Proof that the Bible was not written by mankind!

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: chr0naut

and threads on ATS are NOT full of errors, contradictions and pseudo-history?

Plenty. It's up to the reader to research the information.

We don't really have many archaeological finds relating to Abraham and the Exodus. Many once said that there was none, but as time has passed, supporting archaeology has come to light.

What we do have points to myths, legends, and an embellished history.

A single scroll was not allowed to be touched by human hands and special implements were made to assist in reading the scrolls. This gave each scroll a usable life of 800 years. The transcription process of creating copies of the master scrolls were also highly systematic and accurate. Books of tables were kept that showed word and letter counts. Also, positional placings of significant letters and words are included. The result is that we can be assured that the Hebrew scrolls did not change significantly over time. The most ancient copies of the manuscripts that we have are in extremely close agreement with the more modern Hebrew translations (i.e: the Masoretic), showing that the copying and verification processes did actually work and gives confidence that the sources for the Bible have not changed significantly over time.

The same care and discipline could have gone into preserving any ancient text. That doesn't mean the preserved text is truthful or an accurate account.

As for "miracles that never happened", where is the proof for that statement?

Where is the proof for the biblical miracles? If you think the bible is proof, then Homer was no doubt telling the truth about the Cyclops and Sirens. Yet neither the biblical miracles, nor Homer's imagination have any evidence for their existence but a book that says those things happened. The onus is on those who say they did.

There also is no hard evidence for the big bang singularity or universal inflation. We take them on faith because we can see theoretical links to stuff we can measure (like the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation).

Some things we have to use our brains and our hearts to decide.

I know that the Jesus described in the Bible has changed me. I know this, not just from the Bible, but also I can see evidence in myself and others who are changed too. I have a new morality advising me not to do wrong things even if those things don't affect anyone else. I have an ethical sense that goes beyond what I personally want and can reason.

I also have had several experiences of the presence of God's Spirit. Something separate from me that has the power to overwhelm me, but rarely does. Something that cares and loves, and in those times all of nature seems to be praising and attesting to.

In those times when I have sensed the Presence of the Holy Spirit, I have been witness to things that are miraculous. I have seen rain absolutely bucket down from a clear starry sky and put out a house fire. I have seen numerous healings. A friend who's back was broken in a car accident and who had no feeling in his body below the mid chest (I watched the doctor stick a sharp of a rather large syringe into him up and down his body to establish that there was no feeling) is now walking with zero signs that he had been injured. My own son who last year had Ewings Sarcoma and was told he would likely die because the cancer was aggressive, large and he was too old for a good prognosis, is now cancer free. Other, younger sufferers that he had gotten to know and who had much better prognoses, have, sadly, since passed.

That same Holy Spirit that I feel also motivates me to read and re-read the Bible, and also tells me that it is the word of God. Every time I read it, it speaks to me differently in ways that I hardly ever expect and yet is specific to my circumstances (especially the words of Jesus, which have so many levels of meaning). Why would I otherwise be motivated to re-read some dusty old book I have already read?

So my take on the OP is that this is yet another indicator of something beyond physics and humanity.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: chr0naut

Numerology is a man-made system, gravity is not. There's a huge difference between Newton explaining gravity and men writing numerology into the bible.

Numerology didn't exist until we created it, gravity did exist before we could explain it.

Yes, but we are talking about gematria, not numerology. Numerology, in this setting, is a red-herring.

a reply to: chr0naut

You do realize that gematria is a form of numerology don't you? And even if it were not (which it is) then gematria is still a man-made system either way you look at it.

A man-made system being present in a book written by men is not proof that God wrote the bible.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: chr0naut

You do realize that gematria is a form of numerology don't you? And even if it were not (which it is) then gematria is still a man-made system either way you look at it.

A man-made system being present in a book written by men is not proof that God wrote the bible.

I agree it is not proof that God wrote the Bible but what constitutes proof? I mean, even our senses are a poor indicator of our immediate environment. There are so many optical and other sensory illusions, obviously, they lie and we blindly accept them as truth.

Gematria is the study of encoding. Numerology assigns magical meaning to numbers, I would argue that Gematria used in the OP, simply observes the occurrence of the number 7 and does not apply meaning to it.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: chr0naut

You do realize that gematria is a form of numerology don't you? And even if it were not (which it is) then gematria is still a man-made system either way you look at it.

A man-made system being present in a book written by men is not proof that God wrote the bible.

Is mathematics man-made? Did it exist prior to humans?

In one sense, it did, the rules of the universe appear to be mathematical.

But in the other sense, mathematics as a system, is man made.

a reply to: chr0naut

The OP was about more than just gematria, it was also about the number of women mentioned, the number of names mentioned, etc. Those have nothing to do with gematria but numerology in general, though gematria is still a subset of numerology. And yes, he was applying meaning to the numerology, read the title of the thread for the meaning he was drawing out of it.

Mathematics did not exist before humans, mathematics is only a system created by humans in order to explain the world around us, it does not exist outside of our minds. Animals do not use math yet they see the same world we do.

