Why We Should Not Be Transitioning Children.....

originally posted by: jasminnne
"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) categorizes specific dysphoria in the obsessive–compulsive spectrum."

Citation needed.

I thought of a reason, and it might not be able to be backed up by any science, but to me this is an important reason. My fingernails are solid as fk and my cis-female friends hate that I can grow them so long and not break. I dont think this would be the case if I didnt go thru adolescent & adult testosterone poisoning.

Oh, was I expected to take this topic seriously?. My bad.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Freija
So who are you? I sure can't say what "woman" is because from what I've experienced in life, I am not what most people typically think of as one, but at the same time, I sure haven't conned myself into thinking that makes me a man, either.

I am who I am and am perfectly comfortable and confident and satisfied with who I am as a person, what I look like, how I am perceived by others and with my body. I am also an individual just like you although my "experience in life" sounds to be more typically less butch than yours although I did meet my husband through our common hobby of riding motorcycles so I'm not your typical one-dimensional Barbie doll clone either? I posted my current pic here. Let's see yours so I can decide for you if you are a woman. Some people (ahem) seem to think it's their place to define who I am so turnabout is only fair play, right?

Here's another one of me taken about 32 years ago. I was a member of an all girls riding club at the time.


I haven't "conned" myself into anything. That's bullsh!t language only meant to be antagonistic and dismissive. I have no delusions or imaginary reality about who I am but I can tell you I am a very real, very genuine and a very down to earth person free of psychological or social problems other than getting cranky about threads like this on the Internet. With what I've read here and in other threads about your history, I'm surprised you've "conned" yourself into thinking you're a woman. You know, I don't mean to say things like this, I'm really nice and easy-going and usually avoid people I don't like but when your tone is insulting or making insinuations, you're going to get the same thing back in kind. If we didn't discuss politics, religion or social issues, we'd probably get along in the real world? Naw, probably not.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Actually, that is where you are wrong. I am very interested on your perspective and especially in how you are so certain you know how a woman should think/feel/behave.

Aw come on! Of course I learned everything I think I know about how to think/feel/behave like a woman from books, TV and other media (sarcasm) and of course, I can also say how other women should think/feel/behave because we're all exactly alike and think/feel/behave the same way. Your own wife can't even answer this question. I doubt any woman could or would other than "I have a vagina so I think/feel/behave exactly like every other woman on the planet" which is a ridiculous notion as is your question.

Even if I did say something, you'd just think you were clever and twist it around. My behavior and personality are innate and in-born and has never changed or been any different. Ask your "not a typical woman" wife what it is that makes her not a man.

So I've lost count... I think this is at least my third try to get you to describe how you know. And I come back with the assumption that you cannot describe how a woman thinks/feels/behaves. As you say, you have been believing it for 61 years so I figure you should be able to share your knowledge.

Guess you're just going to have keep wondering about this absurd question. If you met me or knew me, you wouldn't ask such stupid shiz. Who I am innately is obvious and my medical history is not.

I have no memories whatsoever of ever thinking of myself as a boy

Oddly, neither do I.

What were you? Lemme guess, a tiger or a horse? Also, congratulations! You didn't have gender dysphoria. You didn't have to think about it.

At 16 and 17, most people outside of the school environment, like at shops and cafes thought I was a girl and not from what I was wearing or how I looked but because of my personality and who I am.

Did they tell you that?

When someone calls you Miss or Ma'am or refers to you as a girl or someone compliments your mother that her daughter looks just like her, I'm gonna say yeah, I had a lot of affirmation of my gender even as a small child that was supposedly a boy. My folks eventually stopped trying to correct people but it was still very embarrassing for them. After I changed my name, my mom was more than proud to introduce me as her daughter. You just don't get it. I was never a boy and have certainly never been a man. That happens, you know? I might not have believed it myself had it not happened to me. I understand it is a hard concept to grasp, especially when you don't want to or refuse.

Were those assholes at least expelled and/or sent to juvie?

I know for sure at least one of them was arrested and spent a year in juvie. Don't know about the others. I'm sure they all got in some kind of trouble. I was out of school for 3 1/2 weeks with broken ribs from being kicked on the ground and still have one wonky eyebrow that had stitches in it and a 3" scar on my left shoulder. I was also assaulted by another group of boys in the 4th grade wanting to find out if I was a boy or a girl. I don't like to think about that one. There were other fun times too, far too numerous to mention but that all was a very long time ago and other than just being part of my experience, these things have little to do with who I am. I will say it toughened me up some, made my skin a little bit thicker and made me not too trusting and somewhat afraid of men until I was in my 20's though.

I've shared these stories not to garner sympathy but rather to illustrate that when I was young, I was not perceived to be like or behave like a boy. My early childhood friends and the one friend I did have in high school were all girls. I played with girls toys, had typically girl interests and did typically girl things. I did not fit in with boys because I was not one. With the exception of my former husband, that will remain a dear friend for life, all my friends now are women. I recently quit another hobby that was mostly guys. When gathered together, who did I hang out with and relate to? The wives and girlfriends.

