After Orlando, time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom: Neil Macdonald

a reply to: markosity1973

God passes eternal destiny judgment on all of us as individuals.

And, he passes judgment on cultures, civilizations, nations in terms of what they value, what they do, what and who they worship.

Individual Christians are instructed to judge one another and others by the fruit of their choices and behaviors.

ALL THINGS ARE not EQUAL.

Not all trains end up in Rome.

Not all choices are equal.

Not all behaviors are equal.

Choices have consequences--individually AND COLLECTIVELY.

Pretending that the choices of corrupt politicians are merely 'their own thing' of no consequence to the culture and the serfs and slaves is idiocy.

Corruption, missing the mark of perfection, idolatries of the flesh or Molach or whatever insufficient god will always bring dreadful consequences to individuals and cultures--sooner or later.

It doesn't matter of 99.9999% call black white and evil good and good evil . . .

God alone decides such things.

And, HE happens to be bigger than the whole planet by an infinite amount.

And HIS WORD WILL BE

Very final.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: markosity1973

I am needing to head off to work, but I will have to look up Matthew 19.

But his teaching on marriage to the Pharisees was very clear. It had to be. It is between a man and a woman.

That is another debate for another thread, but I will say this; why do Christians get so hot under the collar about the issue when they clearly ignore the second half of the teaching?; Jesus also forbade divorce. It is also why Catholicism does not recognise divorce.

See for yourself below

So they are no longer two but one.Let no man divide what God has put together.”

Matt 19:6

Seems to me that Christians pick and choose what they want to believe from the bible anyway.......

a reply to: ketsuko

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Well said.

But I think it's time for my 2nd sleep jump.

Keep on keeping on!

Be not weary in well doing. Sigh.

Blessings,

How many Christians have gone out and acted on it by murdering people?

you should actually look into that

What I really hate is other people telling me who and what I hate.

a reply to: markosity1973

Sorry, car issue has delayed me some, I don't ignore divorce. If you look at my post history I address it. You shouldn't divorce, and I never have.

There is a very clear teaching in the same Bible we all are talking about that people will not endure sound doctrine to the point where even the churches will not be teaching it by the time the end comes around. You yourself just found a good example of it. Outside of certain narrow circumstances, divorce should not be allowed. Jesus did teach that there were one or two reasons for it to happen.

So while you are correct that people are not exactly following sound doctrine where marriage is concerned, that does not excuse your own laxity. Did Jesus ever say, "If one or two of your brothers and sisters ignores what I have said and what God has said for their own benefit, then you may ignore me as well for you own?"

originally posted by: syrinx high priest

How many Christians have gone out and acted on it by murdering people?

you should actually look into that

So there have been many, many examples of mass murders by Christians in the name of Christianity? So many that we do not have to go looking at tribal Africa where they are fighting Muslims or the abortion bombings or try to explain how this or that guy who was acting out for a different motive identified as Christian?

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: markosity1973

God passes eternal destiny judgment on all of us as individuals.

And, he passes judgment on cultures, civilizations, nations in terms of what they value, what they do, what and who they worship.

Individual Christians are instructed to judge one another and others by the fruit of their choices and behaviors.

ALL THINGS ARE not EQUAL.

Not all trains end up in Rome.

Not all choices are equal.

Not all behaviors are equal.

Choices have consequences--individually AND COLLECTIVELY.

Pretending that the choices of corrupt politicians are merely 'their own thing' of no consequence to the culture and the serfs and slaves is idiocy.

Corruption, missing the mark of perfection, idolatries of the flesh or Molach or whatever insufficient god will always bring dreadful consequences to individuals and cultures--sooner or later.

It doesn't matter of 99.9999% call black white and evil good and good evil . . .

God alone decides such things.

And, HE happens to be bigger than the whole planet by an infinite amount.

And HIS WORD WILL BE

Very final.

And God's gift to humanity was free will.

Yet you insinuate that this free will should be curbed because your view on life differs from mine. Furthermore certain 'Christian' groups are rejoicing in this latest hate crime against the LGBT community. Not very classy and I cannot believe you would stand up and preach when your own kind are revelling and spreading hate over America's worst mass killing.

Have some humanity.

So, if an ISIS fan kills 50, it's the fault of redneck Christians....

Can't you see how racist that is? This obsession with European white males excludes Southwest Asians from the realm of causality. Your view holds non-whites in such low esteem that they couldn't be responsible for great evil---that anything important that happens, happens because of what white males are thinking or doing.

It's the same attitude behind the "truther" movement: that Arabs are not really capable of being actors in world history, so white people must be the REAL cause of it.

