Why We Should Not Be Transitioning Children.....

a reply to: Annee

But there must be something wrong if they want to mutilate their bodies in that way to horribly imitate the body of the other sex because their brain is telling them they need to do this.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yes, It also seems like a disorder to me I don't know why they don't want to call it that. It is ok to have a disorder and no one should treat them wrongly just like anyone else with one.

Because the medical/science board changed it. It is no longer considered a disorder by the people that matter.

If you're gonna side with Teikiatsu, there's no point in continuing.

a reply to: jasminnne
I'm not certain it qualifies as mutilation.

How do you feel about breast augmentation? Does it indicate a disorder? Seems a lot of women are subject to it. Seems they think they have the wrong body.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Yes, It also seems like a disorder to me I don't know why they don't want to call it that. It is ok to have a disorder and no one should treat them wrongly just like anyone else with one.

Because they have found enough psychologists who say the things they want to hear, and attack the statements made by other psychologists and medical professionals that flies in the face of what they believe. They are fully invested in what they say.

I would still like for any person who claims to be transgender to tell me now they know what the gender they claim to be feels/thinks/behaves/acts like. I think it would be very interesting to hear a biological/genetic female tell me how I as a man am supposed to think/feel/etc.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

I would still like for any person who claims to be transgender to tell me now they know what the gender they claim to be feels/thinks/behaves/acts like.

You haven't been paying much attention. Confirmation bias is funny that way.

a reply to: Annee

Oh yeah, and they proclaim they will refuse to talk with you. And they hide behind partisan/activist 'experts' but then don't actually provide valid research that uses real controls. It's all about the 'feels.'

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Teikiatsu

I would still like for any person who claims to be transgender to tell me now they know what the gender they claim to be feels/thinks/behaves/acts like.

You haven't been paying much attention. Confirmation bias is funny that way.

Really, when did anyone describe it? I missed it. Please provide a link.

a reply to: Annee

Why did they have it changed if you don't mind telling me?

I wasn't aware that it was wrong to agree with a certain person here on something.......It is not like we are sitting in a room together conspiring against you

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

So they have a disorder where the brain is not correctly telling them what gender they are and not matching with the sex causing them to feel they are born with the wrong one.

I think the gender thing should be taken out of the equation for a second. Let's see if I can try to explain it in another way that might make better sense. How do you know you are human and not a cat? Besides how you look physically, how do you know? If you were born blind, how would you know you were human? You just KNOW, correct?

If you never got to see or feel your genetalia, and if no one else knew your sex, how would you know if you were male or female? You would just know, just feel it from inside. Same thing in the case of transgender people. They know, usually from a very young age, what gender they are because of what they know on the inside. It has absolutely nothing to do with their sex. It is not a mental illness, even though it is sometimes labeled as a disorder. If I remember correctly, there are even aspects of initial development that correlate with what gender they feel like they are after birth, such as the amount of testosterone the fetus is exposed to in utero as that helps determine if the fetus will be male or female.

Does that make sense?

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

So they have a disorder where the brain is not correctly telling them what gender they are and not matching with the sex causing them to feel they are born with the wrong one.

I think the gender thing should be taken out of the equation for a second.

Let's not. What discussion do you think you're having?

How do you know you are human and not a cat?

There is ZERO reason to bring animals into this discussion.

a reply to: jasminnne

Why did they have it changed if you don't mind telling me?

Because more was learned about it.

Sort of like how we don't burn witches anymore.

a reply to: Phage

Women who have their breasts changed do not feel they are the wrong sex. It is cosmetic, like lip injections and nose jobs. Some people do have bdd and get surgeries because of that. Changing sex isn't even possible only very bad imitation. I have seen it and it is disturbing.....

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

So they have a disorder where the brain is not correctly telling them what gender they are and not matching with the sex causing them to feel they are born with the wrong one.

I think the gender thing should be taken out of the equation for a second.

Let's not. What discussion do you think you're having?

How do you know you are human and not a cat?

There is ZERO reason to bring animals into this discussion.

