Pediatric nurse sues Winnebago Co Health Dept after losing job for her beliefs

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: TerryDon79

She wasn't made or forced to take a life. She wasn't made or forced to do anything. You keep using it as your argument, but again, you're wrong.

I was responding to Dawnstar, not to you...

Still an open forum the last time looked.

And for nurses who have been working on pediatric care on helping save an improve lives to then change it to take lives there is a big difference. It certainly is not the same as your supervisor at McDonalds making you clean the toilet...

I've never worked at McDonalds. Nice try though.

And she WASN'T asked to take lives. She WASN'T forced to do anything.

You've set up a fallacy that you can't even figure out.

Her job role changed. Big deal. It happens. Go cry somewhere else.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TerryDon79

I wouldn't have used that term if it wasn't that I've been seeing it in so many thread titles on ATS lately. really ain't sure of what they are meaning by it. I am probably redefining it here... but it just seems to fit so nicely!

I believe it means a special kind of person who gets their little feelings hurt over nothing.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

so she does what my son did when the job he was assigned to was hurting his back to the point he could barely get up in the morning!! find another job! and don't tell me she would have had to move outside of the country, because that is just wrong. I am pretty sure she had better job openings to pick from in the private sector than my son had.

a reply to: TerryDon79

oh, I like my defination better, people who feel they should be treated special and not have to put up with the annoyances the rest of us do.
like the doctors in catholic hospitals who are being force to sit and do nothing while women endure miscarriages for long extended times and develop infections, even though many may just feel that it's a bit immoral to just wait around for the heartbeat of the nonviable fetus to stop as the women suffers.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TerryDon79

oh, I like my defination better, people who feel they should be treated special and not have to put up with the annoyances the rest of us do.

I can get behind that. I also don't know if my interpretation of what it is is accurate or not.

like the doctors in catholic hospitals who are being force to sit and do nothing while women endure miscarriages for long extended times and develop infections, even though many may just feel that it's a bit immoral to just wait around for the heartbeat of the nonviable fetus to stop as the women suffers.

Yet aren't doctors taught to do no harm? Kind of ironic really. Leaving a fetus, who can FEEL PAIN, just laying there, thrashing, screaming and whatever else. Sounds so much better than to put it out of its pain. /sarcasm.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
I've never worked at McDonalds. Nice try though.

When you respond to a thread that has nothing to do with "cleaning the toilets at McDonalds", since it has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand it implies that you are making what you think is a good analogy from a personal perspective.

Cleaning toilets at McDonalds is not the same as forcing nurses to induce abortion...

originally posted by: TerryDon79
And she WASN'T asked to take lives. She WASN'T forced to do anything.

Learn to follow an argument. I already presented evidence that when fertilization occurs it marks the start of a new human lifeform, and drugs like ella block progesterone which is needed to maintain a pregnancy.

Even wikipedia, a very left wing site gets it...

Fertilization (also known as generative fertilization, conception, fecundation, syngamy and impregnation[1]) is the fusion of gametes to initiate the development of a new individual organism.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

The NAZIS did the same thing to minorities, forcing abortions and forcing doctors and nurses to perform them... But hey according to you "it was their new job so big deal and go cry somewhere else"...

This day and age, eugenics is being enforced another way in developing nations, by making women believe that by terminating their pregnancies they are free"...

And of course, in the process to force nurses and doctors to perform said abortions even if they disagree with them.

a reply to: dawnstar

You want to be free? go do all the abortions you want, just don't force others that don't agree with your point of view to pay for them or to perform them.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: TerryDon79
I've never worked at McDonalds. Nice try though.

When you respond to a thread that has nothing to do with "cleaning the toilets at McDonalds", since it has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand it implies that you are making what you think is a good analogy from a personal perspective.

It doesn't really. That's just what you took away from it. None of your posts, past the op, have had anything to do with the thread either. Hi pot. Meet kettle.

Cleaning toilets at McDonalds is not the same as forcing nurses to induce abortion...

Oh. You mean like the thing that didn't happen to the nurse in your op? It does though. It's called an analogy. Look it up.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
And she WASN'T asked to take lives. She WASN'T forced to do anything.

Learn to follow an argument. I already presented evidence that when fertilization occurs it marks the start of a new human lifeform, and drugs like ella block progesterone which is needed to maintain a pregnancy.

And you've been shown where you're wrong.

Even wikipedia, a very left wing site gets it...

Fertilization (also known as generative fertilization, conception, fecundation, syngamy and impregnation[1]) is the fusion of gametes to initiate the development of a new individual organism.
...

en.wikipedia.org...

oh look. That proves you wrong number. Irony.

The NAZIS did the same thing to minorities, forcing abortions and forcing doctors and nurses to perform them... But hey according to you "it was their new job so big deal and go cry somewhere else"...

You sure do like your fallacies. Do you keep them all bookmarked? Also, SHE WASNT FORCED TO DO ANYTHING. Can you read that better?

This day and age, eugenics is being enforced another way in developing nations, by making women believe that by terminating their pregnancies they are free"...

Another fallacy. Well done. Keep it up, you might earn a cookie.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: dawnstar

You want to be free? go do all the abortions you want, just don't force others that don't agree with your point of view to pay for them or to perform them.

Who was forced to do anything? The nurse wasn't she decided not to do it. She made a choice. You can't force someone to do something if they have a choice not to do it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

do you know of any other way to prevent the death of a women who has an ectopic pregnancy?
is there any reason for a catholic hospital to not refer such a women to someone willing to abort the pregnancy?
is there any reason not to abort it themselves?
then why do they neglect to do either, but rather wait around till they can use the excuse that the tube has been damaged and need to be cut out... thus aborting but not actually admitting that they are?

a reply to: TerryDon79

but I would prefer they be forced to do it, when the alternative is to pose a health risk to the mother.

and, when you are talking about the county health clinics, I am sorry but most clinics are expected to be involved in family planning which means distributing birth control and information about birth control, although I know of none that actually provide abortions, referrals to places that will do them yes, but they don't do them.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: TerryDon79

but I would prefer they be forced to do it, when the alternative is to pose a health risk to the mother.

