HB2, North Carolina mandate to hate homosexuals.

I know im late to the party but are you suggesting legislation forcing businesses to accommodate certain small groups will make them go under?

How many businesses were forcced to close due to the requirements in the ADA? That concerns more than just bathrooms.

And I will say what I always say on that topic. If you cant afford to adapt and make changes to stay in business, your probably not doing well and are about to go under anyway.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: Rocker2013

You're forgetting that the GOP is obsessed with pedophiles in dresses. Given the recent news about Hastert they are once again 20 years out of date and looking in the wrong places.

You know what really fascinates me about all of this? The repeated suggestion that having a transgender person going into a rest room results in crime. It's utterly bizarre, but these people seem to think that a transgender person using a rest room is somehow giving that person permission to commit a crime.

Sexual assault is already a crime. Spying on someone in such a place is already a crime. The fact that they automatically imagine people in rest rooms spy on each other says more about them and the sexual crimes they think are "normal" in rest rooms than it does about anyone else.

These right-wing Republican men seem to think it's "normal" that people would perv over other people in these places, they seem to think it's common that people gawp at others or imagine sexually assaulting them.

If anyone needs to be treated as a "threat" in this scenario, it's the Republican men in NC government who seem to think rest rooms are places for sexual crimes.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Good, you have at least tried to show your point. But you are adding things that just aren't there.

Disconnect for one second, from your position, and think about how many people identify with being transgender to the point of not being able to use the bathroom their biological gender dictates. This bill does not allow for that tiny group to have a separate voice, but then again, there is no provision for overweight middle aged men who enjoy drinking beer in public parks. There is a law against alcohol in parks and I just have to deal with that.

Should the laws all be changed to include a special section for this micro minority? If so, how far do we take it?

And please understand, I am not trying to belittle you or pick on your life choices, I am just stating my opinion and trying to justify why I have it. You seem to very antagonistic about this. Wed are all family here, relax a bit.

a reply to: network dude

A fat guy in a park drinking a beer and someone who 'chooses' to identify are the same thing? No. I have no issue if you have gender reassignment. This is something that is biological and they were not who they should be. It happens more than most know.

This is just wrong. There are sick people out there and it is giving them an opening. The government has stopped looking at the impact of all and makes decisions based on the single voice to shut them up.

If you want to be the same, STOP pointing out the differences...

originally posted by: Rocker2013

This all comes down to one ignorant group of religious nutters wanting to control society to suit their warped views, nothing more and nothing less.

LOL, the fact that you say this, but can't see my point of view is scary.

I see it as one, very, very small group of people who not only want more attention then everyone else, they DEMAND to be treated differently, and have their lifestyle accepted by everyone.

I am a pretty liberal conservative. I don't like organized religion and while I consider myself a Christian, I am not all about hating anyone, or even limiting your entitlements. I just want everyone to be happy. Can you truly say that is the goal of this subset of the LGBT community? To just let everyone be happy?

originally posted by: network dude
Good, you have at least tried to show your point. But you are adding things that just aren't there.

Man, you are infuriating. It's all right there for you to read for yourself, and you are still pretending it's just not there!
This is bizarre, really it's so utterly bizarre I don't know what to say.

originally posted by: network dude
Disconnect for one second, from your position, and think about how many people identify with being transgender to the point of not being able to use the bathroom their biological gender dictates. This bill does not allow for that tiny group to have a separate voice, but then again, there is no provision for overweight middle aged men who enjoy drinking beer in public parks. There is a law against alcohol in parks and I just have to deal with that.

The fact that you would equate someone drinking with the actual physical being of another Human is stunning.
Do you also compare black Americans and the rights they should have to, I don't know, stamp collectors?

originally posted by: network dude
And please understand, I am not trying to belittle you or pick on your life choices, I am just stating my opinion and trying to justify why I have it. You seem to very antagonistic about this. Wed are all family here, relax a bit.

Choices? *facepalm*

I'm antagonistic because you're an ignorant person, and I loathe ignorance.

Once again, you've entirely ignored the points of this discussion in an attempt to carry on denying it's happening, and you once again entirely ignore the vast implications of this law on all citizens of NC, specifically LGBT citizens.

I'm done trying to debate with you. You've been shown to be either a deluded fool, a troll, or a liar, and there is no more to be said.

originally posted by: matafuchs


If you want to be the same, STOP pointing out the differences...

Yes. this.

I tried to make a point earlier that this group may want their own bathrooms, drinking fountains and seating in the back of the bus. Rosa Parks might even chuckle at that one.

a reply to: Rocker2013

well, I could have done without the name calling, but if you can't articulate your point any better without all that, I suppose you should be moving along.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, I could have done without the name calling, but if you can't articulate your point any better without all that, I suppose you should be moving along.

