Autogynephilia: The Elephant in the Transgender Bathroom

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

What "law" do you think was "just implemented"?

Out of curiosity ... what are you referring to?

a reply to: kaylaluv

It seems to me that we are trying to find a solution for a problem that really doesn't exist. Sure, there are perverts out there that will do some pretty nasty things, but that is not limited to those that live or believe in a fashion we personally disagree with.

Perverts come from all types of lifestyles. This current issue is nothing more than a scapegoat to focus hatred and anger now that the homosexual lifestyle/gay marriage issue has been taken off the table for discussion.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law" seems to be the order of the day.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Must be the court cases that use title 9 that have been stacking up?

originally posted by: Boadicea

And probably most effective, and therefore most practical, would be to conduct the necessary research to properly understand this and other conditions associated with violence and sex offenses, then develop the proper treatments, and reduce -- if not eliminate -- the threat.

What is "this and other conditions associated with violence and sex offenses"?

Autgynephilia???

I could have sworn you just clarified that you weren't claiming that all AGPs are violent ... didn't you?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: kaylaluv

It seems to me that we are trying to find a solution for a problem that really doesn't exist. Sure, there are perverts out there that will do some pretty nasty things, but that is not limited to those that live or believe in a fashion we personally disagree with.

Perverts come from all types of lifestyles. This current issue is nothing more than a scapegoat to focus hatred and anger now that the homosexual lifestyle/gay marriage issue has been taken off the table for discussion.

100 percent right.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: new_here

"reddit"

That should give you a clue.

What do you even mean by that? Because it's reddit, they're lying? Is that the best you can do? By that logic, your posts on ATS are not to be taken seriously either.

I think what you really meant, though, is... you don't have an answer to my comment that would further your agenda, so you must discredit an entire community (asktransgender on reddit.) I don't think your trans friends over there would appreciate that very much. You're pretty much discounting their own personal narratives as bullsh*t. Isn't that what a they call transphobic, or bigot?

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yeah it's weird. Autogynephilia is an attraction to self, especially when he thinks he's a woman. How does that translate to being a danger to women and children? The very definition is an attraction to self, much like narcissism.

originally posted by: AceWombat04

Until someone can explain to me definitively and persuasively why and how there is an implicit harm greater than that already present under the current status quo derived from granting and enshrining equal rights protections to transgender individuals, I cannot and will not countenance these arguments, which in the absence thereof, sound consistently like a moral panic predicated on the notion that we are opening some vaguely and ill defined Pandora's box, because people are engaging in a slippery slope fallacy.

Beautifully elegant.

Perfectly stated.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yeah it's weird. Autogynephilia is an attraction to self, especially when he thinks he's a woman. How does that translate to being a danger to women and children? The very definition is an attraction to self, much like narcissism.

Yes, I know.

I wasn't going to point that out ... I don't want to "pile on."

OP is conflating AGP with exhibitionism and a bit of sadism, I would think.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: IlluminatiTechnician
If all churches were gone, they would still rape little boys in refugee camps, ice cream trucks or wherever.

Very true. Same could be said about predators in women's bathrooms. A predator is going to do what a predator wants to do, no matter what. Banning transgenders from the bathroom of their gender identity isn't going to stop it.

The women's room was safer than any other room out there before now, as only women were allowed to enter...now any man can, just by saying that he identifies as a woman. Your statement is not entirely true.

Were women's restrooms magical?

What an absurd statement.

Man Beats 9-Year-Old Girl in Jacksonville Best Buy Bathroom: Police

James Patrick Tadros, 29, is also charged with false imprisonment and criminal mischief in the incident which happened just after 5 p.m. Friday at the store at 9930 Southside Boulevard, according to a release from the Jacksonville Police Department.

According to the release, a witness heard someone screaming and crying inside the women's restroom and went inside to see if they needed help.

Good news, the little girl survived.

Bad news, the guy was not trans* or AGP or anything else ... and this happened in 2013 in a public restroom.

Give me a break. I didn't say they were bullet proof. It was just common knowledge that men didn't go into the women's rooms, and if they did, everyone thought it was weird, and they would just call the cops to remove or apprehend them. Sure, things would've happened in the women's room regardless, but not like on a scale that it will now...now that ALL men can enter without the cops being called.

Common knowledge didn't keep the guy from harming the little girl.

That's my point. The issue (if there is one) is the relative safety of public restrooms NOT who uses which one.

There is nothing to keep store security from observing the situation or from calling the police. In fact, they should do so.

I've gone into women's restrooms more than once when it was a situation of "gotta go, gotta go." Most women laugh at my embarrassment.

It's just that the idea that a true sexual predator would be so stupid (as apparently some wingnut activists are) as to put on a dress, make a big scene and "pretend to be a woman" is patently absurd.

I see your point, with that one example (possibly other's out there), but I digress. My point is "opportunity" and "numbers". There will be MORE men in the bathroom now that shouldn't be there. There will be MORE opportunity...for pedophile's and rapists. Lest we forget the Syrian issue, and who they are letting into our country by the thousands. Call it absurd, or whatever you want, but more numbers and more opportunity affords more situational hazzards just by default.


As for this statement...

It's just that the idea that a true sexual predator would be so stupid (as apparently some wingnut activists are) as to put on a dress, make a big scene and "pretend to be a woman" is patently absurd.

Here is my answer:

Man Disguised as Woman Recorded "Hours" of Mall Restroom, investigator's say.

