Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: SethTsaddik

The preserved word of God says Simon was called Zelotes, and quoted both is names, but never does it say hw is simont he zealot unless you use a version(not a translation) that has added words (which is a curse to any who do it) tot he B=bible to make their own doctrines.

Lu 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the [son] of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
Ac 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas [the brother] of James.

See you will accept the same wording and readings for Peter but will change it when dealing with Simon to suit your false teaching

Mt 4:18 ¶ And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
Joh 6:8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter'sbrother, saith unto him,

But as usual your wrong the word of God stands true.

a reply to: [post]84525]SethTsaddik[/post]
Here are your three Paul, The Holy Ghost, Jesus.

Just like Jesus used when falsely accused by the Pharisees.

Joh 6:8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter's brother, saith unto him,
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

You see, once again you want to allow certain verses to support Jesus Claim of having witness for what he does but when it comes to Paul you are biased and will not take the support of the Preserved words of God as found in the Holy Bible, where Jesus calls him (Acts 9), the Holy Ghost sends him (Acts 13) and the Paul him self bears the signs of an Apostle and one sent of God with signs and wonders (too many to list at this moment.)

a reply to: SethTsaddik

You know not the word of God as found in the preserved word of God and I have shown that evident throughout this thread.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddik

The preserved word of God says Simon was called Zelotes, and quoted both is names, but never does it say hw is simont he zealot unless you use a version(not a translation) that has added words (which is a curse to any who do it) tot he B=bible to make their own doctrines.

Lu 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the [son] of Alphaeus, and Simon called Zelotes,
Ac 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas [the brother] of James.

See you will accept the same wording and readings for Peter but will change it when dealing with Simon to suit your false teaching

Mt 4:18 ¶ And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
Joh 6:8 One of his disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter'sbrother, saith unto him,

But as usual your wrong the word of God stands true.

Like I said, "debating Christianity... Not so much."

Seriously, you are very good at hating Islam without knowing anything about it, stick with that.

Because you seriously are not knowledgeable about religion. Your's, mine or anyone's.

You have not argued a single point successfully with anyone and are doing Christianity a disservice by claiming to represent it's beliefs.

Only the average Christian is fully aware, despite personal feelings, that Judaism, Christianity and Islam have the same God, something you refuse to acknowledge.

Which means you either legitimately didn't know that or are not being honest.

Either way your credibility is 0.

And nothing you say of further interest to me as I would rather communicate with tolerant, knowledgeable people than...You.

Salaam Chester, it's been great exposing Paul and watching you try and debate only to be defeated by everyone you debate because Paul is a rotten apple and you can't see it.

We do... AND WE ARE LEGION.

LOL.

Is this little KJV only pseudo movement within Christianity for real?

Do people actually believe that the English language King James version of the Bible that used the NEWER and therefore less accurate MSS. of the Masorah is the ONLY Preserved Word of God?

Because that is just dumb. We have newer translations based on OLDER MSS. that have brought to light the inferior quality of the KJV beyond dispute.

We know more, not less, so why would an older and less accurate to the oldest Hebrew and Greek MSS. that we have (that are the oldest in existence) that weren't available in 1611 be considered more accurate?

The Dead Sea Scrolls hadn't been found and Rome was in possession of the oldest New Testament, any version that uses the oldest texts from BC and the first 4 centuries is going to be more accurate than a translation that uses only the notoriously corrupted Masoretic text and was translated by less educated folk.

But I guess people will use the smallest matter, fallacious notion or not, to display the "superiority" of their personal Christianity to that of those damn scholars, always making things more accurate and readable, who are such a nuisance to theologians with their pesky facts and corrections of errors of the past.

I can see why it would make a pastors job easier. Never having to be contradicted by advances made in scholarship.

But as a parishioner I would imagine wanting a more correct and readable version. You just aren't getting that with KJV because it was written at a time when we knew less and had less.

