Humor me, ATS, do you see a RAISED seal on the back of Obama’s short form birth certificate?

a reply to: GreenGunther

Why did you ask this question then?

I thought this site was about truth?

This thread isn't presenting truth. It's presenting a bias conclusion that has been supported after it had been reached by the author's research. Do you think that the OP actually believed that Obama's BC was legit and this research changed her mind? Of course not. People on ATS don't do research like that. Deny Ignorance is just a cliche around here. It really should read. Support Your Chosen Echo Chamber.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The researcher might be biased, even so, the lengths she went to, to research this topic is pretty good. Just for presenting evidence that's not napkin drawings she gets points in my book.

I never said any of this is true, but it might aid us in our search for truth.
I did clarify in a previous post how I should have worded "I thought this site was about truth?".

I apologise for the above statement as it does not clarify my perspective and was typed hastily.
I'll think it through more thoroughly next time.

But for now I think this thread is informative - that is my perspective. You are welcome to disagree, that's what this is all about.

Please remember I take everything with a pinch of salt and there is little that I believe in fully.
Truth is a fickle mistress.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: schuyler
THIS conspiracy theory relies on speculation, circumstantial evidence, and EXTREME bias against Obama. Oh and a very loose interpretation of Presidential qualifications since Obama is an American by his mom alone.

Good Lord! Why are you so hostile! I provided some value-added information on the issue. I ALSO SAID QUITE CLEARLY that this information did not mean Obama was born elsewhere and that he very well could have been born just like they say he was.

I'm sorry that you find such information disturbing, but the fact is that this is symptomatic of a great many things about Obama that have remained hidden. He has the LEAST TRANSPARENT BACKGROUND of any President in history.

So sorry discussing such a thing causes so much grief.

a reply to: GreenGunther

I mean fair enough. If you get something out of it. Great. I just see a dead end that has been thoroughly explored enough as is and fail to see the reasoning behind continuing to explore it.

a reply to: schuyler

That's actually my opinion. Though only hostility I leveled at you was for kneejerk calling me an Obama supporter JUST because I don't agree with this CT. If you don't want me to get hostile for things like that, then respect the people you are talking to and just stick to the issues and don't debate or assume things about the person you are talking to.

He has the LEAST TRANSPARENT BACKGROUND of any President in history.

Have you actually researched this claim lately to see it if is just as true as when people derisively jumped on it back in 2008?

This article, penned in 2015, says it is complicated and is really neither the most transparent nor the least transparent.
Has Obama delivered the ‘most transparent’ administration in history?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GreenGunther

Why did you ask this question then?

I thought this site was about truth?

This thread isn't presenting truth. It's presenting a bias conclusion that has been supported after it had been reached by the author's research. Do you think that the OP actually believed that Obama's BC was legit and this research changed her mind? Of course not. People on ATS don't do research like that. Deny Ignorance is just a cliche around here. It really should read. Support Your Chosen Echo Chamber.

my god.

how much more right can you be in a single post.
my hats off to you.
this summarizes the current trend on ats during this election cycle.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: GreenGunther

This thread isn't presenting truth. It's presenting a bias conclusion that has been supported after it had been reached by the author's research.

BS. The seal is wrong... period. Whether the OP is biased or not is irrelevant.

a reply to: Bone75
What ever you want to believe to justify your biases. Knock yourself out. Clearly if you are still invested in this conspiracy theory to actually still believe it, nothing I say or do will change your mind.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
on a thread that's 8 years old it

What are you babbling about? This thread is not even a day old, not 8 years old!

What is 8 years old are all the lies and silly stories birthers have made up!

You're right, this thread is new however my brain isn't fully functional until my 3rd cup.
ATS in the morning or how to make yourself look stupid.

I'm guessing Obama's convention speech got under alot of skin on this forum, hence this thread.

Hawaii have verified Obama's birth in Hawaii, have verified his birth certificate. It's done. If there was something out there proving Obama was born in Kenya or that his father is Lex Luther or whatever, Republican officials would've brought it up, as would've the Hillary Camp.

