After Orlando, time to recognize that anti-gay bigotry is not religious freedom: Neil Macdonald

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Out of curiosity do you feel the same about musicians who won't play in States they don't like, or cake shops that won't make anti gay-marriage messages on their cakes? Or do you just feel that a certain point of you should be enforced?

And once again we seem to have pivoted to talking about Christians even though it's Muslims who keep murdering people. It seems the anti-christian bigots will use any excuse to promote hate against their favorite scapegoat.

Those murderous muslims that you fear so much are nothing compared to the number of self professed christians who kill others. This crime aside, (since we're not yet sure if muslim belief was a factor in this tragedy) in the US, muslims have killed 45 people in the last 15 years, i.e. those dangerous muslims that are destroying our country and imperiling our young kill fewer Americans than bees or pit bulls. how many christians have murdered other Americans in the same 15 year time period? I dont have exact figures, but considering the percentage of christians in prison, I'd guess the number is significantly more than an average of 3-6 per year.

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: tothetenthpower

What in the world are you babbling about? It was a Muslim who killed the gay people. Refusing to take part in a gay marriage and murdering 50 people because they're gay are completely different things. Christians aren't murdering anybody. We get it you don't like Christians and you're a bigot.

I agree that this is being used against Christians.

This was a radical ISIS follower not a Christian sorry.

Christians aren't blowing up people around the world on a weekly basis. They are being burned alive.

a reply to: TheBulk

It's not being looked at in the context of war, which they have declared on us, it's being looked at in the context of a religious/ civil rights issue, I guess some progress is made if many on the left wing are finally starting to understand Islamic terrorism is in part religiously based! (Wow)

Now, only they must understand that these radicals or literalists, do not separate church and state, therefor their belief system is an all encompassing way of life, that is why when they declare war they can mobilize from anywhere in the world under their umbrella of hate.

They also must understand forming a caliphate and spreading Islam through any means possible is an end goal for many of these literalists. with all that said, we are talking about a nazi like ideology with religious underpinnings, world wide, that is committing genocides, slavery, the exploitation of all land and resources, the attacks against innocents and non military targets, and economic attacks, once these things are fully understood in their rightful context then we will address this problem as we should, until then expect more civil rights discussion Ect.

the nature of the beast is two parts, those committing the acts of war, and those in denial that a war is taking place.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Here here!

originally posted by: ReprobateRaccoon

originally posted by: TheBulk
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Out of curiosity do you feel the same about musicians who won't play in States they don't like, or cake shops that won't make anti gay-marriage messages on their cakes? Or do you just feel that a certain point of you should be enforced?

And once again we seem to have pivoted to talking about Christians even though it's Muslims who keep murdering people. It seems the anti-christian bigots will use any excuse to promote hate against their favorite scapegoat.

Those murderous muslims that you fear so much are nothing compared to the number of self professed christians who kill others. This crime aside, (since we're not yet sure if muslim belief was a factor in this tragedy) in the US, muslims have killed 45 people in the last 15 years, i.e. those dangerous muslims that are destroying our country and imperiling our young kill fewer Americans than bees or pit bulls. how many christians have murdered other Americans in the same 15 year time period? I dont have exact figures, but considering the percentage of christians in prison, I'd guess the number is significantly more than an average of 3-6 per year.

What are you smoking

No seriously show me a source that verifies this information
What a joke

a reply to: TheBulk

Thank you for proving my point.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

Proving what point that your using this as an excuse to blame christians

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Proving what point that your using this as an excuse to blame christians

Oh Jesus you too?

You all took an article that was about something and twisted it into something else.

The article was about not allowing the religious ( ie all religious people) to stop claiming that bigotry against gay people is their right or somehow a religious freedom.

It is not.

I am not blaming Christians for this massacre obviously, how about we tone down the hyperbole?

I'm saying that in a majority Christian nation, if the Christians consistently bad mouth a group and discriminate against them, it's going to influence the thoughts of other groups.

That's all.

It's funny that Christians cry about their declining membership and the good old days of when more than 70% of the population identified as Christian, but God Forbid you point out that group think happens and has negative consequences within that group.