Have you even tried reading the link I provided, or are you going to ignore the perspective of someone whose life this stunningly silly piece of legislation (that has done nothing but damage your own State) actually impacts?
Or are you going to claim that they're such a tiny minority that their opinion does not matter?

originally posted by: TexasSeabee
I know im late to the party but are you suggesting legislation forcing businesses to accommodate certain small groups will make them go under?

How many businesses were forcced to close due to the requirements in the ADA? That concerns more than just bathrooms.

And I will say what I always say on that topic. If you cant afford to adapt and make changes to stay in business, your probably not doing well and are about to go under anyway.

If the law was passed and upheld, the next step was to mandate gender neutral bathrooms. At least that was the main discussion in the news here.

Now, if you are independently wealthy, you likely have 30 grand sitting in your sock drawer and wouldn't bat an eye building a new bathroom for your patrons. But some people live their business lives a bit closer to the profit line. If all those who didn't have the surplus you seem to think should exist, closed their doors, you'd be left with Walmart and the big chain stores. Reality is a bit too real for your scenario.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, I could have done without the name calling, but if you can't articulate your point any better without all that, I suppose you should be moving along.

Have you even tried reading the link I provided, or are you going to ignore the perspective of someone whose life this stunningly silly piece of legislation (that has done nothing but damage your own State) actually impacts?
Or are you going to claim that they're such a tiny minority that their opinion does not matter?

I am sorry, I missed that while engaged in another conversation. I read the article and it goes right along with my thinking. This person, before HB2 and most importantly, before the Charlotte Law was enacted, somehow got by going the restroom of his/her choosing. I don't know, but perhaps when he/she was wearing a dress they went to the ladies room, and when they were in jeans and a t-shirt the went to the men's. I don't know. But what I do know is, somehow, they were able to get by, and relive themselves without exploding.

So, now that Charlotte had to introduce a bill making a big deal out of this very small deal, it became a huge point of contention.

If you read the article, he/she mentions that they willingly moved to Charlotte knowing it was the heart of the Bible belt. This kind of mentality where a tiny minority expects, no demands that others adapt to comfort them is where I see the problem. Change will happen, but here, it will happen a bit slower than other places. It's the culture that has been here for generations. If progressive constant change is what you want, there are places that work like that, why not move there?

I understand the mindset of the people here. They don't want people from the north moving down here and telling them how wrong they are doing everything. They are happy to invite you to eat at the Sunday Dinner, just don't bitch about the biscuits. (that's a wide generalization of how I see life here)

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, I could have done without the name calling, but if you can't articulate your point any better without all that, I suppose you should be moving along.

Have you even tried reading the link I provided, or are you going to ignore the perspective of someone whose life this stunningly silly piece of legislation (that has done nothing but damage your own State) actually impacts?
Or are you going to claim that they're such a tiny minority that their opinion does not matter?

I am sorry, I missed that while engaged in another conversation. I read the article and it goes right along with my thinking. This person, before HB2 and most importantly, before the Charlotte Law was enacted, somehow got by going the restroom of his/her choosing. I don't know, but perhaps when he/she was wearing a dress they went to the ladies room, and when they were in jeans and a t-shirt the went to the men's. I don't know. But what I do know is, somehow, they were able to get by, and relive themselves without exploding.

So, now that Charlotte had to introduce a bill making a big deal out of this very small deal, it became a huge point of contention.

If you read the article, he/she mentions that they willingly moved to Charlotte knowing it was the heart of the Bible belt. This kind of mentality where a tiny minority expects, no demands that others adapt to comfort them is where I see the problem. Change will happen, but here, it will happen a bit slower than other places. It's the culture that has been here for generations. If progressive constant change is what you want, there are places that work like that, why not move there?

I understand the mindset of the people here. They don't want people from the north moving down here and telling them how wrong they are doing everything. They are happy to invite you to eat at the Sunday Dinner, just don't bitch about the biscuits. (that's a wide generalization of how I see life here)

I can't remember the last time that I read a reply that showed so clearly that someone had read something and totally twisted it around in their head to the point that they thought it supported their position, and which made me angry to the point of now needing to walk my dog two miles in the mud to calm down. See you later people.
In other words you should be ashamed of yourself. Deeply ashamed.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

This is funny, you believe that your opinion is the only correct one, and all others should be (as you say) ashamed if they don't believe the same.

A true precious snowflake indeed.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Rocker2013

well, I could have done without the name calling, but if you can't articulate your point any better without all that, I suppose you should be moving along.

Have you even tried reading the link I provided, or are you going to ignore the perspective of someone whose life this stunningly silly piece of legislation (that has done nothing but damage your own State) actually impacts?
Or are you going to claim that they're such a tiny minority that their opinion does not matter?

