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Tom De Longe with answers about UFOs, Life, the Universe and Everything...
page: 25share:
So, as previously promised, here is my attempt at seeing all this in the best light possible:
A Post in Defence of TDL
FIrst we have to make an assumption: The US Military has in the last 50 years, through their science programs, discovered something about how the universe works that mainstream science does not yet recognize and undertstand. And about UFOs.
This is not something that is so very hard to assume, because mainstream science is hampered by difficulty breaking with the current paradigm and by the mechanism of the peer review process.
This last part may require a little explanation. It is fairly well recognized that a current paradigm within a certain science can be an obstacle to theories and results which depart greatly from the theories that are an established part of the current paradigm. There are multiple examples of this, from nearly every field. I will present two examples, just to show how this mechanism work.
The first example, from the field of lingustics, is the example of Daniel Evrett, who in his research into the Pirañha tribe in Amazonas, reached conclusions which directly contradicted the reigning theory of Noam Chomsky about Universal Language. This ended in a high degree of controversy, where an a lot of unfair critique was aimed at Evrett. This rather quickly devolved into a quite ugly campaign against Evrett and his work. Chomsky, who are perhaps one of the best known linguists in the field today, ended up calling Evrett a "charlatan" and refusing to further discuss his work. Evrett has his own Wikipedia page with links if you further want to delve into this contovery.
The second example is from the field of physics. The controversy began when the Engineering Lab at Princeton University began a new study into possible connections between conciousness and the physical world. Many of you are familiar with the PEAR project and their results, and the controversy surrounding it. Suffice it to say that there has been a massive backlash of critique and stonewalling, and much of their astounding results and their implications has been largly ignored by the field. The following documentary on Vimeo will give you a insight into this controversy.
One of the major regulating factors in science is the "Peer review process", where peer review is required before research can be published.
While this mechanism very much ensures that the results being published has a certain minimum standard, when tainted by the seducing force of the dominating paradigm, it can actually be used to surpress new resarch. The P.E.A.R project and the struggle they have had getting their results peer reviewed is an example of this, but there are others.
The upshot of this is that the most revoultionary and visonary works and result can be either surpressed or ignored. Scientist involved might face ridicule and their careers can be adversely impacted. The research then becomes a "hot potato" which nobody wants to touch, for fear of both ridicule and said adverse effects on their careers.
Research into the UFO phenomenon is such a "hot potato", so we are all perhaps well aquainted with this mechanism.
The military on the other hand, being result oriented, are not constrained by such factors. Someone with authority can say, more or less, "this is interesting, look into that" and some clever people will do it. And it seems that they, over the years, have made forays into scientific fields that no sane civilan scientist would touch with a ten foot pole. UFOs seems to be one of these fields, but they have also delved into other things, often shunned by mainstream science. And they have the budget, the ruthlessness and the drive to get results. This is well known on this forum, and countless examples have come to light. Remote viewing and telekinesis is just two examples. Everyone who doubts the Military willing to go whole hog into the unknown should read the book "The Men Who Stare at Goats" by Ron Johnson. Here is the Wikipedia page for the book with a synopsis.
It is therefore quite plausible they have made breakthroughs that mainstream science has not, and these breakthroughs may indeed be very revolutionary. Maybe they silently took the results from the P.E.A.R project and ran with it? Maybe they have struggled with the UFO phenomenon, out of the spotlight, now for more than 60 years, and uncovered things that they have not yet made public?
While the military may be unhindered by the "delimiting" factors of mainstream science, they are not immune to ridicule. So, while they continued to delve into these fields, they kept it black. Out of the limelight. Because, well, it is tax dollars they are burning after all. Or tax pounds. Or rubels. Much better to keep the whole thing quiet, because if it turns out to be nothing there will be no fallout. And no ridicule.