Wow, chill out. I was trying to explain it in a way that might be better understood by someone who knows nothing about the subject. Geez, I'll just leave the thread to the continuous arguing back and forth without trying to educate anyone who is unfamiliar with the subject.

a reply to: Phage

So it had nothing to do with transgender people being offended by it?

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

So they have a disorder where the brain is not correctly telling them what gender they are and not matching with the sex causing them to feel they are born with the wrong one.

I think the gender thing should be taken out of the equation for a second. Let's see if I can try to explain it in another way that might make better sense. How do you know you are human and not a cat? Besides how you look physically, how do you know? If you were born blind, how would you know you were human? You just KNOW, correct?

If you were a cat, you wouldn't be thinking about it in the first place.

If you never got to see or feel your genetalia, and if no one else knew your sex, how would you know if you were male or female? You would just know, just feel it from inside.

How do you know if that hypothetical person would or would not think about it in the first place?

For that matter, how do you know what sex you are? Do you think the way you know what gender you are is the same way every other individual of the same gender knows they are what they think they are? Or are we all androgynous consciousnesses wrapped in meat shells that have higher level brain functions that allow us to ponder our existence, and try to make sense of the reality were are born into by our own means.

a reply to: jasminnne

Women who have their breasts changed do not feel they are the wrong sex. It is cosmetic, like lip injections and nose jobs.

I know, they think they have the wrong body. So, it's just a matter of degree as far as you're concerned?

Changing sex isn't even possible only very bad imitation. I have seen it and it is disturbing.....

I've seen some pretty disturbing "cosmetic surgery" but why on Earth would you be looking for such? What makes you think you saw what is typical?

originally posted by: jasminnne
My body is female and I realize and accept that I am female. If I didn't think that way then i'd say I had a disorder of some sort.

I see you appear to be a new member of this community? The motto here is "deny ignorance which is hard to do if you don't open your mind and be willing to examine your own perspectives. There's a lot of chaff here but there is also a lot of really good things to learn about and people willing to share their knowledge and experience on many different topics. On this particular one, most here seem to think I am somewhat of a quasi-expert so I ask you to try and put aside your own preconceptions and lack of genuine knowledge about this subject and take a few minutes of your time to consider and think about some of the points being made.

To be perfectly upfront, I consider myself an advocate for and ally to transgender youth and their parents. This is a subject I have been studying and learning about for over 50 years and I've watched as the science and medicine as well as the social understanding and awareness of all this has progressed over time. When it comes to children in pain suffering from or working their way through resolving gender dysphoria, I consider all of them "my" kids and want to do whatever I can to help other people learn about them. I should say learn about US because this is something I grew up with. If you are interested examining some of your initial reactionary attitudes about this subject and be willing to consider you really don't know too much about it and would like to, I can help you deny that ignorance.

These concepts are obviously new to you and may not seem quite right until you think about them some. Fundamentally, the words sex and gender do not mean the same thing. A person's sense of their own gender is at the basic core of their personality and who they are and how they act and present themselves and what gender others perceive them to be comes from the heart and soul. Everyone has their own internalized sense of what gender they are but with that being congruent with their anatomy, most people don't even realize their sense of gender and who they are as people doesn't emanate from the crotch. That's why I often use the analogy of someone switching genitals with the opposite sex. If you woke up that day and this had happened, wouldn't you still have the sense of being the man or woman that you were? A person's sense of gender and which one they are comes from above the shoulders, not below.

Parroting your words somewhat, as a woman, I find it "offensive" that you reduce being a woman to just having a vagina. I know I'm a helluva lot more than mine and think who I am as a person to be a little more complex and multi-dimensional than that.

Gender Identity Development in Children

Around two-years-old, children become conscious of the physical differences between boys and girls. Before their third birthday, most children are easily able to label themselves as either a boy or a girl. By age four, most children have a stable sense of their gender identity. During this same time of life, children learn gender role behavior—that is, do­ing "things that boys do" or "things that girls do." Before the age of three, children can differentiate toys typically used by boys or girls and begin to play with children of their own gender in activities identified with that gender

As I said, gender is at the core of and fundamental to personality. Much beyond 5 years old, gender is very difficult if not impossible to change. Typically, we think of gender as a binary, either masculine or feminine but it is indeed a spectrum. There are children that are gender atypical, gender non-conforming/expansive etc. and then there are genuinely transgender children that are not in the middle but switch one end of the binary to the other.