I agree, but their religion (for some reason the concocted themselves) prevents it. Let's just be happy they don't run all the hospitals.

and, when you are talking about the county health clinics, I am sorry but most clinics are expected to be involved in family planning which means distributing birth control and information about birth control, although I know of none that actually provide abortions, referrals to places that will do them yes, but they don't do them.

I guess it covers there backs to religious group protests and all the problems that the family planning clinics have had. Sad really.

a reply to: TerryDon79

wow... Listen, there are intelligent analogies that make sense, and there are stupid ones that make no sense whatsoever...

If you would have stated "this is like the supervisor at McDonalds trying to force you to have sex with them or you will be fired", then your analogy would have made sense and would have been a bit more on point. But having in your job description the cleaning of bathrooms has nothing to do with healthcare providers trying to force nurses and doctors to perform abortions...

You claim it's not happening and that "having your supervisor at McDonalds make you clean the toilet is more important"? Then perhaps you should start a thread about boycotting McDonalds and trying to stop them from making their employees clean the toilets. But it certainly has nothing to do with this thread. So unless you actually have something intelligent to say, stop trying to derail the thread.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: TerryDon79

wow... Listen, there are intelligent analogies that make sense, and there are stupid ones that make no sense whatsoever...

If you would have stated "this is like the supervisor at McDonalds trying to force you to have sex with them", then your analogy would have made sense and would have been a bit more on point. But having in your job description the cleaning of bathrooms has nothing to do with healthcare providers trying to force nurses and doctors to perform abortions...

You claim it's not happening and that "having your supervisor at McDonalds make you clean the toilet is more important"? Then perhaps you should start a thread about boycotting McDonalds and trying to stop them from making their employees clean the toilets. But it certainly has nothing to do with this thread. So unless you actually have something intelligent to say, stop trying to derail the thread.

The analogies are correct as what happened was the job role was changed. No difference if it's a nurse, doctor, fast food, IT or anywhere else. It happens.

My something intelligent to say has been said plenty of times, yet you still spout rubbish. She was not forced to do a damned thing.

a reply to: TerryDon79

one doctor wanted his patient to have her tubes tied when she had her c-section because she was suffering from cancer and he was afraid that her health was too poor go through two operations. the catholic hospital refused, it was against their religion. and well, the doctor really didn't want to transfer his patient to another doctor who wasn't as knowledgeable to her condition who's practiced at a non-catholic hospital, which was quite a distance away if I remember right... so well, I believe that she had to undergo two surgeries.

another was sent home something like three times while in the process of having a miscarriage. I believe it was while they were sending her home the third time that she collasped and they took her in, by then she was septic.

in some areas of the country the only hospital within a 100 mile radius is run by catholics. I believe it's something like 1 in 7 hospital beds today are in these hospitals. it's a problem.

a reply to: TerryDon79

It's not the same when in one you are asked to clean toilets which has always been part of the job for some employees, more so new employees at McDonalds and in another you are asked to train on how to perform abortions...

a reply to: dawnstar

This is one of the many reasons I'm happy to be living in the UK. Hospitals and clinics are there to treat you, not to be a religious temple.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: TerryDon79

It's not the same when in one you are asked to clean toilets which has always been part of the job for some employees, more so new employees at McDonalds and in another you are asked to train on how to perform abortions...

It was a job responsibility change. Big deal.

Also, wasn't asked to train on how to perform abortions. Do you even read your own links?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

they are not performing abortion though, she is objecting the idea of referring patients to providers that perform abortions.....maybe some of those patients have good reason to want an abortion, giving information about birth control, and distributing birth control.
find me one county run health clinic that is providing abortions!
your argument that plan b is abortion can be also used for every other hormonal birth control method, which I am sorry is one of the services that every country run health clinic in the country also does. and if the truth be known, she is catholic so she would oppose to handing out condoms even!

Anyway...back to trying to stay on topic instead of trying to make the thread about "cleaning toilets"...

Similar things have happened in the past, and continue happening.

12 nurses accuse UMDNJ of forcing them to assist in abortion cases despite religious and moral objections

By Seth Augenstein | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on November 14, 2011 at 8:11 PM, updated November 14, 2011 at 8:12 PM

NEWARK — Standing on the steps of the school’s administration building, 12 nurses today accused the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey of abruptly forcing them to assist in abortion cases, despite religious and moral objections to the procedures.

"In October, we were suddenly confronted with a choice between our faith and our jobs," said Fe Esperanza-Racpan Vinoya, one of the suing University Hospital nurses. "They said very clearly if we did not assist, we would face termination."
...
Twelve nurses at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey filed a lawsuit claiming the hospital required them to undergo training that involved assisting in abortions. They gathered Monday for a press conference outside the hospital administration building in Newark.
...
A federal judge granted a temporary restraining order on Nov. 3 stopping all the training, procedures and performances related to abortions for the suing nurses.

As many as 16 first- and second-trimester abortions are performed in University Hospital on Fridays, Vinoya said. She recounts that a nurse manager told one of the nurses opposed to being a part of the abortion procdure to lend a direct hand after an abortion within the last month.

"The nurse manager said, ‘You just have to catch the baby’s head. Don’t worry, it’s already dead,’" Vinoya recalled.
...

www.nj.com...