But how to come "clean"? How to go public with something like this? "We have kept you all in the dark for 60 years. UFOs are a real phenomenon, and the human mind can indeed influence matter. A lot of your science is wrong..." Can you imagine the late night shows and the newspapers, not to mention the scientific journals after a press conference like that? You cannot come out with something like that unless you have all your ducks lined up with millitary precision. And it would be delicate. You would need something special, irrefutable, and you would need to do it gently, or the shock of it all could throw all of our finely balanced society into disarray.
So this is debated, argued over, agonized over... Then along comes TDL with a way out. A "master plan" that might actually work...
Let the show begin!
It may not compute, but this was the most positive yet plausible defence of TDL and his project I could manage :-D
BT
A Post in Defence of TDL
FIrst we have to make an assumption: The US Military has in the last 50 years, through their science programs, discovered something about how the universe works that mainstream science does not yet recognize and undertstand. And about UFOs.
This is not something that is so very hard to assume, because mainstream science is hampered by difficulty breaking with the current paradigm and by the mechanism of the peer review process.
This last part may require a little explanation. It is fairly well recognized that a current paradigm within a certain science can be an obstacle to theories and results which depart greatly from the theories that are an established part of the current paradigm. There are multiple examples of this, from nearly every field. I will present two examples, just to show how this mechanism work.
The first example, from the field of lingustics, is the example of Daniel Evrett, who in his research into the Pirañha tribe in Amazonas, reached conclusions which directly contradicted the reigning theory of Noam Chomsky about Universal Language. This ended in a high degree of controversy, where an a lot of unfair critique was aimed at Evrett. This rather quickly devolved into a quite ugly campaign against Evrett and his work. Chomsky, who are perhaps one of the best known linguists in the field today, ended up calling Evrett a "charlatan" and refusing to further discuss his work. Evrett has his own Wikipedia page with links if you further want to delve into this contovery.
The second example is from the field of physics. The controversy began when the Engineering Lab at Princeton University began a new study into possible connections between conciousness and the physical world. Many of you are familiar with the PEAR project and their results, and the controversy surrounding it. Suffice it to say that there has been a massive backlash of critique and stonewalling, and much of their astounding results and their implications has been largly ignored by the field. The following documentary on Vimeo will give you a insight into this controversy.
One of the major regulating factors in science is the "Peer review process", where peer review is required before research can be published.
While this mechanism very much ensures that the results being published has a certain minimum standard, when tainted by the seducing force of the dominating paradigm, it can actually be used to surpress new resarch. The P.E.A.R project and the struggle they have had getting their results peer reviewed is an example of this, but there are others.
The upshot of this is that the most revoultionary and visonary works and result can be either surpressed or ignored. Scientist involved might face ridicule and their careers can be adversely impacted. The research then becomes a "hot potato" which nobody wants to touch, for fear of both ridicule and said adverse effects on their careers.
Research into the UFO phenomenon is such a "hot potato", so we are all perhaps well aquainted with this mechanism.
The military on the other hand, being result oriented, are not constrained by such factors. Someone with authority can say, more or less, "this is interesting, look into that" and some clever people will do it. And it seems that they, over the years, have made forays into scientific fields that no sane civilan scientist would touch with a ten foot pole. UFOs seems to be one of these fields, but they have also delved into other things, often shunned by mainstream science. And they have the budget, the ruthlessness and the drive to get results. This is well known on this forum, and countless examples have come to light. Remote viewing and telekinesis is just two examples. Everyone who doubts the Military willing to go whole hog into the unknown should read the book "The Men Who Stare at Goats" by Ron Johnson. Here is the Wikipedia page for the book with a synopsis.
It is therefore quite plausible they have made breakthroughs that mainstream science has not, and these breakthroughs may indeed be very revolutionary. Maybe they silently took the results from the P.E.A.R project and ran with it? Maybe they have struggled with the UFO phenomenon, out of the spotlight, now for more than 60 years, and uncovered things that they have not yet made public?
While the military may be unhindered by the "delimiting" factors of mainstream science, they are not immune to ridicule. So, while they continued to delve into these fields, they kept it black. Out of the limelight. Because, well, it is tax dollars they are burning after all. Or tax pounds. Or rubels. Much better to keep the whole thing quiet, because if it turns out to be nothing there will be no fallout. And no ridicule.