When one experiences their own gender, their sense of which one they are, and it doesn't jive with what the doctor or midwife that birthed you told your parents you were, it can create a great deal of painfully crushing distress and discomfort. This incongruence and distress leads to depression, anxiety and suicide ideation and attempts. The level of despair, discomfort and impairment in life and functioning, the side effects of gender dysphoria, are the measures of it.

No successful therapy, treatment or drug has ever been able to "cure" gender dysphoria and all them have been tried going back many decades in the past. What has worked and worked for hundreds of thousands of people is gender transition. People that get to this point don't do it overnight. It can be a lifelong struggle for some or a lifelong struggle to resist for others. For some, making a social transition to live as a different gender all the time brings enough relief but for most, having a more feminine (or masculine) body means more or as much as making social (name, pronouns, etc.) transition. Cross-sex hormones and often cosmetic surgery are also an additional layer of relief for some. Somewhere a little less than a third of these people will also have sex reassignment (change) surgery. Look at the video of the second girl talking about her medical experience. She can't wait to have her birth defect corrected and incidentally, SRS is not mutilation. It is taking unwanted and non-functional parts and reconfiguring them into something useful. Appearance wise, a neovagina is externally indistinguishable from a natal female and is fully sexually functional and orgasmic. Maybe you didn't know that before?

For properly screened and evaluated very young children (3-6) that do socially transition, very few grow out of it and those that do typically do so just before puberty. Many psychologists that specialize in this field feel it is far more important for a child to express their cross gender identities rather than repress them and that not doing so is more damaging than if they had tried a social transition then desisted or gone back to their natal gender expression. These kids are less harmed by trying it and then "going back" than they are by not trying.

For some kids, there is simply no alternative and these are the ones I know most about because I can relate. They don't desist, there's nothing to "go back" to and their sense of what they are will never change their whole entire life. For them, having the body that goes with who they are as people is the most important thing that can be done to make sure they live out their lives as happy, healthy, productive adults.

When you think of transgender kids, don't think of Caitlyn Jenner. That's a different story.

Hey, anyone catch my comment in the other (thankfully) closed thread? The "moth" has found the flame again. Surprise, surprise. I still want to know why that is? It is kind of sad.

a reply to: Phage

I was very curious to what it looked like. There's nothing wrong with that is there.



They don't think they have the wrong body they just want bigger boobies. When I've said wrong body I mean when it comes to biological sex of course. Sorry for not being clear.

a reply to: jasminnne

They don't think they have the wrong body they just want bigger boobies. When I've said wrong body I mean when it comes to biological sex of course.

A matter of degree for you, as I said. Small breasts give some women a feeling of being less feminine. In order to feel more comfortable in their bodies they opt for surgery. Transpeople who opt for surgery do not think that it makes them biologically female but it does make them feel more comfortable in their bodies.

originally posted by: Freija
I see you appear to be a new member of this community? The motto here is "deny ignorance which is hard to do if you don't open your mind and be willing to examine your own perspectives.

Actually it's just 'Deny Ignorance.' The rest is just passive aggressiveness.

Parroting your words somewhat, as a woman, I find it "offensive" that you reduce being a woman to just having a vagina. I know I'm a helluva lot more than mine and think who I am as a person to be a little more complex and multi-dimensional than that.

Then as a person who believes they are a woman, can you describe how a woman is supposed to feel/think/behave?

Hey, anyone catch my comment in the other (thankfully) closed thread? The "moth" has found the flame again. Surprise, surprise. I still want to know why that is? It is kind of sad.

Being drawn to the same conversation topic again and again is "sad", hmm? Then you are also describing yourself, as well as the other trans* advocates that come back again and again.