~Tenth

a reply to: tothetenthpower

The terrorist act in Orlando is not about freedom of religion, but the right under a radicalism of a religion to be allowed to persecute and execute those around that are different because under the believes of that radical side of a particular religion is ok to do so.

How strong are those believes? they are strong enough that is a divine mandate to be judge and executioner all in one instance to die while committing the act.

Is this freedom of religion? no, is an act of terrorism, because the ideology that prompted the act, can go anyway, including killing and persecuting those that practice different religious ideologies.

a reply to: onequestion

I'm not saying it isn't. But openly allowing laws which are dictated by religion to single out another group that in no way shape or form effects the other is an even slipperier slope.

I don't see how sexuality should be decided by the state...let alone religion.

But here we are. And people are dying because if it. One extreme is no better than another no matter if they use passive aggressive (laws) or force (terrorism).

The first amendment does NOT reserve the right to trample on the rights of others. And if it does, then all is lost and it's time to throw out that piece if paper and rewrite it.

originally posted by: onequestion

What are you smoking

No seriously show me a source that verifies this information
What a joke

Non-Muslims Carried Out More than 90% of All Terrorist Attacks in America
www.globalresearch.ca...

Deadly Attacks Since 9/11
securitydata.newamerica.net... (not counting this as a "muslim terror attack until religion is confirmed as the motivating factor)

So, this is the natural outgrowth of the other thread where instead of talking about Muslim terrorism we got treated to a Christian bash, and people told me for along time I had some kind of persecution complex.

It isn't a persecution complex if people are really advocating persecution because that is what you are doing. You want the state to crawl up into people's religions and tell them what they are allowed to do and say. This is the natural outgrowth of SJW thinking where everyone has to have their safe space ... except for the religious because they might say things you don't like.

Read the 1st Amendment. Read the 2nd Amendment.

Answer me how those jive with what you want to propose.

a reply to: Gemwolf

Wow. That guy was one unbelievable POS!!!

"The good news is now there are 50 less pedophiles...The bad news is every other pedophile in the bar was left alive.....The other bad news is now people will persecute Christians for what happened."

Why is it that it's always 50 completely innocent people that are killed that were just minding their own business and yet guys like this never seem to run into trouble and have their own church from which to say this kind of sh*t as their message to the world????

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I don't think it's possible to have a fair-minded, objective discussion about this topic any more than it is about abortion.

There are plausible reasons that folks of faith can have for disagreeing with a list of behaviors

WITHOUT rejecting individuals as persons and

WITHOUT wanting them to suffer abuse and

while defending them as persons and wishing them well.

Yet, any even slight disagreement or disapproval of whatever specific behavior from the list is not Politically PRESCRIBED "CORRECTNESS" that defines such disagreement as bigotry and hate.

That's nonsense.

Disagreement is NOT automatically hate or bigotry. It can simply be disagreement based on logical reasons.

However, the oligarchy has long been working to alter the foundations of our culture and our values. They have largely succeeded.

They did so with abortion, successfully. It was NOT because they cared a flip about woman's rights or reproductive health. It was because they bought the notion that the population needs to be drastically reduced by force. They don't care about women's rights any more than they care about human rights.

They also don't care greatly about gay rights. They merely want to use gays and the related issues to create division and chaos in the culture in order to make it easier to destroy the culture. This much is clear from their early-in-this century documents and pronouncements in their own words.

I realize that this perspective will be shouted down. So be it.

I am disappointed in you tenth. You frame this thread as a discussion, a genuine dialogue. I'm skeptical you really want dialogue.

It appears to me you are only interested in propagandized INDOCTRINATION and compliance with your construction on reality.

originally posted by: ketsuko
So, this is the natural outgrowth of the other thread where instead of talking about Muslim terrorism we got treated to a Christian bash, and people told me for along time I had some kind of persecution complex.

It isn't a persecution complex if people are really advocating persecution because that is what you are doing. You want the state to crawl up into people's religions and tell them what they are allowed to do and say. This is the natural outgrowth of SJW thinking where everyone has to have their safe space ... except for the religious because they might say things you don't like.

