Garden for pro wrestling.

Of course, many of these numbers do pale next to what humans do to each other, and what the planet itself has thrown at us, but it is really the motives (or lack of) that should be truly shocking.



How many people are estimated to die at the Battle of Armageddon?


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"The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia."
—Revelation 14:18-20

Let's assume that 1600 stadia (320 kilometres/320,000metres) is the diameter of the lake of blood. Therefore the radius is 800 stadia or 160km. Let's also assume assume that a horse's bridle is approximately 1.5 metres from the ground, giving us its depth.

We can then calculate the volume of blood using the formula: V = ∏r2.. Using biblical value of ∏ = 3 we get the formula:

3 × 160,000 × 160,000 × 1.5 = 115200000000 cubic metres of blood.

1 cubic metre = 1000 litres

25600000000 × 1000 = 115200000000000

If we divide this number by the average amount of blood in a human body, 5.5 litres:
115,200,000,000,000 ∕ 5.5 = 20,945,454,545,500

So we find that according to scripture, at a bare minimum according to one interpretation, God will kill approximately 20,945,454,545,500 people. That's in the trillions.

However, since it says flows and not pools, it wouldn't be unreasonable to think that a river was formed. Assuming they measured the the blood-flow using actual horses, and a horse is 1 metre across.

320,000 x 1 x 1.5 = 480,000 cubic metres of blood.

480,000 x 1000 = 480,000,000

480,000,000 / 5.5 = 87,272,727

So, in another interpretation, God will kill a minimum of 87,272,727 to produce a horse bridle high blood-flow.



RationalWiki-Examples of God personally killing people


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And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.
1 Samuel 6:19



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And they set the ark of God upon a new cart, and brought it out of the house of Abinadab that was in Gibeah: and Uzzah and Ahio, the sons of Abinadab, drave the new cart. And they brought it out of the house of Abinadab which was at Gibeah, accompanying the ark of God: and Ahio went before the ark. And David and all the house of Israel played before the Lord on all manner of instruments made of fir wood, even on harps, and on psalteries, and on timbrels, and on cornets, and on cymbals. And when they came to Nachon's threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.
2 Samuel 6:3-7



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And a certain man of the sons of the prophets said unto his neighbour in the word of the Lord, Smite me, I pray thee. And the man refused to smite him. Then said he unto him, Because thou hast not obeyed the voice of the Lord, behold, as soon as thou art departed from me, a lion shall slay thee. And as soon as he was departed from him, a lion found him, and slew him.
1 Kings 20:35-36



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As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception. Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
Hosea 9:11-16



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And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
Ezekiel 9:5-7



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And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead.
Exodus 12:29-30



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And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.
Leviticus 26:21-22




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posted on Sep, 26 2014 @ 03:05 AM

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Every one that is found shall be thrust throug

a reply to: JChrisD

God has reasons for everything that occurs and there is no way we could even fathom his reasoning, although in these two instances it does give explanation if you are willing to look for them. Our Father and creator is merciful, and patient. We prove that over and over again.

Ok, we can't "fathom his reasoning". That's such complete and utter BS, it's "unfathomable". Do you really think slaughtering people right and left is the way to their hearts? Come on now.....use some logic. (not to mention all those defenseless animals he ordered sacrificed or he ordered killed...that's enough to let me know he's not good. I love animals. Any god that wants my love needs to love and protect them, as well.)

originally posted by: JChrisD
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

As noted I did say referred. Now if you are alluding that Jesus is not the son of the God of Moses and Abraham you are mistaken. You can take the word itself back to Hebrew with a substitution with "The Lord" or even KYRIOS if you like, doesn't change the fact that, as you stated, Jesus is the only way to our Father in Heaven. He came to earth in the form of a man and died on the cross for our sins and then defeated death after 3 days creating a new covenant so that we as sinners have a path to the Father. Failing to acknowledge this will get you the same in return. Don't get lost in semantics.

Yup. Jesus is the only way to the Father. He was born "the Son of Man"...meaning, He was fully a human being INDWELT by the Logos or "Word of the Most High". He was completely filled with the Holy Spirit, which is "Ruach Qodesh" in Hebrew...also a feminine noun. Huh, seems the Holy Spirit is a "she" and not "he". Dang those translators! LOL.
Also, the Essenes and Ebionites (which were different Jewish sects than the Pharisee's and the Saducee's), did not hold to the Torah the corrupt priesthood were using. It was basically "redacted and edited" after the Babylonian captivity. I believe "Ezra" had a hand in that.
Jesus was BORN on this earth, full of the Holy Spirit. His mission was to show us the REAL God. Not the one in the corrupted Torah. That's why He cherry picked it, changed the commandments of YHWH, and basically broke all of YHWH'S laws.
The corrupted priesthood killed Him for it....especially after Jesus ran all the money changers AND ANIMALS out of the outer courts of the temple. It wasn't because of shady money practices. It was because Jesus was livid over what they were doing to the animals "in His Father's Name".
The Essene's and Ebionite's were vegetarians.
Maybe YOU should do your homework/leg work.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Nice job of copying and pasting...sorry it took me so long to reply, I was lost in reading. Just kidding I am not about to read through an entire re posting of someone else's re posting...etc etc.

As most you are just repeating what you have heard and have not actually put your eyes on the texts themselves. Just as an example and because it stood out since a false belief states they are a "religion of peace" but do kill unbelievers.

"Kill nonbelievers. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)" If you picked up a bible and actually read through it instead of copying and pasting someone else's copying and past job, you would have seen this is where 2 MEN make a covenant between themselves and were not ordered by God to do it. Your entire argument is full of such holes. And now your putting physical attributes to the Holy Spirit which is neither or male or female but is in spirit form. And no Jesus did not break any of the commandments.

Mathew 5:17 "Don't assume that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill." - Jesus

You are right on one thing, it wasn't just about the money changers but the entire corruption of the Temple by the priests. More was going on behind the veil than what the people were being presented with. It wasn't about the slaughter of innocent animals. They were a commodity and a food source, not someones pets.

As a Christian I believe in free will and choice. Those choices you make will determine your eternity, choose wisely, it is your choice to make.

I expected more from ATS then people that just accept what is presented to them, I seem to have been mistaken. This is where I brush your sand from my boots and move on. Reply if you like I will not see it. And whether you accept it or not, our Lord in Heaven is merciful and does not change. He just isn't a wuss.

a reply to: Invicid

Been gone for awhile sorry for late reply.

It doesn't matter if they are fictional or not, they are based on the same subject matter and God, even if that God isn't real, it is irrelevant to the topic of the books, it is like saying the Star Wars saga or the lord of the rings saga aren't about the same groups of characters because they are fiction

a reply to: andy06shake

You must of missed what I posted on page 19, read #7

a reply to: pthena

I believe a couple things

#1 I can be tricked
#2 I have possibly been lied to
#3 I am human and flawed
#4 I was created and those flaws were intended by the creator
#5 the education system is set up so that we are conditioned to believe the teacher
#6 that makes us susceptible to learning from people who think they know the truth, but possibly learned a lie
#7 even though we have been taught what might be a lie, doesn't mean we are being lied to, and doesn't mean the lie is intended because the teacher might belive it to be true
#8 I hope I never get to the point where I think I have learned everything there is to know
#9 I have to remain open minded and skeptical
#10 I pray for guidance

edit on 27-9-2016 by fatkid because: (no reason given)