To not update knowledge and choose an inferior version of something willingly is madness.

You can like the KJV the most, but calling it, at the expense of legitimate scholarship and honesty, the ONLY Preserved Word of God is silly.

It isn't the only preserved word of God.

I respect the New Testament, but it is from the 4th century as we know it and not the apostles or disciples but ANONYMOUS for the Gospels and probably pseudepigraphal for the rest.

The Old Testament is full of ungodliness. Many times ordered by ''God."

I am an adult so I accept that and the fact that it wasn't meant to be understood literally, all the Truth in ANY Holy Book is hidden from the profane and taught only to those capable of understanding or learning on their own.

Meaning, if God does not want you to know what is meant you will not, and every religion has an outer and inner teachings. Or exo/esoteric.

Judaism has its Kabbalah
Islam its Sufism
Christianity its "Gnosticism."

And this is where the Real Wisdom is.

In Gnosis.

It really doesn't matter what your religion is because they all have that in common, the desire to "know" God. And not by what a book literally says but what it means.

Point being that there is no such thing as the one true Bible or Church or religion.

It's delusional to think otherwise. And fanatical.

There is something to be said for a religion whose own scripture can be used to demonstrate in myriad ways, not the least being in Paul's alleged own words, to convict it's formative theologian of being a liar and false prophet.

Because all that is needed to prove that the doctrines of Christianity are based on the words of Paul and not Jesus is the New Testament itself.

That Paul never met Jesus, hadn't the first thing to do with his movement or disciples and simply made uncorroborated claims to found a counter movement is all too obvious.

Jesus never claimed to be God but does that stop Christians?

Hell no. They don't really care. They might think it is a given but it is not. He actually denied it.

Whoever is responsible for turning Jesus into God did not get their ideas from Jesus or anyone who knew him, but from Paul who also didn't actually say that.

And Lord is not the same as God in Hebrew or Aramaic and a term used for men, Baal or Adon.

God is Elohim or Yahweh and neither means Lord.

Son of man also means a son of a man and not Son of Man, which is not God anyway.

I don't know, Christianity just seems like a mountain of lies that buried the teachings of a wise man, Prophet and Messiah to do the opposite and turn him into a god and God.

Jesus would never approve.

It's why God had to send Gabriel to Mohammed.

Clean up that mess of Paul's doing.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

Everyone reading sees that you will allow the same language of the Preserved word of God to support two names given for Simon Peter but refuse to allow the same when it comes to Simon called Zelotes (zel-lo-tays).

You came into this thread claiming to "KNOW" the Bible but yet you demonstrated you don't know the Bible at all. But you have a vast knowledge of the teaching of men about the Bible and some of the things found in it.

I have yet to show hatred for Islam but I will admit I do not like those who commit suicide bombings of non believers of Islam and Muslims, knifings of innocent men and women, Raping of innocent girls and women, burning alive of Muslims and Non believers of Islam, and truck rammings all in the name of ISLAM.

You, Matirx and Molocchino have only shown that you all err not knowing the scriptures when it comes to Paul, the teachings of Jesus, and Jesus revelation to Paul Expounding on those teachings because of his delaying the kingdom promise to Israel.

You yourself have showed hatred for Paul, Jesus, the one true God and his preserved word.

Your further ranting's, style of writing and your MO all show you are Gnosisisfaith resurrected once again.

I want all to see and know this when God inspired through David who was, like Jesus a Prophet, Priest and a King, to pen these words which if God says he will preserve his words to every generation then he has and it is up to you to find it.

Psalms 12:6.7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God said he would do it and he has. No need to doubt but like all else in the Bible one must have faith.

