Did Paul Invent Christianity?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

You seem to think I don't know that the NT was not fully formed during Paul's day. But by the time Paul finished Galatians the book of James and Jude were already written. By the time Paul finished his letters to Timothy three of the four gospels were in possession of the churches. By the time John finished his gospel book of the life of Christ (Rev 1:19a Write the things which thou hast seen,), his three letters (Rev 1:19b and the things which are), and his book of Revelation (Rev 1:19c and the things which shall be hereafter All of the rest of what we call the NT plus some letters later deemed not canon, were in possession of the churches.

Copies of those letters were in Chaldean, Syrian and Ethiopian languages as well as Greek and Old Latin, Old Latin being the Latin language used before the time of Jerome. those books all came from the Eastern wing of the church and those bibles were sought out by the Roman Catholic church as early as 300ad and destroyed, later in 1000ad the church had the Latin Vulgate in place of all other versions and the doctrine that only the priest could read and teach the Bible.

RC Persecution later led to the reformation and the formation of four of the main line denominations other than the Baptist. Those being Lutherans, Methodist, Presbyterian, and the Episcopalian. These four denominations still carry a lot of doctrines from the RC with them. These four use the same Bibles as the RC, even the one you like and use is a RC approved Bible.

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Thats the problem with Fundies my friend...

The bible must be inerrant or their belief system crumbles... this is why they plug their ears and ignore when they are met with issues in the bible

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

The Bible is all about faith in God. If you don't then none of it matters.

Seriously Chester....your faith seems to be more in that dang book than in God Himself. Do you really think God can't speak to you other than "the book"???

a reply to: ChesterJohn

So If the Bible if fable, and historical fiction then you cannot even claim to follow Jesus because he was never real in your eyes. The Bible is false about his life historically and everything becomes allegorical and an invention of men.

That's ridiculous.....so if one see's Paul as false and a liar, they somehow can't believe Jesus is the TRUTH???
Do you not even hear yourself, Chester? It's not that Malocchio is pointing out Paul as being false...you just can't STAND anyone to challenge the Bible in and of itself! That's your problem. Do you know why?? Because, you have put all your "eggs in one basket". Point being, that if the Bible has ANY inerrancy in it, you don't know where to stand anymore do you? Your faith should not be in a book, or in "the inerrancy of scripture", but in GOD and JESUS and to trust in the HOLY SPIRIT which you should have IN YOU if you are truly born again, as Jesus said. You should be able to see the lies from the truth. Are you afraid that you can't?

a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

actually you are the two who have been indoctrinated.

I am a free man. You know only what some one else taught you. I know what God teaches in his preserved word by His Holy Ghost, comparing spiritual things to spiritual. And that is where we differ. As you will not convince me I will not convince you. for it is not the words of men that convince or convict it is the Holy Ghost that does that.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

You seem to think I don't know that the NT was not fully formed during Paul's day. But by the time Paul finished Galatians the book of James and Jude were already written. By the time Paul finished his letters to Timothy three of the four gospels were in possession of the churches. By the time John finished his gospel book of the life of Christ (Rev 1:19a Write the things which thou hast seen,), his three letters (Rev 1:19b and the things which are), and his book of Revelation (Rev 1:19c and the things which shall be hereafter

All of the rest of what we call the NT plus some letters later deemed not canon, were in possession of the churches.

Copies of those letters were in Chaldean, Syrian and Ethiopian languages as well as Greek and Old Latin, Old Latin being the Latin language used before the time of Jerome. those books all came from the Eastern wing of the church and those bibles were sought out by the Roman Catholic church as early as 300ad and destroyed, later in 1000ad the church had the Latin Vulgate in place of all other versions and the doctrine that only the priest could read and teach the Bible.

RC Persecution later led to the reformation and the formation of four of the main line denominations other than the Baptist. Those being Lutherans, Methodist, Presbyterian, and the Episcopalian. These four denominations still carry a lot of doctrines from the RC with them. These four use the same Bibles as the RC, even the one you like and use is a RC approved Bible.

Hmmmm....did you also know that Paul's letters were written way before the "gospels". Huh, so it seems Paul got a head start on the true disciples/apostles stories of Jesus. Wonder why that is? I find it compelling that "the enemy" went to work pretty quickly....in order to sabotage the true message of Jesus.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

actually you are the two who have been indoctrinated.

Indoctrinated into what?

knowing the bible has issues?

That only comes from reading and studying my friend.... Not being told something

You are the one taking a single passage in Psalms, and turning it into an entire belief system

a reply to: Malocchio

Why emulate Christ at all seeing Jesus so called life in your mind was historical fiction.

Jews were told to be born again and when Peter used the term he too was speaking to Jews.