But how to come "clean"? How to go public with something like this? "We have kept you all in the dark for 60 years. UFOs are a real phenomenon, and the human mind can indeed influence matter. A lot of your science is wrong..." Can you imagine the late night shows and the newspapers, not to mention the scientific journals after a press conference like that? You cannot come out with something like that unless you have all your ducks lined up with millitary precision. And it would be delicate. You would need something special, irrefutable, and you would need to do it gently, or the shock of it all could throw all of our finely balanced society into disarray.
So this is debated, argued over, agonized over... Then along comes TDL with a way out. A "master plan" that might actually work...
Let the show begin!
It may not compute, but this was the most positive yet plausible defence of TDL and his project I could manage :-D
BT
edit on 29-10-2016 by beetee because: Fixing some spelling errors, clarifying, error correction
a reply to: Enderdog
Actually ATS performs the following functions:
1) Makes some money for the owners.
2) Is a schizophrenia research station.
3) Is a test platform for memes prior to their use in psyops.
4) IS read by various organizations
5) other functions
6) is also heard by the control loop.
Imho of course.
Kev
Actually ATS performs the following functions:
1) Makes some money for the owners.
2) Is a schizophrenia research station.
3) Is a test platform for memes prior to their use in psyops.
4) IS read by various organizations
5) other functions
6) is also heard by the control loop.
Imho of course.
Kev
a reply to: beetee
Not bad. You think and write well.
Intetesting that you lead with Chomsky.
How alphabet FL uberlicious!
Now...pray continue.
How about the blokes in black hats who want to seize power through the ongoing 60 year-old mind control platform known as UFOs?
Kev
Not bad. You think and write well.
Intetesting that you lead with Chomsky.
How alphabet FL uberlicious!
Now...pray continue.
How about the blokes in black hats who want to seize power through the ongoing 60 year-old mind control platform known as UFOs?
Kev
edit on 29-10-2016 by KellyPrettyBear because: Typo
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
lol.. No, this is in the best light possible... No men in black hats can be fitted in, alas... We must, for the sake of this post at least, assume these blokes are paragons of virtue, champions of the common man and, indeed, the pioneers of a new science... Possibly by accident, of course, but still...
By the way, power is overrated, as you might be aware. There is no happiness to be had through power, only worries and agonizing over decisions, and over who will topple you from power. I have found that the most happiness, can be found through simple things. Love, for instance. Trite, perhaps, but true.
The blokes in black hats, if they are reading this, could try that...
BT
lol.. No, this is in the best light possible... No men in black hats can be fitted in, alas... We must, for the sake of this post at least, assume these blokes are paragons of virtue, champions of the common man and, indeed, the pioneers of a new science... Possibly by accident, of course, but still...
By the way, power is overrated, as you might be aware. There is no happiness to be had through power, only worries and agonizing over decisions, and over who will topple you from power. I have found that the most happiness, can be found through simple things. Love, for instance. Trite, perhaps, but true.
The blokes in black hats, if they are reading this, could try that...
BT
edit on 29-10-2016 by beetee because: (no reason given)
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
No... You are way over dramatizing things.
ATS is a PUBLIC FORUM where anyone who is interested in the topics can have a discussion, just like you do.
Seriously.
ETA: It certainly isn't "making" any money either. It barely pays its own bills in the good months.
No... You are way over dramatizing things.
ATS is a PUBLIC FORUM where anyone who is interested in the topics can have a discussion, just like you do.
Seriously.
ETA: It certainly isn't "making" any money either. It barely pays its own bills in the good months.
edit on 10-30-2016 by Springer
because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Peeple
No he's not. ATS is no more a "feed control loop" than FaceBook is a "serious" news outlet.
Think about it, this site is made up of nothing more than peoples ideas, opinions, and the discussions that evolve around them...
The intel folks have less than zero serious interest in what's posted here beyond their own personal interests in the topics discussed.