A jumbled set of letters could be written down on a piece of paper that have no meaning but someone could come along and apply meaning to those jumbled letters if they really wanted to. Math is the same concept, we applied meaning (math) to a jumbled set of letters (world).

a reply to: jimmyriddler

Numerology does NOT constitute proof. It is also a form of divination, which I beleive is frowned upon viz Deuteronomy 18:10, First Samuel 15:10, 2 Kings 17:17, Jeremiah 14:14 etc



Thus that is naughty, according to the book he was trying to prove something with.

So yeah, nah, it is written by man.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oh yes, and proving the bible, by breaking the rules of God (divination naughty)

a reply to: chr0naut
Starred.

There also is no hard evidence for the big bang singularity or universal inflation. We take them on faith because we can see theoretical links to stuff we can measure (like the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation).

Agreed.

Some things we have to use our brains and our hearts to decide.

Also agreed.

I appreciate your candor and honesty in the body of your post.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: chr0naut
Starred.

There also is no hard evidence for the big bang singularity or universal inflation. We take them on faith because we can see theoretical links to stuff we can measure (like the Cosmic Microwave Background radiation).

Agreed.

Some things we have to use our brains and our hearts to decide.

Also agreed.

I appreciate your candor and honesty in the body of your post.

Thank you.

At some stage, we have to invoke faith. To some, it is enough, to others, not.

It really isn't enough for me, I think that is why God keeps shaking up my logical, rational world all the time and asking "do you trust me"? So I am forced to re-evaluate my faith.

And science is always challenging my faith too, sometimes successfully but most times, not.

but we know that men edited the bible men cherry picked what writings would be included and many writings were left out.Is it so hard to believe that the men who edited the bible had an agenda and only including the writings that supported their agenda?

originally posted by: Tardacus
but we know that men edited the bible men cherry picked what writings would be included and many writings were left out.Is it so hard to believe that the men who edited the bible had an agenda and only including the writings that supported their agenda?

Over and over again we get the flat statement "we know that men edited the Bible".

When, how and who?

Surely you realize that it is one of the most read and cherished books ever.

Even the punctuation of different translations get nit-picked at by scholars, yet you flat out make a claim that it was edited, which implies that no-one through history ever noticed.

So, prove it.

a reply to: jimmyriddler

not proof

a reply to: jimmyriddler

The only real proof that god exists is if he ever decides to pay this planet another visit. From what I've read in his book, it will not be a "how's it going" type of visit. That is some supreme being type of god we have. Sends his kid 2,000+ years ago to contradict a number of points his dad said in the first version of the book. I can't think of a better way to establish credibility as being the son of god. Nice of his kid to finish off the new version of the book by throwing in the doom & gloom of our existence, thanks! Thanks also for that whole free will thing, you really know how to accept responsibility for what you have created. Free will, sounds like a bit of a disclaimer to me from a god who is just not all that interested in whatever happens. But he loves us!!!!

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: chr0naut
So, if a mind greater than any human mind directed the writing of the Bible, the set of possible authors is small. Why not then attribute it to the ultimate mind - God (as revealed in the Bible)? I can think of no other apt candidate.

-notes all nations since the historic starting of the bible that accepted biblical leadership has become war torn, murderous, crusading blood nations-
...
I can think of another candidate actually...

Name a nation which has not "become war torn, murderous, crusading blood" nation?

Name a nation which is ruled by God?

Theoretically Israel, right?
Anyhow, deity narrated book...book used as backbone of civilization...civilization falls into war, hate, persecution, etc.

Hypothesis..Satan wrote the bible. judge the tree by the fruit it bears. I judge the bible rotten.
..
personal view.

a reply to: jimmyriddler

THANKS! I've wanted to post this for some time but obviously didn't get around to it. I love Dr Chuck Missler. He has really done his homework. And his professional career in INFORMATION SCIENCE in the military and in corporations leaves him well trained for a lot of the topics he discusses--like this one.

I don't recall if it's in this video or another--he challenges the listener or anyone to create a significant body of prose with such precision.

I'm skeptical that any--well--more than a very few--of your respondents will have watched the whole video. Of those, I wonder how many really think through the implications of what he's saying.

I think most will just respond to you out of their RELIGION OF SCIENTISM emotional biases born largely out of their determination to do their own thing REGARDLESS of anything else and everyone else.

a reply to: Noinden

Perhaps a brush-up on the terms would do you good.

Numerology is using numbers to purportedly PREDICT or DISCOVER by occult 'supernatural' means stuff not knowable any other way.

That is NOT what Dr Missler is doing by a long shot.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Perhaps you could watch the video and comment in a more meaningful way.

1. Dr Missler is not using numerology.

2. He is observing inherent facts about God's favorite number in God's book.

Your allegation is clearly barking up the wrong tree.

a reply to: jimmyriddler

Heh, Chuck Missler.....

a reply to: jimmyx

I don't usually see more than a very few critical thinkers on these threads. And they all seem to be on the Biblical side.

I'll keep looking, though. One may wander through eventually.

I sure haven't seen any perceptive, knowledgeable, thoughtful, astute, scientific commentary on Dr Missler's presentation--except from the Biblical side.