Read the 1st Amendment. Read the 2nd Amendment.

Answer me how those jive with what you want to propose.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

However, we know where this is going. We know they will win the day for at least 3.5-7 years AFTER the major traumas begin.

Nevertheless, we do well to stand up for what is sane and true.

Yesss

One can love and follow Jesus, Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, Krishna or whoever.

But.....

Just because a book written thousands of years ago by less civilised men says gay is wrong does not mean that one gets to perpetuate the hate in this day and age.

Live and let live, do so unselfishly and in humility.

So we can drop the Islamophobia free card now for Muslim and identify the poison ideas for what they are in whatever political movement they exists?



One of the core beliefs in Abrahamic religions are Dualism (us vs them thinking).

I am gonna quote what I wrote on another thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I appose all prophets/politicians who create (dualism us vs them) thinking in their people since it is a cancer that spread thru the populace creating violence and hinders the ability to coexists.

Paul spread this insanity/corruption to Christianety. Muhammad spread this insanity/corruption to the Muslim. Hitler spread this insanity/corruption during the 2nd world war. This idea causes genocide where ever it goes.

If any souls is free of this corruption then it can coexists peacefully with other cultures and follow the golden rule. It took a lot of time to minimize Paul:s corruption and Europe is not 100% well yet.

Now we should fill Europe with the people who still are fighting war over what version of Islam is correct and they are going to leave behind the old hate of Jews and each other just because they are in the west?

If the worst manifestation of violence from the Muslim community was some small group of lowest IQ people who bashed in each others head based on sports team that can be handled by the local police then I would say Islam have become peaceful enough so it is a waste of time evolving it further. That level of insanity I can coexist with. Islam is not there yet.

Please Muslim. Prove to all humanity that you can coexist and create Secular societies treating all people the same regardless of Race, Gender, Religion and sexuality.

I should point out that I do believe that Sufi Muslim will have no trouble answering this challenge.

Let me help with this thread. Here are list of historical ways the religious have been handled when they get "uppity."

1.) Russia sent them off to gulags.

2.) North Korea I think does the same if they don't just shoot them.

3.) Germany made them wear colored patches, live in certain districts and occasionally take showers (you gays ought to be familiar with this)

4.) Romans used them for entertainment. Used them in spectacles with gladiators and lions and stuff.

Now given that you guys are also trying to kill off football and I don't really see Americans embracing soccer, my advice is that you might look at #4. You are going to need something to replace football in the American psyche.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Bo and all of those who think like you.....

Not so long ago left handedness was literally beaten out of children.

Not so long ago, black people were fighting segregation in America

Not so long ago interracial marriage was frowned upon.

Not long before all of that women united to fight for their right to vote.

Change happens. It needs to. By accepting gay, nobody is suggesting anyone become gay. Nor are they asking you to stop following your God. But they are asking to stop the hate towards them. After all as a Christian, you believe that it is only God almighty who gets to pass final judgement, no?

originally posted by: Gemwolf
It's interesting that with this massacre I've seen the theme of religion pop up more than with any of the other similar events in the past. (Or as far as I can recall.)

Usually there is the first outcry against guns (gun-laws) or the lack of help for people with mental problems or anti-Muslim sentiment. But this time round the question on many people's lips is "Is religion the problem?".

And I'm yet to understand why this exact incident allows for parallels to be drawn between religion based bigotry and mass shootings?

Perhaps it's video's like this (I hate to give this guy any more traffic, but this Muppet's absolute ignorance and hate should be shown to the world):

You do realize that this topic will once again be used as "proof" for "The war on Christianity"?

If only those hateful Christians, Muslims, Satanists, Mormons, Atheists, etc. realized that there is no War against their religions. There's a war against their hate. If they use their religion as a shield for their hate, that shield will get damaged...

And I thought there should be a "Separation of church and state" to begin with?

I guess the guy in the video has really opened my eyes to my own ignorance of Christianity.
I thought it was just new testament that made someone Christian but this sounds like proper, ot stuff.

I admit I sat here open mouthed watching that. I'm utterly shocked.

He's no better than that idiot with hooks for hands in my opinion.