I am sorry, I missed that while engaged in another conversation. I read the article and it goes right along with my thinking. This person, before HB2 and most importantly, before the Charlotte Law was enacted, somehow got by going the restroom of his/her choosing. I don't know, but perhaps when he/she was wearing a dress they went to the ladies room, and when they were in jeans and a t-shirt the went to the men's. I don't know. But what I do know is, somehow, they were able to get by, and relive themselves without exploding.

So, now that Charlotte had to introduce a bill making a big deal out of this very small deal, it became a huge point of contention.

If you read the article, he/she mentions that they willingly moved to Charlotte knowing it was the heart of the Bible belt. This kind of mentality where a tiny minority expects, no demands that others adapt to comfort them is where I see the problem. Change will happen, but here, it will happen a bit slower than other places. It's the culture that has been here for generations. If progressive constant change is what you want, there are places that work like that, why not move there?

I understand the mindset of the people here. They don't want people from the north moving down here and telling them how wrong they are doing everything. They are happy to invite you to eat at the Sunday Dinner, just don't bitch about the biscuits. (that's a wide generalization of how I see life here)

I'm more calm now, so can engage again. Let's start off with the fact that neither of us know the man - and that is how they view themselves and indeed how they dress and look - and we therefore cannot comment on his choices in life. However he moved there to teach and liked Charlotte as a place to live - a liberal place, so to speak.
Please note that I am using the word 'he'. Not 'person' or 'he/she'. He identifies as a man, he is transitioning into a man.
He started hormone therapy and guess what? It changed his appearance, to the point where it would look damn odd to keep using the women's toilet. Now, here's a point that perhaps I should stress. Men's restrooms use toilets and urinals. Pretty stupid for them not to. So therefore he started the using men's restroom because guess what, he looked and dressed like a man. So he did indeed get by, by using a toilet.
There is no mention whatsoever of expecting other people to conform to his thinking. No mention in it at all. I wonder where you got it from. He did however expect to be left alone to just go to the toilet without alarming people.
And because of HB2 he had to get cards printed up so that he could justify his presence in women's toilets without having women scream / call the police because there was a man there / or get punched out by a paranoid father/husband/boyfriend outside.
And yet you claim that you see nothing wrong whatsoever over the above, that the reaction to HB2 is a big fuss over nothing and that the fact that Charlie Comero's piece in fact supports your position.
Still flabberghasted that you cannot see the problem here.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

This is funny, you believe that your opinion is the only correct one, and all others should be (as you say) ashamed if they don't believe the same.

A true precious snowflake indeed.

That is not at all what I said and you know damn well. And 'precious snowflake'? Seriously? You feel that much contempt for these people?

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Good thing we have laws to protect us when we use the bathroom.

Bunch of snowflakes on the right behing fearfull of using bathrooms lol.

Same excuses different story.

Ummm no this is clearly about snowflakes on the left, being fearful of using bathrooms, and how that is being ended.

And the snowflake news and entertainers are boycotting because they are so dam afraid that it may snow some more.

On a slightly off topic note: I sincerely hope the terms, "snowflake," along with "SJW," "Mary Sue," "right wing nutters," "libtards," and others, very rapidly and decisively (rhetorically) die in a fire.

Peace.

originally posted by: AceWombat04
On a slightly off topic note: I sincerely hope the terms, "snowflake," along with "SJW," "Mary Sue," "right wing nutters," "libtards," and others, very rapidly and decisively (rhetorically) die in a fire.

Peace.

Me too.

Especially snowflake. It seems to some a snowflake is a Neanderthal who no longer wants to bludgeon someone with a club.

It's gotten really out of hand.

Ah! It was nice to sleep in and step back from this for a while. Read through the replies on my phone before getting out of bed and am now at my desk with a coffee that hasn't kicked in yet so the brain is just getting warmed up but I'm jumping back in anyway. I want to start with a reply with to this post because I'm not quite ready to jump into the pissing match this thread has become.

originally posted by: AceWombat04
Reading through this topic was profoundly depressing and frustrating.

I have said in nearly every thread I post in that I am here as an advocate for and ally to transgender youth and their families. If you want to get depressed and frustrated, try being that. Try having knowledge, empathy, insight and understanding into something that makes people's heads explode and see how much more depressing and frustrating it is trying to spread some awareness and understanding only to be met with willful ignorance, hostility, name calling and ideas and attitudes that are reprehensible in this day and age. I don't know why I do it? I don't know where I'm finding the tens of hours a week doing it? I think I do it because if I can help one out of twenty have a better understanding of all this and if it makes one transgender kid's life better or helps parents in their efforts to raise healthy children, that I'm doing some kind of good in the world and that's what motivates me.