We are the body of Christ not born again.

But then again just throw your bible away it is nothing more than equal to that of Edgar Allen Poe.

a reply to: Akragon

Care to elaborate on what the end was you saw?

If you are being serious I am interested in hearing that testimony of the end.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

Care to elaborate on what the end was you saw?

If you are being serious I am interested in hearing that testimony of the end.

I already explained where i work...

Death is all over the place there... And its rarely a pretty thing... though its almost always necessary, and a good thing when it happens

a reply to: JohnPrewett

John, these guys think that the Bible is a work of men and thereby will say that men have led men astray for 1900, and that only Jesus should be emulated, while out the other side of their mouths they say the Bible if historical fiction and nothing more that things copied from other peoples before them.

I don't understand if they think the bible if false, fiction and fantasy why even waste your time proving Paul is a false prophet.

It makes no sense.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Pretty sure the gospels have been there the entire time...

You have your choice who you want to believe is correct...

You've stated yourself that you take Pauls words over Jesus... Thus you have led yourself astray

Or whoever taught you did... either way

a reply to: Akragon

Oh Yeah I read that but I too see death everyday.

I work at times in hospice unite in our hospital. It is where the dying go for their final days basically. Some have clung on for long periods of time and other goes very quickly, but all men, me and you included will die. These bodies will give out and we will die.

Death is all part of the curse from Adam and Eve for choosing to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil passed on to us. You on one hand may believe there is something else, maybe reincarnation or another parallel universe. May be you just believe after this there is nothing.

Have you seen what may be ghosts where you work?

a reply to: Akragon
basically it is your assumption of what I have believed but you have missed the fullness of what I believe. I have not once denied Christ or his words. I just know what it for whom and why.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Death is all part of the curse from Adam and Eve for choosing to eat of the fruit of the tree of good and evil passed on to us. You on one hand may believe there is something else, maybe reincarnation or another parallel universe. May be you just believe after this there is nothing.

Well... Death isn't a myth, or part of one... Adam and eve have nothing to do with it

What comes next... no one knows, but i do know its not "the end"... Just the end of the body

Have you seen what may be ghosts where you work?

Unfortunately i am not blessed with such a gift... but i know many who have seen those that have passed still walking the home

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon
basically it is your assumption of what I have believed but you have missed the fullness of what I believe. I have not once denied Christ or his words. I just know what it for whom and why.

Just going by your own words brother...

Yours is a curious belief system... but Paulian none the less

In any case you have no interest in proving anything... just believing blindly

You believe in Adam and eve... which is an impossible story... same with the world wide flood... and only because they are between the covers of a book

You're welcome to believe what you will... but we are also welcome to show your beliefs to be false, just as you are as well with us...

As long as its civil i have no issues

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: JohnPrewett

John, these guys think that the Bible is a work of men and thereby will say that men have led men astray for 1900, and that only Jesus should be emulated, while out the other side of their mouths they say the Bible if historical fiction and nothing more that things copied from other peoples before them.

I don't understand if they think the bible if false, fiction and fantasy why even waste your time proving Paul is a false prophet.

It makes no sense.

How bout this...WE believe in Jesus. Bottom line. We believe HIS words should be followed over all others (including Paul's). Why is that such a "thorn in your side", Chester?

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon
basically it is your assumption of what I have believed but you have missed the fullness of what I believe. I have not once denied Christ or his words. I just know what it for whom and why.

THEN QUOTE HIM (Jesus)....just HIM. Not Paul, just Jesus. Use Jesus to defend your faith. Can you?

As Messiah watched the NT canon being determined,
Those who denigrate the apostle Paul must think:
Messiah must have thought something like:

'Oh no .... they are screwing up. They are putting letters of that deceiver Paul into the canon of scripture. Oh, this is terrible ....This will mislead billions of people for centuries. Billions lost-doomed because of the lies they will think are true since they will be called “scripture.” I'd like to keep them from making this mistake, but I don't know how. Sure wish there was something I could do about it.'
*************************

Those denigrating apostle Paul just don't know the Messiah and are working for Satan whether they know it or not.

[As Saul/Paul worked for Satan ignorantly before he was converted and made a great apostles of the Messiah]

When He saw their faith, He said to him, “Man, your sins are forgiven you.” Luke 5:20
He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.” Luke 7:50

To people "under the Law" ... People whose leaders insisted that Salvation be tied to Law keeping,

Jesus revealed salvation by faith in Himself.

The great ministry Jesus gave Paul was for Paul to proclaim and expound on the claim of "salvation via faith apart from the Law .....
IN LIGHT OF THE LAW.

Paul was and IS bitterly opposed by and hated by those who STILL insist that salvation is tied to Law Keeping.