Why We Should Not Be Transitioning Children.....

originally posted by: Freija

originally posted by: jasminnne
I thought that it was pretty bad and dangerous to put kids on hormone blockers. That's true isn't it? That one little boy with the show "My name is Jas" has been on them and still is. I wonder what is the long term effects.

GnRH analogues (puberty blockers) are not dangerous compared to the alternatives of doing nothing and are fully reversible if withdrawn. Should this treatment be stopped, normal natal puberty will take place. When you were a teenager, how would have you felt if your voice deepened and you grew facial hair and muscles? (assuming you are female) Puberty blockers are not given until the beginning of puberty or Tanner stage 2 and only after counseling, therapy and professional evaluation for the child and their parents and siblings. They cost around $20,000 per year and in most cases, are not covered under insurance.

Alternatives to the implant, hormone blockers can be taken orally or by injection but still cost $12K to $15K per year. Adults undergoing HRT therapy also take a drug called spironolactone that blocks the production of testosterone or they can opt to have a bilateral orchiectomy (removal of the testicles)

Jazz Jennings is not a boy.

Neither is Corey Maison

Neither are thousands of transgender girls like her.

Typically, hormone blockers are only given for a couple of years at the beginning of puberty to prevent it before switching to HRT (estrogen for transgender girls and testosterone for transgender boys) so that kids can develop the secondary sexual characteristics of their peers. How would you like to have been a pre-pubertal 17 year old? Not too happy, I would imagine.

Our OP here, while generally supportive regarding trans issues, has strong opinions about blocking puberty and allowing children to socially transition but has no actual experience with trans youth, their needs or what they go through. I do and work with organizations like Gender Spectrum that has a lot of informative info on their resources page. This is not his first post on this very same subject. Please see information and my replies to that post to learn more.

Transgendered children: should a parent be able to chemically alter a child's sex?

If you have the time, watch the video above from an endocrinologist. It explains a lot and why helping these kids in the best way possible is so important to them and gives them the best possible chance to grow up and be healthy, happy and productive adults. Is this therapy appropriate for all children? No, but is imperative for those when it is BUT, it is up to the kids, their parents and their doctors to make that decision, not someone on an internet forum with no or very poor understanding of the issues involved. I guarantee if his daughter was trans, he would feel differently.

Here's a 15-year-old transgender girl. Not a boy by any stretch.

ETA: When young children prior to puberty transition, no medical treatments are involved other than counseling and therapy. A change of clothing, hair style, name and pronouns are all that a social transition involves. At puberty, blockers can be used allowing a few years for a child additional time to mature emotionally. Undergoing the effects natal puberty can be extremely psychologically damaging, be very costly to correct and condemn a person to residual physical issues that can be very distressing. Hormone therapy can begin at 14 to 16, depending on the situation and the person and although less reversible, it can still be done. Sex reassignment surgery is very rarely ever performed before a person is 18.

You could always hear it from one of the kids directly:

What?!? Taking prescription drugs for an issue with no physical effects is better than the alternative of doing nothing......


Even if the Drs wrong???

What if half these kids you highlighted discover it was a phase or they are gay later??

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yes if they regret it later what do they do then? The suicide rate for Trans people after getting surgery are very high. I don't think people should be encouraging mutilating their bodies beyond repair.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Freija

Ah, I didn't know it was fully reversible. About Jazz, I thought they were born male and have a penis. That is why I called them a boy.

Well, that would be very rude and disrespectful and have nothing to do with this person's life and who they are as a person. You obviously don't understand what being trans means. Yes, Jazz and all these girls were assigned male at birth because of their obvious anatomy. However, a person's gender or their sense of their own gender for transgender people doesn't match what they are physically. That's what being transgender means. It's real. It happens. I promise! This is a recognized medical condition called gender dysphoria. It is not some mental illness or perversion, just the way some people are born and although there are no definitive answers, the body of scientific evidence points to this condition as being biological in nature.

Emotionally, psychologically and spiritually, transgender girls are girls and transgender boys are boys. Do either of the kids in the two videos above strike you as boys? Would you really call them he? Don't you think they are going to grow up and be women? They sure as hell aren't going to be men and as soon as these girls are old enough, they will have sex reassignment surgery and have a vagina that looks like yours and works like yours between the sheets.