Charges were filed Tuesday against a man who wore a wig and women's clothing to disguise himself as he allegedly used a concealed camera to record "hours" of video of women in a Los Angeles-area department store restroom.

And for this statement...

I've gone into women's restrooms more than once when it was a situation of "gotta go, gotta go." Most women laugh at my embarrassment.

The women I know in America...are just not this comfortable with men PERIOD...let alone one laughing of embarrassment in their bathroom. I am calling your bluff.

originally posted by: new_here

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: new_here

"reddit"

That should give you a clue.

What do you even mean by that? Because it's reddit, they're lying? Is that the best you can do? By that logic, your posts on ATS are not to be taken seriously either.

I think what you really meant, though, is... you don't have an answer to my comment that would further your agenda, so you must discredit an entire community (asktransgender on reddit.) I don't think your trans friends over there would appreciate that very much. You're pretty much discounting their own personal narratives as bullsh*t. Isn't that what a they call transphobic, or bigot?

Pretty sure he is saying it doesn't mean anything. Using Internet dialogue is not a study and doesn't prove anything.

There’s only one solution to this seemingly unsolvable problem like many other problems.

Learn how to love each other whatever we are.


To the OP….Great scholarship and information! You have added to public knowledge and for that whatever your opinion, you should be praised immensely!

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

We are making progress!!! LOL

Why will there be MORE MEN in women's bathrooms?

Why will there be MORE OPPORTUNITY for pedophiles and rapists?

Think it through ... I know this idea has upset you (as it was meant to) and I don't blame you for being upset.

We are talking about the same people going into the same bathrooms they always have. No one is going to stand at the door and decide if someone is male looking or female looking not check out their genitalia ...

Think about it ... does a sexual predator want to make themselves PUBLIC? MEMORABLE?

No, they don't.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

What "law" do you think was "just implemented"?

Out of curiosity ... what are you referring to?

NY Times-Obama to issue decree squashing transgender ‘bathroom law’.

The Obama administration will issue a sweeping decree Friday telling every US public school district to allow transgender students to use the bathroom that matches their gender identity. The letter, signed by officials from the Education and Justice departments, does not have the force of law but contains an implicit threat that schools that do not abide by the Obama administration’s interpretation of 'the law' could face lawsuits or a loss of federal aid.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: introvert

Perhaps you meant to reply to the other member. That quote is not from me.

You're the one who claimed to have access to a literature that nobody else can have access to.

COMMENTARY
Veale’s (2014) Critique of Blanchard’s Typology Was Invalid

Evidence Against a Typology: A Taxometric Analysis of the Sexuality of Male-to-Female Transsexuals (
This was the quoted article)

What is More Bizarre: The Transsexual or Transsexual Politics?: Men Trapped In Men's Bodies: Narratives of Autogynephilic Transsexualism. By Anne A. Lawrence, New York Springer, 2013.

A case study that represents the cultural narrative (to be fair) Gender Dysphoria: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back

And many, many more.

I know that many of you are invested in the idea that transgender automatically means completely harmless and benign, but the overall picture is more complicated. Having said that, I do believe that the overwhelming majority of transgender individuals pose no threat to others, and are (mostly) harmless to themselves. But to say that there are no negative aspects and that autogynephilia is just an off-hand fetish that doesn't have anything to do with transgenderism, or simply... not real, is disingenuous. This is discussed a great deal, and while his conclusions are certainly critiqued, Blanchard is not just dismissed as a crack pot within the psychological community. Sorry to burst your respective bubbles.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: new_here
a reply to: luthier

...these and to have AGS you don't want to be woman.

Then why are those AGP who are taking estrogen, posting on asktransgender subreddit identifying as women? Why did the endo give then estrogen, and the therapist sign off on it?

Do you understand the differences between sexual orientation, gender identity and paraphilias?

You seem to be equating them, and they're just not equal.

I did not at all treat them as synonyms and you know it... or you have reading comprehension problems.
I did not say, imply, insinuate that ALL transgender MtF are AGP. But there are enough of them around to give pause, and my question stands... Why did the endo give then estrogen, and the therapist sign off on it? This is a question trans activists do not want to answer.

a reply to: IlluminatiTechnician

Oh, so much for making progress.

You're calling my bluff eh?

You know how all 170 million American women would react eh?

Perhaps the women you know have ... issues with men? I have no idea.

That is about the most roundabout way I've ever been called a liar to my face though, gratz.

(I guess you've never been at a busy bar or nightclub or sports venue or outdoor concert? /shrug)

a reply to: new_here

Nope. No reading comprehension problems.

I'll go with your misunderstanding for a moment: these trans* MTF that you claim are AGP ... why would their existence "give you pause"?

I didn't say they weren't trans* or that they haven't qualified for sex reassignment treatment.

It's not "a question trans* activists dont' want to answer" ... it's a silly question.

One more time:

Gender Identity (trans* MTF) and Paraphilia (AGP) are not the same thing. One does not limit the other. One does not define the other nor exclude the other ... but they are DIFFERENT!

a reply to: redhorse

Lawrence's work is about the adoption of a political gender identity. There's a difference.

Beyond that ... you're offering a few study titles as your proof? Goodness.



CIte your studies that indicate that being transgender directly relates to harm and violence.

Cite your studies that indicate that having autogynephilia directly relates to harm and violence.

CIte your studies that indicate that Blanchard's taxonomy is valid and the research that has been done to support that.

(Going to be kind of difficult, as Blanchard HIMSELF has rephrased his earlier work and has stated that far more research is needed than the surveys he took 20 years ago ... but I look forward to your presentation.)