Did Jesus Ever Really Intend For "Christianity"?

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

I don't believe any of it. The Bible doesn't prove the Bible to be true. At any rate, Jesus Christ didn't fulfill the Old Testament prophecies for their coming Messiah.

You seemed to drive right past the audience and context.

The Sermon on the Mount? Are you trying to tell me that Christians don't believe those words were for them? Why pay attention to anything he supposedly said?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

"My point has been the same as it has been all along, that it is possible the biblical character Jesus was based (very loosely) on a real person, just like Pilate was. "

Ok I have asked you this before.

Jesus existed.
Litte Kimmie Boy existed.
Hitler existed.


What does it mean?

A child can understand the question.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

What does it mean?

What does "Jesus existed" mean? It means exactly what it says.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

What does "Jesus existed" mean? It means exactly what it says.

Ok what does it mean to you?

a reply to: windword

They will twist scripture to convince you that Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the old testament messiah. However you are correct and they were not fulfilled as they were written.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: windword

Except that there are no corroborating texts, outside of the Bible, that suggest Jesus of Nazareth existed. Even the existence of a 1st century Nazareth is sketchy.

There are texts outside of the Bible that prove the existence of John the Baptist and Pilate, but not for Jesus.

I agree with you and I'm not doubting that. I suppose I don't have enough faith in the early founders of Christianity to believe they had the foresight to devise a character named Jesus out of thin air.

They didn't have to. It's in the Old Testament.

Zechariah 3

For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua (Jesus is Greek for Joshua); upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.

a reply to: windword

So you use something you don't believe in to disprove something you don't believe in.
You're only showing that you don't understand what you don't believe.


Good luck.

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

Thanks for the warning. I have taken into account those other religions and continue to do so. I do not rely upon the bible for information. What I have done is read it and evaluate it as possibilities. I do not even know if there WAS a Jesus as history now tells us. I take all discussion about Jesus strictly on an IF basis. But again, thanks for the warning.

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

Hey, you asked for proof that Jesus' and Paul's teachings were different. I obliged you.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Yes I've read The Bible.

First as a skeptic then as a believer.

The more I read the more clear it became.

I don't see the contradiction I once did nor do I see the contradiction you seem to.

Respectfully.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

Hey, you asked for proof that Jesus' and Paul's teachings were different. I obliged you.

And you've failed to provide it.

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

I pointed it out as clear as day. I read it first as a believer and now as an atheist and I see the historical and scientific inaccuracies all over the place.

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

You failed to rebut my argument.

Again, Jesus forgave people and told people that they could be forgiven by God, by forgiving others. Paul said that Jesus died for your sins.

Two very different teachings.

a reply to: Joecanada11

I think you are twisted Joe...
Like an athiest can speak on behalf of prophesy and the validity of its fulfillment...
I don't think atheist is an accurate depiction of you though for you have a belief and it is obviously anti Christ...

Here's 44 fullfilled but I believe there were over 300 prophesies fullfilled...

44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled
Prophecies About Jesus Old Testament
Scripture New Testament
Fulfillment
1 Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4
2 Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-6
3 Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31
4 Messiah would come from the line of Abraham. Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5
5 Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34
6 Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Numbers 24:17 Matthew 1:2
7 Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:14
8 Messiah would be heir to King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7 Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3
9 Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44 Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-12
10 Messiah would be called Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
11 Messiah would spend a season in Egypt. Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:14-15
12 A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace. Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16-18
13 A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah Isaiah 40:3-5 Luke 3:3-6
14 Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3 John 1:11
John 7:5
15 Messiah would be a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:15 Acts 3:20-22
16 Messiah would be preceded by Elijah. Malachi 4:5-6 Matthew 11:13-14
17 Messiah would be declared the Son of God. Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:16-17
18 Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Isaiah 11:1 Matthew 2:23
19 Messiah would bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:13-16
20 Messiah would speak in parables. Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:10-15, 34-35
21 Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted. Isaiah 61:1-2 Luke 4:18-19
22 Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6
23 Messiah would be called King. Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-11
24 Messiah would be praised by little children. Psalm 8:2 Matthew 21:16
25 Messiah would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13 Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-16
26 Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13 Matthew 27:9-10
27 Messiah would be falsely accused. Psalm 35:11 Mark 14:57-58
28 Messiah would be silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7 Mark 15:4-5
29 Messiah would be spat upon and struck. Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67
30 Messiah would be hated without cause. Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4 John 15:24-25
31 Messiah would be crucified with criminals. Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-28
32 Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-30
33 Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10 John 20:25-27
34 Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed. Psalm 22:7-8 Luke 23:35
35 Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments. Psalm 22:18 Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-36
36 Messiah's bones would not be broken. Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20 John 19:33-36
37 Messiah would be forsaken by God. Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
38 Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34
39 Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side. Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34
40 Messiah would be buried with the rich. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-60
41 Messiah would resurrect from the dead. Psalm 16:10
Psalm 49:15 Matthew 28:2-7
Acts 2:22-32
42 Messiah would ascend to heaven. Psalm 24:7-10 Mark 16:19
Luke 24:51
43 Messiah would be seated at God's right hand. Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1 Mark 16:19
Matthew 22:44
44 Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8
christianity.about.com...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Why are you acting like ketuko?

