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Revelation 17...???
page: 14share:
a reply to: NOTurTypical
Quite simply...
Jesus didn't teach a triune God.
the whole trinity idea didn't come til much later... Kinda funny that you mentioned shoehorning in another post
Quite simply...
Jesus didn't teach a triune God.
the whole trinity idea didn't come til much later... Kinda funny that you mentioned shoehorning in another post
a reply to: Akragon
He said He and His Father were one, He said blasphemy against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven, you can only blaspheme God, He said if you have seen Him you have seen the Father, and He said He was the I AM. He was killed for the crime of blasphemy, making Himself equal with God.
That's 3 persons of the one God.
He said He and His Father were one, He said blasphemy against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven, you can only blaspheme God, He said if you have seen Him you have seen the Father, and He said He was the I AM. He was killed for the crime of blasphemy, making Himself equal with God.
That's 3 persons of the one God.
edit on 4-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
a reply to: NOTurTypical
One essence... Not one and the same
Ah but that idea has never been clear theres only theories, and i have my own thoughts on said subject.
Which means he pre-existed this incarnation... nothing more
And he didn't say he was the I AM... He said before Abraham was I AM...
Said passage was a misunderstanding on the Jews part... he clearly did not consider himself equal to the Father... and says so in three passages in John
Exactly what i meant by shoehorning
He said He and His Father were one,
One essence... Not one and the same
He said blasphemy against the Holy Spirit won't be forgiven, you can only blaspheme God
Ah but that idea has never been clear theres only theories, and i have my own thoughts on said subject.
and He said He was the I AM
Which means he pre-existed this incarnation... nothing more
And he didn't say he was the I AM... He said before Abraham was I AM...
He was killed for the crime of blasphemy, making Himself equal with God.
Said passage was a misunderstanding on the Jews part... he clearly did not consider himself equal to the Father... and says so in three passages in John
That's 3 persons of the one God
Exactly what i meant by shoehorning
a reply to: Akragon
You are right, He didn't say He was the I AM, as in past tense. He is the I AM. A direct reference to God speaking to Moses from the burning bush. Here, I posted this earlier and have it posted on the wall on my profile. Here are several acts of God in the Bible, sometimes it says the Father did it, some places it says the Son did it, other places it says the Holy Spirit did it, and even yet other places it generically says God did it. You can look them up and see for yourself if you want to friend:
You are right, He didn't say He was the I AM, as in past tense. He is the I AM. A direct reference to God speaking to Moses from the burning bush. Here, I posted this earlier and have it posted on the wall on my profile. Here are several acts of God in the Bible, sometimes it says the Father did it, some places it says the Son did it, other places it says the Holy Spirit did it, and even yet other places it generically says God did it. You can look them up and see for yourself if you want to friend:
SCRIPTURES SUPPORTING THE TRINITY IN THE BIBLE
Who raised Jesus from the dead?
The Father (Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes 1:10)
The Son (John 2:19-21, 10:17-18),
The Spirit (Rom 8:11) or
God (Heb 13:20,Acts13:30,17:31)
Who is God?
The Father (Eph 4:6)
The Son (Tit 2:13, John 1:1, 20:28, 9:35-37)
The Spirit (Gen 1:2, Ps 104:30) or
God (Gen 1:1, Heb 11:3)
Who saves mankind?
The Father (I Pet 1:3)
The Son (John 5:21, 4:14)
The Spirit (John 3:6, Tit 3:5) or
God (I John 3:9)
Who justifies man?
The Father (Jer 23:6, II Cor 5:19)
The Son (Rom 5:9, 10:4, II Cor 5:19,21)
The Spirit (I Cor 6:11, Gal 5:5) or
God (Rom 45:6, 9:33)
Who sanctifies man?
The Father (Jude 1),
The Son (Tit 2:14),
The Spirit (I Pet 1:2) or
God (Ex 31:13)
edit on 4-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
a reply to: NOTurTypical
No need brother i know all the Trinitarian "proof texts" that are in the bible...
Fact remains Jesus didn't teach a trinity, nor was there a trinity in Judaic beliefs
It was a sect that arose well after Jesus and his followers...which won over the battle of the "Nature of God" with violence some 2-3 hundred years later.
Ain't No trinity in the bible... not even the word exists in the book
in fact even the "trinitarian formula" is all but absent...
No need brother i know all the Trinitarian "proof texts" that are in the bible...
Fact remains Jesus didn't teach a trinity, nor was there a trinity in Judaic beliefs
It was a sect that arose well after Jesus and his followers...which won over the battle of the "Nature of God" with violence some 2-3 hundred years later.