Does all it take to be a woman is long hair and dresses and liking pink? That's not what being female is and any man can wear a dress and get fake breasts, that does not make them female.

What makes you a woman? If you woke up tomorrow with male genitalia would you still feel like and think of yourself as a woman? Everyone has their own internal sense of what they are. Don't make the mistake of reducing who someone is as a person to what is between their legs, which really isn't your business unless you plan on sleeping with them. Sex is being male or female (or intersex). Gender is being a boy/man, girl/woman. Some people have a gender that is in the middle and if you think menstruating and gestating is all that makes you a woman, you're selling yourself and other women short.

I think that's kind of insulting to actual biological women. I am trying to understand this way of thinking....

Insulting why? Transgender people face many difficult challenges socially and physically and go to great lengths at great costs to become women or men physically to match who they are mentally. Transgender kids are going to grow up and be the people they are, just like you.

If I cut my hair short and wear a suit am I male?

What do you think? I think that would make you a cross-dresser or maybe just butch. If you live everyday of your life like this and feel that you ARE a man. If you undergo medical procedures to remove your breasts, take testosterone to build muscles, lower your voice and grow a beard, I'm sure as heck going to call you a man.

Transgender men. Born with a vagina.



I am short on time right now but am happy to help you or anyone learn more about this. Keep the dialog going and I will try to answer whatever questions you have.

I am a huge fan of Ruby Rose. I think she is amazing.

She considers herself Gender Fluid. She's not "boxed in" with any particular gender/sexual label.

Let's try this article.

Ruby Rose believes that there is a big transgender movement happening and she's proud to be alive during it.

Rose identifies as gender fluid which she explained to Elle magazine meant that she doesn't identify as any gender.

"I'm not a guy; I don't really feel like a woman, but obviously I was born one. So, I'm somewhere in the middle, which - in my perfect imagination - is like having the best of both sexes," she told the magazine.

"I have a lot of characteristics that would normally be present in a guy and then less that would be present in a woman. But then sometimes I'll put on a skirt - like today."

Rose is even about to launch a joint venture with her fiancee Phoebe Dahl which appears to be inspired by her lifestyle.

"Phoebe and I together have a clothing range called Scallywags that we're launching in about a week that's a gender fluid, gender neutral brand," she said.

As the hot new character Stella on hit Netflix show Orange Is The new Black, it seems Rose is everywhere at the moment.

She's using that exposure to explain to the world what gender fluidity is.

Rose has also joined the discourse surrounding transgender people and publicly voiced her support for Caitlyn Jenner, who recently transitioned, and for her transgender co-star Laverne Cox.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk... Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Yes if they regret it later what do they do then? The suicide rate for Trans people after getting surgery are very high. I don't think people should be encouraging mutilating their bodies beyond repair.

The suicide rates for trans people after getting surgery is actually very low. You are believing and spreading myths.

Myths About Transition Regrets

The Truth About Transgender Suicide

The End of the Desistance Myth

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
What?!? Taking prescription drugs for an issue with no physical effects is better than the alternative of doing nothing......

You simply fail to grasp or refuse to grasp the gravity of this situation. 77% of transgender children in unsupportive environments seriously consider suicide. 55% will attempt suicide before the age of 20. Children with supportive and loving parents and proper medical care and affirming environment are 13 times less likely to be suicidal or only slightly higher than non-transgender children.

Natal puberty for a transgender child does have physical effects. Extremely detrimental ones proven to be psychologically damaging so yes, if you have a transgender child and do nothing, this is child abuse or neglect, plain and simple. Any parent with a seriously suffering child will tell you this.

Even if the Drs wrong???

You, my friend, are concern trolling. Transgender children face a multi-disciplinary team of medical professionals, not just one doctor. Your lack of faith in the medical profession is your problem. Stop interfering.

What if half these kids you highlighted discover it was a phase or they are gay later??

If a transgender child is persistent, consistent and insistent over time or if a child that socially transitioned in the 2nd grade feels the same way at puberty, it is not a phase. Many gender non-conforming children do end up being gay or lesbian. Transgender children grow up to be transgender adults. Transgender adolescents grow up to be transgender adults. Watch the video with the doctor. Learn something.