Same racism at work here, WHITE evil is the real source of the murders. The outsider who pulled the trigger is just a place-holder for what someone white thought, what some white person wanted to do.

You don't assign responsibility to non-whites because you think only white people are capable of true acts of good or evil.

Personally I've grown to appreciate all the unchecked Christian bashing around here.

You bigots have probably converted more nonbelievers over to our side than any of us could've done by ourselves.

Keep up the good work.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: markosity1973

Separation of church and state.

That is all I am gonna say.

Jesus himself acknowledged the laws of man when he said the following in Mark 12:17;

Then Jesus said to them, "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." And they were amazed at him.

Marriage by the state is a law of man. It is not the same as religious marriage.

Otherwise Atheists and all non Christians would never marry. The Christian version of marriage remains unchanged because it requires an ordained Priest to perform the ritual in the presence of God. Civil marriage on the other hand is just a piece of paper signed at an office. It does however afford some very important civil rights, that are once again the laws of man, not God.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Christianity is still conflicted between letting go and holding on.
How many different christian churches are there simply because these people can't agree on the small things,
what about the serious matters then?

I think religion has proved itself to have good intent, but very destructive behavior.
I don't like the LGBT community, but I'll always be polite and defend THEIR right to live THEIR lives the way they choose.
Ain't none of my business. and it shouldn't be anyone else's.

There will be a lot of people making this their business just to take their own agenda's forward.

a reply to: Gemwolf

But this time round the question on many people's lips is "Is religion the problem?".

Some of us have been asking (and answering) this for years and years.

Is religion the problem?
Yes. Religion and mental illness. Besties.

a reply to: onequestion

Christians aren't blowing up people around the world on a weekly basis.

You sure?

When was the last drone attack?

The notion that the Obama Administration has carried out drone strikes only when there is “near-certainty of no collateral damage” is easily disproved propaganda. America hasn’t killed a handful of innocents or a few dozen in the last 8 years.

Credible, independent attempts to determine how many civilians the Obama administration has killed arrived at numbers in the hundreds or low thousands. And there is good reason to believe that they undercount the civilians killed.

Why the disparity between what American officials claim and what others report? The New York Times provided a first clue back in 2012, when it reported that the U.S. “in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent."

www.theatlantic.com...

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Religion is not the problem. Forcing one's will on others is the problem, whether it's an Islamist or a Christian or an Atheist forcing their will on others... whether it's a White person or Black person or Brown person forcing their will on others... whether it's a Liberal or a Conservative or an Independent forcing their will on others.... whether it's a cisgendered person or a trans person forcing their will on others... whether it's a straight person or a gay person forcing their will on others... The problem is always one person or group forcing their will on others, and the solution is not to turn the tables so that another group is just forcing their will on others.

Not wanting to serve people because of your feelings towards them is not your right or your freedom in the 21st century.

Yes, it is, as much as others want to change that, natural law will always prevail, and people will find ways to do as they will.... but forcing anyone to serve anyone else in any way is forced servitude -- slavery -- and just a different person/group forcing their will on others... just different sides to the same coin... and it creates exactly the vicious circle we now see.

There are plenty of ways we could use our laws and regulations to reward -- and therefore encourage and promote -- non-discrimination, without forcing anyone to do anything. No matter how good and noble one's intentions are, forcing one's will on anyone is not the way to do it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

a reply to: GreenGunther

You said it better than I could.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

If we start denying people the freedom to speak their minds on any subject, then we are denying freedoms.

It's as simple as that.

A muslim killed a bunch of people at the club.

I don't think we should ban all muslims.

I also think we shouldn't single out any specific group to protect simply because they were targeted by this one muslim.

Why is freedom such a hard concept to embrace?

Freedom isn't always pretty, freedom isn't always polite, freedom isn't always nice. But neither are all people.

After Orlando, time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom: Neil Macdonald

Damn , religion(true religion) has known this forever. You just now figuring it out ?

a reply to: ketsuko

But his teaching on marriage to the Pharisees was very clear. It had to be. It is between a man and a woman.

Then why did Jesus so easily use the parable of the 12 maidens waiting for their groom....one groom, for 12 maidens? Unfortunately, half of the maidens in the story were too immature, too ill prepared to marry, thank heavens! They were probably 9 year olds!

a reply to: tothetenthpower

This thread is such absolute bull#. You do realize there are gay Christians?

Anyways, I don't care what anyone wants to do as long as it doesn't hurt someone else or violate the law. That includes sex or guns or religion. But, the upshot is, I don't want to be told how to think/feel about it, Nor do I want any of it shoved on me or my kids with some agenda driven media, initiatives, protests or asshattery like violence.