Ain't No trinity in the bible... not even the word exists in the book
in fact even the "trinitarian formula" is all but absent...
edit on 4-7-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
a reply to: whereislogic
So you’re not a “Jehovah's Witness” but you’ve just posted over 10 videos which all contain Jehovah witness theology in them…hmmmm?
Similarly to what I outlined in my last reply to you…you are now in the category of someone who doesn’t belong to any known denomination of Christianity, other than your own unique brand.
Which means not only are you one of a kind, you also believe that only your Christian belief is the true one, and that ALL other Christians are deceived by the false versions of Christianity.
This is even worse than what I pointed out to you in my previous reply…
If the end times happens anytime soon, it’s going to be a lonely place in Heaven for just one guy!!!
- JC
Originally posted by whereislogic
I am not a member of any organized religion, but this isn't about me anyway. If those videos are not helpful enough for you, the channel those videos came from has more videos on the same subject.
So you’re not a “Jehovah's Witness” but you’ve just posted over 10 videos which all contain Jehovah witness theology in them…hmmmm?
Similarly to what I outlined in my last reply to you…you are now in the category of someone who doesn’t belong to any known denomination of Christianity, other than your own unique brand.
Which means not only are you one of a kind, you also believe that only your Christian belief is the true one, and that ALL other Christians are deceived by the false versions of Christianity.
This is even worse than what I pointed out to you in my previous reply…
If the end times happens anytime soon, it’s going to be a lonely place in Heaven for just one guy!!!
- JC
edit on 4-7-2016 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Akragon
Not exactly true, before Jesus the Jewish commentaries said the coming Messiah would have divine attributes. The commentaries after Jesus denied that. You should look at what happened to Judaism and their hatred for the Septuagint OT at the Council of Jamnia in 90 AD. Judaism radically changed there, and they adopted a new Tenakh.
Not exactly true, before Jesus the Jewish commentaries said the coming Messiah would have divine attributes. The commentaries after Jesus denied that. You should look at what happened to Judaism and their hatred for the Septuagint OT at the Council of Jamnia in 90 AD. Judaism radically changed there, and they adopted a new Tenakh.
a reply to: NOTurTypical
Divine attributes does not make him God my friend...
There were many people that could do the same things He did in the book
that is one "council" i haven't looked into much... Mainly because most don't believe it actually ever happened
Not exactly true, before Jesus the Jewish commentaries said the coming Messiah would have divine attributes.
Divine attributes does not make him God my friend...
There were many people that could do the same things He did in the book
that is one "council" i haven't looked into much... Mainly because most don't believe it actually ever happened
edit on 4-7-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Akragon
I disagree, Isaiah 9:6 is pretty explicit. Mighty God, Everlasting Father. If you don't want to believe the Trinity, I think you can still be justified if you believe that Jesus is the eternalGod who incarnated in the flesh, that He is the Messiah. It's paramount you get the Christology correct, because both you and I know what John said was the spirit of antichrist.
Why would you not believe he Council of Jamnia happened? It did, in 90 AD. Judaism isn't Mosaic anymore, it's Talmudic. And they codified their Tenakh to "de-Jesus" it, they started to have contempt for the Septuagint OT the Christians were using to teach and preach Jesus is the Msssiah and the Lord.
I disagree, Isaiah 9:6 is pretty explicit. Mighty God, Everlasting Father. If you don't want to believe the Trinity, I think you can still be justified if you believe that Jesus is the eternalGod who incarnated in the flesh, that He is the Messiah. It's paramount you get the Christology correct, because both you and I know what John said was the spirit of antichrist.
Why would you not believe he Council of Jamnia happened? It did, in 90 AD. Judaism isn't Mosaic anymore, it's Talmudic. And they codified their Tenakh to "de-Jesus" it, they started to have contempt for the Septuagint OT the Christians were using to teach and preach Jesus is the Msssiah and the Lord.
edit on 4-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
a reply to: NOTurTypical
Sure thats correct.... problem is, every single "name" that is given in said chapter is never given to Jesus...
he wasn't called "ever lasting Father"... In fact he spoke out against calling anyone such a thing, especially himself
he certainly wasn't called Mighty God... thats just silly
Or Emanuel (God with us)
Not a single name was ever attributed to him in that chapter... so that point is Moot
See, i do believe he was "messiah"... just not God
I don't believe God has a God.... And Jesus had his own God whom he called Father, and attributed everything to HIM... not himself.
Sure... Jesus most definately was a real person, not just a spirit as Valentinus argued...
Still wasn't God though...
Like i said, God doesn't have a God.
Similar to the OT entity... Jealous of who?