Transgender teen's acceptance an act of love for family

Mental Health of Transgender Children Who Are Supported in Their Identities

Socially transitioned transgender children who are supported in their gender identity have developmentally normative levels of depression and only minimal elevations in anxiety, suggesting that psychopathology is not inevitable within this group. Especially striking is the comparison with reports of children with gender dysphoria; socially transitioned transgender children have notably lower rates of internalizing psychopathology than previously reported among children with gender dysphoria living as their natal sex.

Why Do We Delay Puberty for Trans-Identifying Kids?
Transgender teens become happy, healthy young adults

a reply to: Freija
What makes me a woman is that I was born female.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Freija
What makes me a woman is that I was born female.

Which part?

Brain or body?

a reply to: Annee

My body is female and I realize and accept that I am female. If I didn't think that way then i'd say I had a disorder of some sort.

originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

My body is female and I realize and accept that I am female. If I didn't think that way then i'd say I had a disorder of some sort.

Good for you.

Your brain matches your physical body.

Not the same with Gender Dysphoria.

The brain tells you who you are. The brain tells you what gender you are.

I have a child who in the last maybe year and a half, has suddenly decided she is really a he. While I completely understand that being transgender is a real thing, I think parents need to really take heed when this issue arises out of the blue, like it has with my child.

Now, in my particular case, my child has never, and I mean NEVER, shown any sign whatsoever of being male. She always wanted cute girly clothes, dresses, makeup, the works. So for her to suddenly decide she is trans is quite ridiculous to me. I can honestly say that she is a product of the environment of today. There is so much in the media, politics, etc which is, in a way, turning being trans, gay, whatever, into the next cool thing. Kids that are going through puberty and already confused, now have this other element thrown in the mix. She also is a student at an alternative high school, where the kids are getting even more confused because so many of them are gay one week, trans the next. They also continually change their names. I have just let it go as the phase she is currently in, as she has done other things that she now laughs and feels embarrassed about (such as her decision to have a mohawk, her anime phase, etc). She has now mentioned hormone treatment, but I flat out told her that it would be up to her to pay for it, cuz while she is a minor, I refuse to do it, because I know five years from now she would be very regretful.

In her case, I think a lot of what she does is done for attention and shock value as she tries to find her place in the world. There are other issues at work in her life, such as a father who only took her older brother many weekends and then was never around as she has gotten older. I do honestly believe in her case it is an attention thing too.

Just my $0.02.

a reply to: Menrva

I do honestly believe in her case it is an attention thing too.

Then I would recommend continually emphasizing that she is a girl, no matter what.

And if her delusions persist, corporal punishment would be in order.

Above all, make sure she understands that her self image has no importance whatsoever.


Have you thought about why she might be seeking "attention?" I do have a teenage daughter, so I do have some notions about that.

a reply to: Annee

So they have a serious disorder. The brain should match the body so I would say they have a disorder if they feel it doesn't. Even if I also had this disorder I would still be female.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Totally agree kids have no idea who or what they are at such young ages it's totally asinine.

a reply to: jasminnne
As I understand it, they are quite aware that they have a female body. Or male, as the case may be.

a reply to: Menrva

She is probably copying some other kid at school or things that she sees. Tell he she is a girl and don't entertain it. She will be confused.

a reply to: Phage
I didn't say they weren't aware of that. They are aware of it and feel that they should be the other sex. That sounds like some sort of disorder to me. I would say mental illness but i'm not sure if that is correct.

a reply to: jasminnne

I would say mental illness but i'm not sure if that is correct.

According to those who study such things, it is not.

a reply to: Phage
Then it must be some disorder of the brain if not simply an illness.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Menrva

I do honestly believe in her case it is an attention thing too.

Then I would recommend continually emphasizing that she is a girl, no matter what.

And if her delusions persist, corporal punishment would be in order.

Above all, make sure she understands that her self image has no importance whatsoever.


Have you thought about why she might be seeking "attention?" I do have a teenage daughter, so I do have some notions about that.

U
I honestly think it has to do with her idiot biological father. He has been mostly out of her life, only popping in here and there when it will benefit him. And I have always made sure to never speak bad about him to or in front of the kids. She does have a great stepfather who has been in her life since she was five, so that has helped some. There is also one other thing. Her older brother has a mental illness, as do I , and sometimes I think she feels left out in regards to that. I tell her it's not something to wish for, as it truly sucks.

Now I would really appreciate your input on this. Thanks and sorry to kinda derailing the thread a bit....

nm