-- My last year of high school, with long blond hair almost to my waist that had been growing since the 3rd grade

Kids naturally pick on the outsider based on visual cues. Something like a guy with long hair is going to be noticed, especially in the 60's. Not even most women grow their hair that long. It doesn't excuse violence, of course.

Yeah, I really looked like "guy" with long hair. (Pic from 6 months ago after cutting several inches off which has grown back and is longer now) I was a "boy" in name only and my hair is shorter now than it was in high school but it is the same hair.

Still not seeing anything that says you knew you were a woman

It's the same thing that tells you that you are a man. Quit being obtuse and stupid. I know exactly what I am. Do you?



The things I've posted here about my own life are to give folks a better glimpse into who I am to draw their own conclusions. Rather than answer ridiculous baited questions about how I know I "think/feel/behave" like a woman, I think it is simpler to just share things from life, my attitudes and my perspectives. You'll figure it out. Or not.

a reply to: Freija

How did you know that you were born the wrong sex? What did it feel like?

a reply to: jasminnne

Inappropriate. A mistake of nature. Hell, I don't know what it "felt" like. It just wasn't right.

It's pretty obvious where you're going with this so don't bother.

a reply to: Freija

What do you mean don't bother? Why are you all so defensive about this? I asked a perfectly reasonable question. When do kids suddenly know they are the wrong sex?

a reply to: jasminnne

Defensive? Well maybe because of your previous posts in this thread for one thing. You've unflinchingly stuck to the disorder model. Conflated gender dysphoria with BIID and BDD and made up information about what is in the DSM-V and said people like me were offensive and called sex reassignment surgery mutilation. I said I was done talking to you anyway. I have posted plenty of links for you to look up things on your own and informative videos as well. Had you looked at them at all, you wouldn't be asking this question.

a reply to: Freija

I didn't make that up but I see it has been changed to keep from hurting peoples feelings. I don't know why people are so afraid to call it a disorder. There's nothing wrong with having a disorder. Or birth defect. If it's not a disorder or illness like you say therapy, hormones, and mutilating of the genitals should not be covered and should be payed for fully by the people who feel they were born the wrong sex.

originally posted by: jasminnne
I don't know why people are so afraid to call it a disorder.

What disorder do you have?

It was changed because science/medical evolved to understand it is a natural occurrence in a percentage of people.

Not because of hurt feelings.

You are really determined to make this wrong.

It's not. It's normal to those born Gender Dysphoric.

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
Actually, that is where you are wrong. I am very interested on your perspective and especially in how you are so certain you know how a woman should think/feel/behave.

Aw come on! Of course I learned everything I think I know about how to think/feel/behave like a woman from books, TV and other media (sarcasm) and of course, I can also say how other women should think/feel/behave because we're all exactly alike and think/feel/behave the same way.

Considering all the glamor shots and photoshops you like to share, yeah it kinda looks like you get all your cues from mass media. I don't know too many girls or women who look like that in real life.

Your own wife can't even answer this question. I doubt any woman could or would other than "I have a vagina so I think/feel/behave exactly like every other woman on the planet" which is a ridiculous notion as is your question.

Even if I did say something, you'd just think you were clever and twist it around. My behavior and personality are innate and in-born and has never changed or been any different. Ask your "not a typical woman" wife what it is that makes her not a man.

She didn't answer it because you didn't ask her.

As for you...

Guess you're just going to have keep wondering about this absurd question. If you met me or knew me, you wouldn't ask such stupid shiz. Who I am innately is obvious and my medical history is not.

You can't answer it either. But you sure can deflect!

What were you? Lemme guess, a tiger or a horse?

No... that's a pretty silly question.

Also, congratulations! You didn't have gender dysphoria. You didn't have to think about it.

I didn't have GID because I am normal. GID is the exception, not the rule. It's an outlier/deviation. Less that 1% of the population deals with it. It's barely a statistic. It's a rounding error.

It's the same thing that tells you that you are a man. Quit being obtuse and stupid. I know exactly what I am. Do you?

As I said before I know I'm a man because of man because of my anatomy and hormonal responses.

Quit deflecting with ad hominem.

The things I've posted here about my own life are to give folks a better glimpse into who I am to draw their own conclusions. Rather than answer ridiculous baited questions about how I know I "think/feel/behave" like a woman, I think it is simpler to just share things from life, my attitudes and my perspectives. You'll figure it out. Or not.

Still sounds like you have body issues. I'm not trying to bait you, just trying to understand how you are so certain. Because I think if you tried to describe how you know you are a woman, then the true women could say "No, we really don't think/feel/behave that way." So you avoid the answer out of concern that you are wrong.

originally posted by: Annee

It's not. It's normal to those born Gender Dysphoric.

Which by default is an abnormality...

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Annee

It's not. It's normal to those born Gender Dysphoric.

Which by default is an abnormality...

We are all mutations from the first human, including you.

10% red headed.

