Did Jesus Ever Really Intend For "Christianity"?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: windword
More prophesy says that before the return of Jesus to fulfill the rest of prophecy concerning Jesus and the jews to answer your silly question... The third temple must be built and that Jewish people must come to accept Jesus as the Messiah...

What prophesy has EVER been full filled? This should be your first clue as to understanding the idea of prophesy = a riddle with no answer/conclusion.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

More prophesy says that before the return of Jesus to fulfill the rest of prophecy concerning Jesus

Yeah right. LOL

Messiahs are people, not gods. Saul was a Messiah, David was a Messiah, and Cyrus the Great was a Messiah. Jesus, not so much!

In the Spetaugint, these Messiahs are referred to as "Christs".

a reply to: windword

Those mentioned are the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible are they?

That's rather stupid...

a reply to: Joecanada11

He was buried in the family tomb of his rich uncle...
Because he was was laid to rest in the tomb he was buried there... That is not a reference to covering someone up with dirt...

And you are not an athiest because you have a belief Jesus is not real and your agenda combined with that clearly portrays you as being anti Christ...

If you would like to be considered an athiest you should shut up...For to be one you would have no opinion...

a reply to: windword

No I didn't, I didn't even attempt to rebut it.

You really haven't even made an argument to rebut. You've only picked a few lines of scripture that seem contradictory and put them forward.

Question;
If Paul was teaching heresy why are there no accounts of condemnation from the contemporaries of Jesus or James His brother? They knew Paul. Knew what He was teaching. It would seem to me if one was twisting truth into their own interpretation of it and passing it off as Christs then those who knew Jesus might have something to say about it. There are no documents from that period of time to that effect.

Might it be possible that your understanding of the message of Jesus, that was then carried out into the gentile world through Paul, might be thing in error and not the message itself? Is that possible?

This seems fruitless to me. Trite answers and seemingly 'gotcha' one liners. That's boring.

I wish you well.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: windword
Those mentioned are the promised deliverer of the Jewish nation prophesied in the Hebrew Bible are they?
That's rather stupid...

Does it matter? No one has arrived to deliver deliverance (from what exactly). Moses and Abraham have not appeared in 3000 years to provide updated modern footnotes to the Old Testament.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

The Old Testament tells a story of the Israelites telling God they want a king and a kingdom. God warns them that asking for a "man" to rule over them was not the best idea. They didn't care. They wanted a Messiah, so God sent them a few. They're still waiting for that one special KING and his eternal Kingdom, on THIS earth, against God's warning about men leading men.

Jesus was never a king and never claimed or promised a kingdom on earth.

By the way, there is no mention of Jesus in the Garden of Eden story. There is no Bible story of Jesus stomping on a snake's head.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

It might very much matter one day.

It is the same old thing: If the atheist is right, then oh well, we're all dead and it's over. What does it matter what I believed and the atheist didn't? If *I* happen to be right though, whether that comes in the form of the very dramatic fulfillment of the 2nd Advent or simply a personal judgment after our own personal deaths ... well, then I'm right, and what you will make of it is what you will make of it, but I have hope of something very much better than this.

Either way, I cannot see that it hurts anything and I prefer hope.

a reply to: TheOnlyAnswer

You really haven't even made an argument to rebut. You've only picked a few lines of scripture that seem contradictory and put them forward.

No, I haven't really tried very hard. This thread isn't really about Paul, but there are plenty of threads that are. It's been done, but I don't really feel like taking this thread in that direction.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: ketsuko

Jesus warned of false prophets like Paul.

Thats why "They" whacked Him and pinned it on the World's first "Lee Harvey" Judas Iscariot.

Verse 2 of "Redemption Song" from Bob Marley


[Verse 2]
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds!
Have no fear for atomic energy
Cause none of them can stop the time
How long shall they kill our prophets
While we stand aside and look?
Some say it's just a part of it
We've got to fulfill the book

The song in it's entirety:www.youtube.com...

Ok since you believe.

I've seen Jesus in my vision last night. He told me such and such.

Do you believe me? Oh wait Joesph Smith said it before. Wait he's contradicting Paul's words. Wait. Oh never mind.