I have demonstrated throughout this thread 1) There is only one Bible that has all the words of God in it (whether men accept them or not). 2) Only one that uses equivalent broad meaning English words as found in the original languages of Hebrew, Greek and Chaldean. 3) Only one Bible defines those English words by the context in which they are written through inspiration of God (not by scholars). 4) Only one has a built in cross reference system that is not of men but placed in it by the Holy Ghost so you can compare spiritual things with spiritual as the Holy Ghost likes to teach. 5) only one that has led more people to Jesus Christ than all of the other 350 plus English versions out there. 6) the Only one that show that Jesus was the embodiment of God physically. 7) The only one that has the complete truth of the Gospel by God's grace through Faith only on the finished work of the cross of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins no matter which dispensation you live in.

God has done this through his own power and not by any man, for he is powerful enough to do it himself.

May this truth bless you all and Happy New Year!

A job well done is in order for Mohammed (pbuh) when it comes to eliminating the pagan tendencies of Pauline Christianity and giving people the opportunity that I have had to embrace pure Monotheism, Jesus and the Prophets without any sacrificial atonement for sin nonsense that Paul invented.

That may work for some but not I. Due largely to actual Bible study I came to realize Paul was a false prophet, THE false prophet, and thought, what now?

Then the country goes all Islamaphobe and a Republican presidential candidate starts bad mouthing Muslims and I think, yes, this could do.

I was all the more excited to learn that Paul was not a prophet like the apostles and Jesus and Mohammed were. All the real Prophets.

Thanks be to Allah for the Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)!

a reply to: SethTsaddik

If you had in deed done any serious unbiased Bible study you would have found as I when challenged by your first claims that Paul was a false apostle and invented Christianity under the user name Lastdays who like many of your other names were banned, I found just the opposite that Paul's teachings indeed are the same as Jesus just expanded upon, via Jesus by inspiration and revelation.

Again God's word is true and you are not.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

The Quran can be used to "can be used to demonstrate in myriad ways" that is why there are so many sects of Islam and why ISIS is killing other Muslims.

I would like to share a great example of the stupidity of Paul.

In Romans 3: 10-12

",... as it is written:
There is no one who is righteous, not even one."

Quoting from Psalm 14: 1-5 Paul is trying to make the case that none are righteous in the world. Despite the fact that there was John the Baptist and family who are called righteous, James the brother of the Lord is surnamed Righteous/Zaddik or Just, that is the least of Paul's error or deliberate taking scripture out of context.

Psalm 14 1-5 actually I'm context explains everything Paul is saying is true...is the doings only OF A FOOL!

Psalm 14:1-5

Fools say in their hearts, "There is no God."

They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds; there is no one who does good....

The sentiment no one does good is not a sweeping statement about the whole world.

But specifically about FOOLS.

Paul presents it out of context as proof that nobody is righteous AT ALL... ANYWHERE!!!

Either Paul didn't understand scripture or deliberately misquoted the Psalms, but it is only written that among fools (like Paul) no one is righteous.

And either way has proven that he is a fool as he identifies with fools and misinterpreted scripture in such a ridiculous way as to "prove" nobody is righteous.

But Psalms 14 is only talking about FOOLS.

Not the whole world.

Which means either Paul was stupid or a liar.

I say BOTH.

Thank Allah for the Prophet Mohammed!

Salaam

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddik

The Quran can be used to "can be used to demonstrate in myriad ways" that is why there are so many sects of Islam and why ISIS is killing other Muslims.

The Bible is 1000× more violent than the Qur'an.

I can see you are making statements without the facts.

The Qur'an doesn't order people to commit genocide.

The Bible does. Many times. Infanticide, fratricide, incest, rape, racial superiority.

Your comment is nothing more than a falsehood.

And ignores the many millions of people killed both in and because of the Bible, BY CHRISTIANS and for century after century.

It was the Christians who killed every Muslim in Jerusalem, man, woman and child.

And Jew. During the Crusades.

And their motivation was the Bible.

You are a giant hypocrite without knowledge who says anything regardless of truthfulness.

And you knowo nothing, obviously, about the Qur'an or the Bible or history or current events.

Just Christian anti Islamic propaganda.