You've got him for 6 months folks... and then Hillary for at least 4 years

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
nothing I say or do will change your mind.

You could try posting birth certificates issued by Hawaii in 2007 that share the same discrepancy as Obama's.

Simply repeating "nuh uh" 100 different ways doesn't cut it with me.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
nothing I say or do will change your mind.

You could try posting birth certificates issued by Hawaii in 2007 that share the same discrepancy as Obama's.

Simply repeating "nuh uh" 100 different ways doesn't cut it with me.

Oh, those are out there. Unfortunately, none of the owners of these alleged birth certificates posted online are willing to let the Hawaii Department of Health authenticate and verify them for me.

Their stories are actually far more interesting than anything else I've written in this thread.

a reply to: reldra

The birth certificate is real.

If it's real, why did it take him so long to release it?

a reply to: BLee8127

What are you talking about? He released his short form birth certificate in 2008 during his primary run (the kind of short form most people actually have, including myself) and then the original long form in 2011. Both have been verified by Hawaiian officials, ample information out there.

People such as yourself I'd assume probably refuse to believe their authenticity because, Obama, you know?

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: BLee8127

What are you talking about? He released his short form birth certificate in 2008 during his primary run (the kind of short form most people actually have, including myself) and then the original long form in 2011. Both have been verified by Hawaiian officials, ample information out there.

People such as yourself I'd assume probably refuse to believe their authenticity because, Obama, you know?

If Obama already made his short and long form birth certificates public, why does the Hawaii Department of Health claim they are still private and refuse to make them public?

It's not as if the Hawaii Office of Information Practices hasn't declared other statutorily protected documents are public because they were voluntarily already publicly released.

They have: Link to formal OIP opinion on Coach June B. Jones

And as they stated in the above opinion, once information and records have been voluntarily made public, you cannot "unring that bell" by withholding them pursuant to privacy laws.

If you could, then anyone could make any false claims to the public they wanted without any recourse on the part of the public.

"X water treatment plant is polluting our water with poison according to EPA documents! They must be stopped!"

You honestly think the public and X water treatment do not have a legal right to the information straight from the EPA even if a document is protected by a law says otherwise?

They do. And that is the actual case history of the opens records law in Hawaii as it applies to Obama's birth certificate.

It's already PUBLIC. No law in Hawaii protects it from being made public AGAIN.

Unless...it hasn't actually been made public, at all.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
nothing I say or do will change your mind.

You could try posting birth certificates issued by Hawaii in 2007 that share the same discrepancy as Obama's.

Simply repeating "nuh uh" 100 different ways doesn't cut it with me.

You're right I could do that. That is TOTALLY something I could do, but then again that would contradict my previous statement where I said that nothing I said or showed you would change your mind if you are still believing this tripe.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Southern Guardian
a reply to: BLee8127

What are you talking about? He released his short form birth certificate in 2008 during his primary run (the kind of short form most people actually have, including myself) and then the original long form in 2011. Both have been verified by Hawaiian officials, ample information out there.

People such as yourself I'd assume probably refuse to believe their authenticity because, Obama, you know?

If Obama already made his short and long form birth certificates public, why does the Hawaii Department of Health claim they are still private and refuse to make them public?

It's not as if the Hawaii Office of Information Practices hasn't declared other statutorily protected documents are public because they were voluntarily already publicly released.

They have: Link to formal OIP opinion on Coach June B. Jones

And as they stated in the above opinion, once information and records have been voluntarily made public, you cannot "unring that bell" by withholding them pursuant to privacy laws.

If you could, then anyone could make any false claims to the public they wanted without any recourse on the part of the public.

"X water treatment plant is polluting our water with poison according to EPA documents! They must be stopped!"

You honestly think the public and X water treatment do not have a legal right to the information straight from the EPA even if a document is protected by a law says otherwise?

They do. And that is the actual case history of the opens records law in Hawaii as it applies to Obama's birth certificate.