10% left handed.

I have green eyes, 2%

I have AB blood, 4%

Normal functioning brain. Work, school, full functioning life.

Abnormal? By man made society acceptance?

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

Considering all the glamor shots and photoshops you like to share, yeah it kinda looks like you get all your cues from mass media.

Oh, that's rich! Jeans and t-shirts are mad fashion, right? There are 3 pictures of me on this website. This is the only place on the entire web I've ever posted photographs of myself so how about some more? That's a whopping 6 pictures of me available online anywhere now.

Here's me painting a VW


Here's me riding dirt bikes in the desert with my husband (I was married for 12 years, divorced for 20)


Here's me pushing my motorcycle up the driveway:


Boy howdy! America's next top supermodel material for sure! But hey, thanks for the compliment!

I don't know too many girls or women who look like that in real life.

Look like what exactly? I'm pretty damn average and I can't help it if your wife is butch or you don't get out much.

--Guess you're just going to have keep wondering about this absurd question. If you met me or knew me, you wouldn't ask such stupid shiz. Who I am innately is obvious and my medical history is not.

You can't answer it either.

It's not a matter of can't, it is one of won't mostly because I know it aggravates you!

I didn't have GID because I am normal. GID is the exception, not the rule. It's an outlier/deviation. Less that 1% of the population deals with it. It's barely a statistic. It's a rounding error.

And your point is other than using GID when you know that's a deprecated term? I was diagnosed with "primary transsexualism" anyway but it really doesn't matter what it is called, now does it? Thanks for acknowledging my uniqueness though, would you like an autograph?

As I said before I know I'm a man because of man because of my anatomy and hormonal responses.

Oh! If it's that easy then, I know I'm a woman because I have a vagina, breasts I grew my very own self and because of my hormonal (and sexual) responses not to mention a lifetime of socialization and history of being a woman. There, we're done with your foolishness! Case closed. Game over.

Quit deflecting with ad hominem.

Please don't mistake my intentionally ignoring your idiocy for deflecting.

I'm not trying to bait you, just trying to understand how you are so certain. Because I think if you tried to describe how you know you are a woman, then the true women could say "No, we really don't think/feel/behave that way." So you avoid the answer out of concern that you are wrong.

No, it's because you are baiting 100% and I've said before, I do not feel compelled to play into your little ploy. I'm also sure other women don't much give a sh!t when a man tries to tell them what a "true women" might say. Quit being a jackass. I know what I am - full stop. I don't need you or anyone else to define that for me, thankyouverymuch.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu
I'm not trying to bait you, just trying to understand how you are so certain.

What?

Where in any of your posts do you show you are trying to "seriously" understand?

a reply to: Annee

I do not have any disorders. I don't understand why you would say that I don't know if you think it is an insult or what but if you mean it as one that just just shows what kind of person you are.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

I do not have any disorders. I don't understand why you would say that I don't know if you think it is an insult or what but if you mean it as one that just just shows what kind of person you are.

Uh huh. Interesting reaction.

Why so defensive?

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't know why they keep posting pictures of themselves It just shows they are insecure. I guess long hair = being a woman.

a reply to: Annee

What do you mean why so defensive? You asked me randomly "what disorder I had" and I answered you. I'm saying if you think having a disorder is an insult that says something about you and how you view people with disorders not me.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Teikiatsu

I don't know why they keep posting pictures of themselves It just shows they are insecure. I guess long hair = being a woman.

Your "dumb act" is boring and getting old. Meant to be antagonistic, I'm sure - - but, only reflects back on you.

Maybe the following will be too much for you to understand, so you will then try to twist it to fit your brain concept.

However, that doesn't really fool anyone - - - as facts speak for themselves.

Need for Change

Persons experiencing gender dysphoria need a diagnostic term that protects their access to care and
won’t be used against them in social, occupational, or legal areas.

When it comes to access to care, many of the treatment options for this condition include counseling,cross-sex hormones, gender reassignment surgery, and social and legal transition to the desired gender. To get insurance coverage for the medical treatments, individuals need a diagnosis. The Sexual and Gender Identity Disorders Work Group was concerned that removing the condition as a psychiatric diagnosis—as some had suggested—would jeopardize access to care.

Part of removing stigma is about choosing the right words. Replacing “disorder” with “dysphoria” in the diagnostic label is not only more appropriate and consistent with familiar clinical sexology terminology, it also removes the connotation that the patient is “disordered.”

Ultimately, the changes regarding gender dysphoria in DSM-5 respect the individuals identified by offering a diagnostic name that is more appropriate to the symptoms and behaviors they experience without jeopardizing their access to effective treatment options.

www.dsm5.org...

a reply to: Annee

Listen lady chill out ok. I'm not the one trying to use having a disorder as an insult. You are personally attacking me because I disagree with you.

All that says to me is they don't want it to be called a disorder but they still want their hormones, therapy, and surgery covered. IF IT IS NOT A DISORDER OR ILLNESS IT SHOULDN'T BE COVERED.