Go ahead and believe Paul's words.

a reply to: windword

If you crush someone's head what do you think happens to that person?
Do you suppose they die?
When Jesus returns Satan will be put to death...
Jesus enters the seen before the Garden of eden as the Word aka God for the Word was with God and the Word was God and later the Word was made flesh...
Why should God have to be refered to by his human name? He was mentioned in the garden though when the name God was used silly...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

the Word was with God and the Word was God and later the Word was made flesh

Not according the Old Testament, and not according Jewish Tradition, according to someone who wrote the Book of John. The New Testament doesn't prove the New Testament is true.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: vethumanbeing

ketsudo: It might very much matter one day.
It is the same old thing: If the atheist is right, then oh well, we're all dead and it's over.

Those within this belief have chosen nihilism; total rejection of laws and institutions. As you say for them it is over; no hope.

ketsudo: What does it matter what I believed and the atheist didn't? If *I* happen to be right though, whether that comes in the form of the very dramatic fulfillment of the 2nd Advent or simply a personal judgment after our own personal deaths ... well, then I'm right, and what you will make of it is what you will make of it, but I have hope of something very much better than this. Either way, I cannot see that it hurts anything and I prefer hope.

It matters nothing to a nihilist; as they do not care specifically about themselves at all, certainly NOT you. Atheists have no faith in themselves to understand their possible relationship with a potential creator being. They cannot at the same time say for certainty they created themselves or were created by accident. This is a strange psychological place to be inhabiting; if having to attempt or quantify ones very reason for existing to ONESELF. They demonstrate extreme acting/striking out against those that actually have hope or a faith that resonates the positive. Its called maintaining the profitability of the paradigm (it must continue) otherwise no point in existing.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

Since we never actually got around much to discussing Paul's words much and spent massive amounts of time on that passage in John ...

But go ahead and believe what you will believe. The Quran is correct that there is no compulsion in faith. A person cannot be forced to believe. At best, you can be forced to pretend.

And since I don't think anyone was proselytizing you, go about your business, sir. I wish you much luck with your Joseph Smith. I hope it brings you whatever it is you've been seeking in life.

a reply to: solongandgoodnight


I would say, yes he did intend to start something new.

Jesus had no problem with people having a religion.

He didn't like how it was corrupted.

Remember the money changers and other bozo's at the temple?

Jesus released the jews from the 1st covenant and brought the new covenant. Which started christianity.

He also knocked people off their high holier than thou horses.

originally posted by: burgerbuddy
a reply to: solongandgoodnight

I would say, yes he did intend to start something new.
Jesus had no problem with people having a religion.
He didn't like how it was corrupted.
Remember the money changers and other bozo's at the temple?
Jesus released the jews from the 1st covenant and brought the new covenant. Which started christianity.
He also knocked people off their high holier than thou horses.

Jesus; (not the miracle virgin birth prophet savior son/man of God for all mankind past present and future) had no interest in 'starting Christianity' that was a Paul consortium invented; now known as the Catholic Church.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I do not have to SHUT UP. As you say to be an atheist. I am welcome to have any opinion I want. I don't believe in any god and I won't unless there's proof. So far there isn't any.

I wasted years of my life praying to to a god who doesn't exist and I would like to save people from wasting their life believing in myths and fairy tales as well.

I'm sorry it bothers you so much that I'm not gullible enough to believe that anyone was born of a virgin. It bothers you that I don't believe in walking on water or the flood fable or tales of a ressurection. Actually I'm not sorry. If it bothers you that's your problem. I will continue to point out the contradictions and scientific impossibilities because I value the truth.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

You do realize that if Jesus actually fulfilled the prophecies as stated in the original texts that there wouldn't be Jews who are still waiting for the messiah. Yet most Jews do not believe he fulfilled the prophecies.

Torah says that no one can die for another’s sins

they do not accept the virgin birth doctrine

they do not accept the “trinity” concept. It violates the Shema, the oneness of God

they never saw peace and deliverance in Israel due to the presence of Jesus

many do not trust Christians, after centuries of betrayal and persecution by them.

heavenawaits.wordpress.com...…unfulfilled-prophesies/

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: 5StarOracle
I don't believe in any god and I won't unless there's proof. So far there isn't any.

You existing alone is proof enough a Creator being exists (as is Its divine progeny). You are Gods expression as a human holding an individualized soul/eternal spirit.