Which is lies, not knowledge.

a reply to: ChesterJohn


All you do, Chester, is take the fact that a small minority of Muslims are at war and a smaller amount actually terrorists or ISIS members or even violent.

And take advantage of the popular ignorance that is prevalent in America among the already ignorant and intolerant biggots who say such trash like you do.

But the reason you do it is because I intellectually and using the Bible itself have actually exposed actual fallacies and lies in your Bible told by Paul.

Proven, not with propaganda or rhetoric but actual quotes, that Paul was a false prophet.

It's retaliation, from defeat, and out of desperation you recite the anti Islamic handbook lies like "Allah is a moon god" and "Muslims are terrorists, the Qur'an teaches terror."

Only problem is nothing you said is true, you have never read the Qur'an and don't know what it says, and your opinion is worthless, false and hate born.

And saying a book teaches something when you have never read it is dishonest to say the least, that the book doesn't teach what you claim is proof you have never read it so you don't know what you are talking about and are full of propaganda for the sheeple's consumption.

If you really knew what was happening you would not be saying this nonsense.

Also, if I didn't use your scriptures to prove that Paul was a false apostle you wouldn't be so obsessed with lying about Islam as a way of revenge.

But... you fail by falsehood.

a reply to: SethTsaddik

a small minority, roughly I billion people claim to be Muslims through out Indonesia, South Asia, Middle East and throughout Africa, not to mention the millions who live in Europe, Eurasia and the Americas so in the long run this is not about a minority, Muslims are not a minority when there are estimated to be over 1 Billion Muslims world wide. And 97% conflicts (wars) going on right now throughout the world it is Muslims who are at the forefront of these battles, all claiming to be mistreated and a minority which is a bunch of Malarkey.

I am not against and Muslim except those who hide behind Islam to war and kill. But in your prayer five times a day you pray for the success of Allah's plan and that plan is a Worldwide Caliphate (with or without a Caliphate) these small minorities are supported by the peaceful ones in prayer and funding.

Yours and my comment will be erased because it is off topic to this thread.

The only one who has been producing fallacies with the bible is you. I quote it in context and speak of only what it says and you hate the Bible for what it says. You quote it out of context to teach lies and distortions. to lead people to your religion of Peace.

God luck with that

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: SethTsaddik

a small minority, roughly I billion people claim to be Muslims through out Indonesia, South Asia, Middle East and throughout Africa, not to mention the millions who live in Europe, Eurasia and the Americas so in the long run this is not about a minority, Muslims are not a minority when there are estimated to be over 1 Billion Muslims world wide. And 97% conflicts (wars) going on right now throughout the world it is Muslims who are at the forefront of these battles, all claiming to be mistreated and a minority which is a bunch of Malarkey.

I am not against and Muslim except those who hide behind Islam to war and kill. But in your prayer five times a day you pray for the success of Allah's plan and that plan is a Worldwide Caliphate (with or without a Caliphate) these small minorities are supported by the peaceful ones in prayer and funding.

Yours and my comment will be erased because it is off topic to this thread.

The only one who has been producing fallacies with the bible is you. I quote it in context and speak of only what it says and you hate the Bible for what it says. You quote it out of context to teach lies and distortions. to lead people to your religion of Peace.

God luck with that

Wow, you REALLY hate Islam.

So what? Am I supposed to care? You aren't the brightest bulb as it is I really don't care about what lies you tell about my religion.

And there ARE 1.5 billion MUSLIMS.

NOT TERRORISTS.

A small minority of 1.5 billion, like REALLY SMALL, are involved with terrorism.

Not even 1%.

Are you that full of hate?

Why? Did Islam sleep with your girlfriend or something?

It's practically the same thing as Judaism and Christianity, you are only USING terrorism as AN EXCUSE TO HATE.

Because Islam really doesn't have anything to do with terrorism. It's just a religion.

And why do you refuse to learn anything truthful?