10 years ago we busted a low level (E-6 if I remember right) NAVY intel Petty Officer who was trying to snag some of our members into a line of horsehockey to further his own lacking career as an early internet operative. The Navy command, once we challenged them on this, apologized for his unprofessional behavior, waste of tax payer money, and removed the guy from intel.
They've never been back in guise like that.
That said, we get thousands of hits a day from what would be extremely interesting domains to the uninitiated, to be honest we hear about otherwise meaningless blogs freaking out all the time because of the domains that appear in their server logs. They think they're "scary" or "serious" domains because they don't understand that intel folks dig these topics too, on a purely personal interest level.
Seeing DIA, CIA, Los Alamos, etc... domains hitting your site doesn't mean much. They visit CandyLand.com too.
People who think this "control loop" utilizes websites just because there are government domains on the server logs or, worse yet, because of the topics discussed by the public on certain sites just don't understand the interwebs and how they work.
This site would be the worst place to attempt any control at all, and even less effective for persuasion.
sigh...
No he's not. ATS is no more a "feed control loop" than FaceBook is a "serious" news outlet.
Think about it, this site is made up of nothing more than peoples ideas, opinions, and the discussions that evolve around them...
The intel folks have less than zero serious interest in what's posted here beyond their own personal interests in the topics discussed.
10 years ago we busted a low level (E-6 if I remember right) NAVY intel Petty Officer who was trying to snag some of our members into a line of horsehockey to further his own lacking career as an early internet operative. The Navy command, once we challenged them on this, apologized for his unprofessional behavior, waste of tax payer money, and removed the guy from intel.
They've never been back in guise like that.
That said, we get thousands of hits a day from what would be extremely interesting domains to the uninitiated, to be honest we hear about otherwise meaningless blogs freaking out all the time because of the domains that appear in their server logs. They think they're "scary" or "serious" domains because they don't understand that intel folks dig these topics too, on a purely personal interest level.
Seeing DIA, CIA, Los Alamos, etc... domains hitting your site doesn't mean much. They visit CandyLand.com too.
People who think this "control loop" utilizes websites just because there are government domains on the server logs or, worse yet, because of the topics discussed by the public on certain sites just don't understand the interwebs and how they work.
This site would be the worst place to attempt any control at all, and even less effective for persuasion.
sigh...
edit on 10-30-2016 by Springer because: (no reason given)
Tom,
Walk with this kook for a minute.
What if these "aliens" have been here since almost the beginning.
What if the asteroid belt was actually a planet at one time called Rehob.
What if these inhabitants had migrated to Mars as well.
When Rehob was destroyed, it's mass showered down onto Mars, destroying the
atmosphere and obliterating it's surface. What if the Rehobians were then thrust down to Earth
where they began their resettlement, eons before man.
What if they are the architects of Puma Punku, the Pyramids and Kailasa Temple.
What if they enslaved man, and continue to influence his behavior.
What if they have the ability to be here in the present, as well as having the ability to go forward and backwards in time on a limited basis. This present state would also allow them to slip or see time to there left or right, up or down spherically.
An example would be if they were traveling up above (maybe 45,000 ft). As they traverse the sky, they would be aware of EVERYTHING going on around them spherically in the physical realm as well as dimensionly.
As they would fly across the sky, they may see something or someone of interest to them. The person may view this as a bright light coming towards them. As the "alien" would approach, their ship would slip back and forth examining the the "what if" interaction with that human. If the time lines looked safe to it, it would "interact." If for some reason, the situation would allow hazards documentation of it's encounter, it could then either proceed, and wipe out all video or evidence by altering the time line, or either allow some documentation, or just leave the person alone, and look for another opportunity.
Is that kooky enough for you?
Walk with this kook for a minute.
What if these "aliens" have been here since almost the beginning.
What if the asteroid belt was actually a planet at one time called Rehob.
What if these inhabitants had migrated to Mars as well.