Said being knew there were others... but put himself on a pedestal believing he was the "most high"
Well thats a good start... why would they de-Jesus it when they denied him in the first place...
Makes no sense... its likely Jesus wasn't in said books at all
I disagree, Isaiah 9:6 is pretty explicit. Mighty God, Everlasting Father.
Sure thats correct.... problem is, every single "name" that is given in said chapter is never given to Jesus...
he wasn't called "ever lasting Father"... In fact he spoke out against calling anyone such a thing, especially himself
he certainly wasn't called Mighty God... thats just silly
Or Emanuel (God with us)
Not a single name was ever attributed to him in that chapter... so that point is Moot
If you don't want to believe the Trinity, I think you can still be justified if you believe that Jesus is the eternal God who incarnated in the flesh, that He is the Messiah.
See, i do believe he was "messiah"... just not God
I don't believe God has a God.... And Jesus had his own God whom he called Father, and attributed everything to HIM... not himself.
It's paramount you get the Christology correct, because both you and I know what John said was the spirit of antichrist.
Sure... Jesus most definately was a real person, not just a spirit as Valentinus argued...
Still wasn't God though...
Like i said, God doesn't have a God.
Similar to the OT entity... Jealous of who?
Said being knew there were others... but put himself on a pedestal believing he was the "most high"
Why would you not believe he Council of Jamnia happened? It did, in 90 AD. Judaism isn't Mosaic anymore, it's Talmudic. And they codified their Tenakh to "de-Jesus" it, they started to have contempt for the Septuagint OT the Christians were using to teach and preach Jesus is the Msssiah and the Lord.
Well thats a good start... why would they de-Jesus it when they denied him in the first place...
Makes no sense... its likely Jesus wasn't in said books at all
edit on 4-7-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Akragon
Hey Akragon wadaya make of this one…
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 44:6
Thought’s, feelings, general vibes…???
- JC
Hey Akragon wadaya make of this one…
Isaiah 44:6
Isaiah 44:6
Thought’s, feelings, general vibes…???
- JC
a reply to: Akragon
Hey just to bring this slightly back on topic, what were your thoughts regarding my question in this post…?
I know you have a busy schedule, and you’re not exactly a Revelations guy lol but seeing as you’re here an all…
- JC
Hey just to bring this slightly back on topic, what were your thoughts regarding my question in this post…?
I know you have a busy schedule, and you’re not exactly a Revelations guy lol but seeing as you’re here an all…
- JC
a reply to: Joecroft
Nifty little word play... this is one of those trinitarian "proof texts" i was talking about previously
Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts
the speaker/writer is actually refering to Israel... not the "lord" in this passage
Sorry man like i said i really can't weigh in on this discussion... Revelation is a write off to me
Nifty little word play... this is one of those trinitarian "proof texts" i was talking about previously
Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts
the speaker/writer is actually refering to Israel... not the "lord" in this passage
Hey just to bring this slightly back on topic, what were your thoughts regarding my question in this post…?
Sorry man like i said i really can't weigh in on this discussion... Revelation is a write off to me
edit on 4-7-2016 by Akragon because: (no reason given)
a reply to: Akragon
Man…how do you end up in these threads lol
Hey whatever you decide the Empire won't bite back lol
Huh…
How have you managed to come to that conclusion…?
The text is using the name Jehovah, the tetragrammaton…and that phrase “I am the first and the last” is commonly used to denote God…
Btw – I’m not a Trinitarian, I’m just playing devils advocate here…
- JC
Originally posted by Akragon
Sorry man like i said i really can't weigh in on this discussion... Revelation is a write off to me
Man…how do you end up in these threads lol
Hey whatever you decide the Empire won't bite back lol
Originally posted by Akragon
Nifty little word play... this is one of those trinitarian "proof texts" i was talking about previously
Thus says the LORD, Israel's King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts
the speaker/writer is actually refering to Israel... not the "lord" in this passage
Huh…
How have you managed to come to that conclusion…?
The text is using the name Jehovah, the tetragrammaton…and that phrase “I am the first and the last” is commonly used to denote God…
Btw – I’m not a Trinitarian, I’m just playing devils advocate here…
- JC
a reply to: Joecroft
They slip off the topic and i slide in...
Bad habbit
Right... said god is saying to Israel, He is the first and the last etc etc...
Man…how do you end up in these threads lol
They slip off the topic and i slide in...
Bad habbit
How have you managed to come to that conclusion…?
The text is using the name Jehovah, the tetragrammaton…and that phrase “I am the first and the last” is commonly used to denote God…
Right... said god is saying to Israel, He is the first and the last etc etc...
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