For a site whose ostensible motto is "deny ignorance," I hope someone here sometime soon makes a thorough and well supported educational topic discussing the current and full status of gender identity knowledge both socially and scientifically/medically, because it's dramatically apparent many literally have no idea what being transgender even actually means given how some are still conflating sex with gender, and imagining trans individuals as simply "wearing different clothes and calling themselves X." Is that really how people view trans people?

I would create such a topic myself, but 1) my social anxiety precludes being responsible for such an effort in terms of sustaining, defending, and actively discussing it. It takes all I have even to make this post, for fear of some people's responses, knowing I cannot sustain or deal with protracted arguments even on the internet. Which makes me feel like a horrible coward given what I know many trans folks face in their lives. But I still hope someone does it. And 2) as a cisgender male I don't feel it's my place, and I don't want to get anything wrong despite good intentions.

That would be nice but it is never going to happen. I could create such a thread but with the lack of support here, it would go quickly down the drain regardless of how informative, eloquent, scientific or well mannered it was. I am not that much of a masochist either. Only bits and pieces are possible at best but if someone were to go through my posting history, a rather comprehensive view of things might be gained because I rarely post about anything else.

This is not to denigrate, attack, or shame those who don't understand (or, from their point of view, "agree with" trans persons,) and acknowledging ignorance should not be seen as a personal attack. Living on Earth guarantees one is ignorant of many things. Since there is more in the universe than any of us can ever know, we are all ignorant of something. That's just life. But when that ignorance is used to justify further burdening the lives of the already most fringe, disenfranchised, misunderstood members of our society... that hurts my head and heart.

As someone with a vested interest in all of this, who's family has been touched by it, it hurts my head and heart that much more and some days the caustic comments, baiting and outright trolling is a pain that is all too much. I can either roll over and let it slide and ignore the ignorance and sometimes hate or I can speak of what I know to help others learn. Some days deciding between the two is a difficult decision.

As with sexuality, what is being discussed is not "a choice," or a superficial matter. On the contrary, it is about something about as intrinsic and innate as any facet of being a human being can get. My two cents. Going to hide now. Reading every page of this topic was draining. Not attacking/angry at anyone. Just saying.

Don't hide. The voice and opinions of those that do have some understanding of this, which you obviously do, are few and far between. This subject raises very strong sentiment because it is so poorly understood and is not what people were raised to believe by those that also have no understanding. Changing minds and hearts or trying to bring accurate information about trans issues or the lives and feelings of these folks is not an easy task but it is the right thing to do.

originally posted by: gator2001

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: gator2001

Here in the Philippines, transgender are open about it and some areas even superstars (Google Vice Ganda, for one.) It is widely accepted. The word for a male acting like a girl here is "bayot."

A crossdresser is not a transgender.

A transgender is not a man acting like a girl.

Transgender is the brain telling her she is a girl in the wrong packaging.

It might help if you actually knew what you were talking about.

No, a bayot here is a gay man, not a straight man. They are not crossdressers. They either dress like women or they get a sex change. This would be transgender, no?

Gay is not transgender. Although transgender can be gay.

NO. Transgender is the brain telling you you are male or female - - and your physical body is the opposite. Surgery is never required. Surgery is a personal choice. Some choose it, some don't.

Apparently, in the Philippines they mix them all together. I can see why you're confused.

The below is an excerpt taken from an article on: Who are the trans people in the Philippines?

It seems like a good article, even though its from 2002.

In the Philippines, the Western terms "transgender" and "transsexual" are not frequently used. The local terms bakla, tomboy, and the Western terms gay and lesbian are the ones commonly used. The Tagalog term bakla is generally used by contemporary Filipino society to label men who show manifestations of femininity such as cross-dressing (including identifying as the opposite sex), and/or who erotically-romantically desire their same sex. It is also used to label those men who do things that are perceived by society as "unmanly/not-macho", including cowardice, or who fail to do things that are "manly / macho". On the other hand, tomboy, though not an original Tagalog term, is generally used to label women who show manifestations of masculinity (including identifying as the opposite sex), and/or who erotically-romantically desire their same sex. Also, the two terms have been considered by society-at-large to be synonymous with homosexual (bakla=gay, tomboy=lesbian). Bakla and tomboy are also popularly used in the Philippines to mean the "Third Sex". "Gender identity" and "sexual orientation/preference" are very much conflated in the bakla/tomboy dynamics. For an average person in the Philippines (including most people who are labeled as bakla and tomboy), to desire the same sex/gender may also mean the desire to be the opposite sex/gender and vice versa. That’s why transgenders and transsexuals are clustered together as either gay or lesbian by Philippine society – to the average person a transsexual is a gay man who has undergone a "sex transplant". Transsexual also has been popularly used also to refer to those who already had gone through the entire sex reassignment procedure.

www.transgenderasia.org...