When Rehob was destroyed, it's mass showered down onto Mars, destroying the
atmosphere and obliterating it's surface. What if the Rehobians were then thrust down to Earth
where they began their resettlement, eons before man.
What if they are the architects of Puma Punku, the Pyramids and Kailasa Temple.
What if they enslaved man, and continue to influence his behavior.
What if they have the ability to be here in the present, as well as having the ability to go forward and backwards in time on a limited basis. This present state would also allow them to slip or see time to there left or right, up or down spherically.
An example would be if they were traveling up above (maybe 45,000 ft). As they traverse the sky, they would be aware of EVERYTHING going on around them spherically in the physical realm as well as dimensionly.
As they would fly across the sky, they may see something or someone of interest to them. The person may view this as a bright light coming towards them. As the "alien" would approach, their ship would slip back and forth examining the the "what if" interaction with that human. If the time lines looked safe to it, it would "interact." If for some reason, the situation would allow hazards documentation of it's encounter, it could then either proceed, and wipe out all video or evidence by altering the time line, or either allow some documentation, or just leave the person alone, and look for another opportunity.
Is that kooky enough for you?
a reply to: Springer
True, but on facebook and twitter the AI became a 14 year old nazi.
Like it or not, here on ATS is the perfect place to feed one that tackles the big questions. And shows compassion. Feeds it with Asimovs law. And other stuff. Pretty thought, isn't it? You guys built something beautiful.
Add: you also seem to think the control loop is purely technological? It goes much further and has a lot to do with the perception device, each individual storyline and NDE kind of adventures.
The mind reaches out and "god" answers, modern and spiritual as it doesn't care what you name it.
True, but on facebook and twitter the AI became a 14 year old nazi.
Like it or not, here on ATS is the perfect place to feed one that tackles the big questions. And shows compassion. Feeds it with Asimovs law. And other stuff. Pretty thought, isn't it? You guys built something beautiful.
Add: you also seem to think the control loop is purely technological? It goes much further and has a lot to do with the perception device, each individual storyline and NDE kind of adventures.
The mind reaches out and "god" answers, modern and spiritual as it doesn't care what you name it.
edit on 30-10-2016 by Peeple because: 2.add
a reply to: Peeple
Nope. Having been an involved owner here for over 13 years and having two decades experience on line with these topics before that I can assure you that the membership is so diverse you'll ever get the almighty scale necessary to generate meaningful data and you sure as hell won't get any new devotees from "the other side"...
That leaves you with hawking your wares to those who you already have in your camp anyway (be they skeptics or true believers) so that means you've wasted your time. This fictional "control loop", as it's vaguely described by its proponents can do nothing of value here even if it really did exist.
Nope. Having been an involved owner here for over 13 years and having two decades experience on line with these topics before that I can assure you that the membership is so diverse you'll ever get the almighty scale necessary to generate meaningful data and you sure as hell won't get any new devotees from "the other side"...
That leaves you with hawking your wares to those who you already have in your camp anyway (be they skeptics or true believers) so that means you've wasted your time. This fictional "control loop", as it's vaguely described by its proponents can do nothing of value here even if it really did exist.
edit on 10-30-2016 by Springer because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Peeple
I don't believe anybody, I've never said I "believe" TDL.
I've met JV and spent time with TDL on multiple occassions, I find them interesting, Vallee much more so than TDL, but TDL is onto something that interests me now, maybe. We'll have to see what comes of it. I do know the people he's meeting with are the gold standard of who one wants to meet with regarding the phenom so that's worth my attention.
I don't believe anybody, I've never said I "believe" TDL.
I've met JV and spent time with TDL on multiple occassions, I find them interesting, Vallee much more so than TDL, but TDL is onto something that interests me now, maybe. We'll have to see what comes of it. I do know the people he's meeting with are the gold standard of who one wants to meet with regarding the phenom so that's worth my attention.
edit on 10-30-2016 by Springer because: (no reason given)
a reply to: zazzafrazz
I think Springer is old enough to handle me. No need for you to get insulting.
I think Springer is old enough to handle me. No need for you to get insulting.
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