a reply to: solongandgoodnight

All that was supposedly said from may have been symbolic. Nothing of value will just be left out in the open. God had an influence on the planet and we came to be. Of course he played in nature's hair. (Wind blowing through trees.)
Perhaps the New testament is the life of a spirit, in (spiritual nature). All before it are different battles of the flesh. Stories I might add.

Just me synopsis and opinion.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I could, but I won't, go through your list and debunk every single one of those arguments.

But this one is priceless!

Messiah would be born of a woman

Why don't the Jews believe Jesus to be the Messiah? Because he didn't do anything that the Messiah was supposed to have done, that's why!

Why Jesus could not be the Messiah of the Old Testament

2 Samuel 7
He shall build an house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever. 14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men: 15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee. 16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

So, when did that happen?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer
Hey, you asked for proof that Jesus' and Paul's teachings were different. I obliged you.

They were totally different. Paul's agenda was to INVENT Christianity; a warped idea of a new faith system he could gain power by capitalizing upon. Christianity was a movement; (better living conditions, fairness/human decency); Paul turned it into a religious force; 'belief system' money maker.
Oh that other thing (most important); "The Kingdom of Heaven": one can achieve all by oneself without a Paul or religious orators faking a dogma you must BUY/tithe your way into.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I'm anti Christ because I don't believe in God or the devil or any diety? Sure that's a typical Christian response.

Just because I can read stories and reasonably deduce their logical faults means I don't understand?

First off you state the messiah is born of a woman. Wow everyone is born of a woman.

Third point he is born of a virgin but the orginal translation is young woman not virgin. The virgin birth was only recorded in two gospels.

Lastly none of what you wrote can be considered historically accurate since nothing was written about Jesus until years after his death. That means that anyone who wrote the gospels could arbritarily make things up and nobody actually wrote events as they happened. The virgin birth was only recorded in two of the four gospels.

As to the lineage of Jesus we have been over this and only his father's lineage is recorded but it also has contradictions among the scriptures. Also if he was born a virgin his father's lineage means absolutely nothing because he didn't reviebe his dna. You will bring up his mother's lineage but it is not biblical at all. More after the fact covering up the tracks of the lies in the bible.

Also point number 40 you said the messiah would be buried with the rich. I thought he would be resurrected? He was also never buried.

I could go on and on but it's not worth it because you believe a story based on faith. I require actual evidence and facts to believe and there isn't any evidence of this. All stories and all the gospels contradict each other.

a reply to: windword

More prophesy says that before the return of Jesus to fulfill the rest of prophecy concerning Jesus and the jews to answer your silly question...
The third temple must be built and that Jewish people must come to accept Jesus as the Messiah...

To say prophecy was not fullfilled is an untruth...
There are numerous prophesies not one...

There are more to be fullfilled but only the individual who has fullfilled the previous prophesies can fullfilled them...

And prophesies have revealed this he had to die and a send to heaven and will return again to fullfilled the rest those are all prophesies...

And they all are to be fullfilled in order...