I don't care that you are a Christian or hate Christians, but you are literally being ignorant by definition and not to insult you.

You don't get anywhere by slander, Chester, and you are not a scholar or awake to the truth.

You are asleep to reality, religion aside, and I honestly pity you.

I will not allow the intolerant and biggoted to turn this into a thread about Islam.

Apologies OP, as much as I will defend the truth I am not going to let a biggot turn your thread into a place to express hatred and tell lies.

So I will no longer have any communication with one John Chester, because his only defense for his beliefs are to make it about Islam, and I know ats members are too smart to listen to him but this thread is not about Islam so nobody has a reason to call it terrorism other than hate.

And I will not participate in hate propaganda based conversations with someone who cares nothing about the truth.

The lies will have to be answered for to God, I can't stop lies. But I can and will ignore the isht out of Chester.

The worst type of Christian is the liar who engages in hate against the innocent.

And I will blow this thread up with Biblical anti Pauline facts.

Later though. I will defeat lies with truth, after I rest.

originally posted by: SethTsaddik
a reply to: ChesterJohn


All you do, Chester, is take the fact that a small minority of Muslims are at war and a smaller amount actually terrorists or ISIS members or even violent.

And take advantage of the popular ignorance that is prevalent in America among the already ignorant and intolerant biggots who say such trash like you do.

But the reason you do it is because I intellectually and using the Bible itself have actually exposed actual fallacies and lies in your Bible told by Paul.

Proven, not with propaganda or rhetoric but actual quotes, that Paul was a false prophet.

It's retaliation, from defeat, and out of desperation you recite the anti Islamic handbook lies like "Allah is a moon god" and "Muslims are terrorists, the Qur'an teaches terror."

Only problem is nothing you said is true, you have never read the Qur'an and don't know what it says, and your opinion is worthless, false and hate born.

And saying a book teaches something when you have never read it is dishonest to say the least, that the book doesn't teach what you claim is proof you have never read it so you don't know what you are talking about and are full of propaganda for the sheeple's consumption.

If you really knew what was happening you would not be saying this nonsense.

Also, if I didn't use your scriptures to prove that Paul was a false apostle you wouldn't be so obsessed with lying about Islam as a way of revenge.

But... you fail by falsehood.

The term qanna in Hebrew means zealous.

The Talmud calls Zealots Kanna'im.

My point?

Simon the Zealot was a literal Zealot and the epithet Canaanaen is a mistranslation.

Canaan didn't exist in the first century, so he obviously was not from Canaan, not even the town Cana.

Nope. Simon the Zealot or Kanna' is not related to the word Canaan.

This information is easy to find. I said I will fight lies with truth.

Lie #1 Simon the Zealot was a Canaanite and not Jewish therefore the reason there were 12 apostles was not because of the 12 tribes.
(Chester John).

Truth: Simon was a Zealot, Hebrew qanna or Kanna is from where we get Canaanaen, a misnomer and mistranslation.

Lie#2 The Bible is "the preserved word of God."

Truth: Many mistakes were made in translation, what we have is not the original Hebrew Gospel but Roman translations into Greek, full of human errors and not God preserved.

See Simon the Canaanaen for example.

The error of the translation of Almah into Greek for virgin, when it means young woman and not virgin.

I shall return with more.

Lie #3: Paul was an apostle.

Truth: Paul was never an apostle and didn't meet the qualifications having never met Jesus. He called himself an apostle on his own, was not considered to be one by the 12 who knew Jesus and was not trusted by them, despised them calling them ministers of Satan, more or less literally. The last time Paul was in Jerusalem he invoked Caesar and was rescued by Roman soldiers, a lot of them too.

Previously claiming willingness to die for Christ he puts faith in NERO to save him and basically goes into witness protection in Rome.

His fate is unknown and everything known about him is from the NT.

Nobody corroborated any of Paul's claim to revelations from Jesus.

Ever.