It's already PUBLIC. No law in Hawaii protects it from being made public AGAIN.

Unless...it hasn't actually been made public, at all.

And, BTW, I have an appeal pending with Hawaii Office of Information Practices on the exact argument above.

That's right. I have been waiting FIVE years for a formal opinion on this matter.

And the agency has stonewalled claiming they are backlogged by THREE years beyond the statute of limitations to bring this matter to court.

I have been waiting five years to exhaust my administrative remedies as expected by a Court of law.

THAT is how little oversight power We, the People, have over our government.

ETA: And why are they stonewalling? Because to rule against me would UNDO their entire Sunshine Information laws. It would set a precedent that would prevent the People from holding government accountable.

They cannot rule on this. Because they would have to rule in my favor or undo their own freedom of information laws with case precedent.

Ok.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
If Obama already made his short and long form birth certificates public, why does the Hawaii Department of Health claim they are still private and refuse to make them public?

Hawaii advised Obama's long form birth certificate was private, this was before Obama voluntarily released it to the public in 2011.

Now with relation to comments from Hawaiian officials on Obama's birth certificate (both short form and long form):

To verify we did indeed have the correct document, we contacted the Hawaii Department of Health, which maintains such records.
"It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," spokesman Janice Okubo said June 13, 2008.

www.politifact.com...

"They're just words," said spokeswoman Janice Okubo. "That (what was posted on the Internet) is considered a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii."

"When you request a birth certificate, the one you get looks exactly like the one posted on his site," she said. "That's the birth certificate."

www.politifact.com...

Here are corrosponding emails between the whitehouse and the Hawaiin department of health requesting the release of the long form birth certificate:
hawaii.gov...

Here is another official statement from current Hawaiian department of health director, Loretta Fuddy, confirming the long form birth certificate that they released to the whitehouse, and confirming it's authenticity:

The Hawai„i State Health Department recently complied with a request by President Barack Obama for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth, which is sometimes referred to in the media as a “long form” birth certificate.

hawaii.gov...

Swills also clearly showed you that his birth certificate doesn't even have a seal. You refuse to listen. Hawaiian officials have confirmed Obama's birth certificate is valid, but this isn't accepted by you. Anything counter to your OP, you refuse to believe. You're clearly not interested in the facts at hand here.

It's idiocy. Have you thought to consider the sheer extent of such a conspiracy if Obama's birth certificate were actually fake? Extending to the Bush administration, Republicans, officials at Hawaii, democrats, Hillary's 2008 campaign, all in on it. You really do not understand how silly the birther argument is once you look at the guts of the entire thing. FBI, CIA. Really now.

a reply to: Southern Guardian

You entirely avoided responding to my point.


If Obama has made both his short and long forms public, they are no longer private. There is no law in Hawaii that protects the privacy of public documents.

I have requested the exact documents Obama made public and was told they are still private.

In other words, the law indicates whatever he released is NOT what the Hawaii Department of Health has registered and on file.

Obama's birth certificate is still private and protected by privacy laws. There's no way around it. Whatever he has made public is NOT protected by privacy laws.

That's just how the law works and it tells the story.

There's really only this to consider....

Either President Obama's Birth Certificate is fake or real.

If it's real, all of this questioning about it is just a distraction and plan to divide us as a country by the Right wings here in USA.

If it's fake...then it's more troubling than that. It would mean this. Of all the Billionaires, right wing media personalities and outlets, Generals, Judges, Lawyers, Senators, Assembly men and women, governors, CIA-NSA-FBI agents, Police officers, journalists, investigators, hackers, Majors, Admirals, editors, Foreign heads of state, Republican Party agents, volunteers....I mean everyone! It would be impossible for them all to be this inept. That would defy reason. Therefore, Everyone in power on the right is in on it. That's what this would mean. Just think about that.

So, here on ATS, if you believe that Obama's Birth Certificate is fake, that means you believe that It's a right wing/republican conspiracy to keep him in office. So....where does that leave your belief system?