Half of UK Muslims want homosexuality banned

originally posted by: thinline
I love watching when political correctness gives one a rock and hard place.

It's islomaphibic to call a Muslim homophobic.

So what do you do, what do you do? You cannot shot the hostage(guns are evil), so you ignore the whole issue

Interesting...who said it was?

murdoch press crusading against minorities?
well i never!

originally posted by: Misterlondon
I'm sure most of them do as it is part of their belief system.. Oh except in some Muslim countries it is OK to rape young boys.. But thats not homosexuality for some reason.
You will find similar statistics if you were to ask 1000 catholics.

Islam forbids sex with 'men'.

Bacha Bazi boys are not considered 'men' until they have pubic hair, so these savages consider it ok to rape them.

a reply to: andy06shake

Its just an expression i like to use, describing regions that are windy and/or sandy, us ourselves are also a monkey, pale and with little to no hair..

But not to worry, i am always laughing with them, not at them.

a reply to: auraofblack

I'm a white, heterosexual Englishman living in North East England.

I feel comfortable enough with the people who I've discussed this with to ask them open and frank questions.
All of them know me to varying degrees and I can only assume feel comfortable enough with me to give open and honest answers to these questions.
Like all conversations they were at least a two way thing and I gave my honest opinion on this and other topics.

By the way, I'm not homophobic at all. I'm very comfortable with my own sexuality and don't really give a toss about anyone else's.
What grown, consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes etc is really none of my business.

I acknowledge I don't know a hell of a lot of Muslims but I do try to keep abreast of things and have an open mind on most issues but on subjects like this I can only offer any sort of opinion based on my own personal experiences.
Any other opinion would be based on other people's testimonies.

I don't see many other people offering an opinion on how accurate they feel this survey was based on their own personal experiences.....I wonder why?

originally posted by: Freeborn

I don't see many other people offering an opinion on how accurate they feel this survey was based on their own personal experiences.....I wonder why?

The source has been shot to pieces several times over. I'm not going to comment on that side of it any further.

However, Muslims like Christianity has different sects that follow different interpretations of the Quran..

The majority of Sunni sect, especially so Wahhabi would be against homosexuality. Just like anyone fundamentalist Christian would be.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: crazyewok

Thats the point, do they think that way? 500 apparently say this, is 500 a fair number to scale up and aim at all Muslims?

Not where I come from.

Yes it is plenty to determine that around half of all Muslims want homosexuality banned, regardless of where you come from.

Its telling you what you want to believe, so you believe and defend it. Simple.

No it really isn't. I did not set the fundamental rules for maths and stats. They have been discovered over many thousands of years. I have just learned as much as I can - enough to be sure that the sample size is plenty. That is what is simple.

Read other posts if you want to understand whether other factors can skew the result, but I assure you sample size is not one of them.

originally posted by: markosity1973

originally posted by: Freeborn

I don't see many other people offering an opinion on how accurate they feel this survey was based on their own personal experiences.....I wonder why?

The source has been shot to pieces several times over. I'm not going to comment on that side of it any further.

However, Muslims like Christianity has different sects that follow different interpretations of the Quran..

The majority of Sunni sect, especially so Wahhabi would be against homosexuality. Just like anyone fundamentalist Christian would be.

The source has not been shot to pieces. The details of the survey have been posted and at least a couple of us are looking through that detail. There is nothing yet posted that dents the validity of the poll (not saying that won't be the case upon further inspection).

If you have been through the cross tabulations in the linked document provided and have some information that would highlight any flaws then it would be useful to see.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: crazyewok

Thats the point, do they think that way? 500 apparently say this, is 500 a fair number to scale up and aim at all Muslims?

Not where I come from.

Yes it is plenty to determine that around half of all Muslims want homosexuality banned, regardless of where you come from.

Its telling you what you want to believe, so you believe and defend it. Simple.

No it really isn't. I did not set the fundamental rules for maths and stats. They have been discovered over many thousands of years. I have just learned as much as I can - enough to be sure that the sample size is plenty. That is what is simple.

Read other posts if you want to understand whether other factors can skew the result, but I assure you sample size is not one of them.

Fair enough. I'm a man of science so I understand sample size. I just have a hard time believing the stat as we need to know where and who was questioned.

a reply to: markosity1973

The source has been shot to pieces several times over. I'm not going to comment on that side of it any further.

I've followed the thread from the start and read every post - I'm not stupid.

However, Muslims like Christianity has different sects that follow different interpretations of the Quran..

Yes, I know.

The majority of Sunni sect, especially so Wahhabi would be against homosexuality.

As Sunni's are by far the largest denomination of Muslim's then you are implying that most Muslim's would be against homosexuality?

That's basically what I said only just as a result of my own personal interactions with some Muslims.

Of course I could also say that I've read extensively about Islam, its schisms and various denominations and varying cultural attitudes within Islam etc but that would them mean my stated opinion was also based on second hand testament etc- but that wasn't the point I was making.

Just what is the point you are trying to make?

As for Wahhabi's - the source of much of todays problems between Islam and 'The West'.

Just like anyone fundamentalist Christian would be.

Yes, I know.....and Orthodox Jews etc.

I still don't get your point - you seem to be repeating what most of us already know.

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: crazyewok

Thats the point, do they think that way? 500 apparently say this, is 500 a fair number to scale up and aim at all Muslims?

Not where I come from.

Yes it is plenty to determine that around half of all Muslims want homosexuality banned, regardless of where you come from.

Its telling you what you want to believe, so you believe and defend it. Simple.

No it really isn't. I did not set the fundamental rules for maths and stats. They have been discovered over many thousands of years. I have just learned as much as I can - enough to be sure that the sample size is plenty. That is what is simple.

Read other posts if you want to understand whether other factors can skew the result, but I assure you sample size is not one of them.

Fair enough. I'm a man of science so I understand sample size. I just have a hard time believing the stat as we need to know where and who was questioned.

There are over 100 pages of detail linked in the thread.
The survey was carried out face to face, but cant see anything to identify where - or if it was limited to one place.
The detail gives you information on the types of people surveyed.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: crazyewok

Thats the point, do they think that way? 500 apparently say this, is 500 a fair number to scale up and aim at all Muslims?

Not where I come from.

Yes it is plenty to determine that around half of all Muslims want homosexuality banned, regardless of where you come from.

Its telling you what you want to believe, so you believe and defend it. Simple.

No it really isn't. I did not set the fundamental rules for maths and stats. They have been discovered over many thousands of years. I have just learned as much as I can - enough to be sure that the sample size is plenty. That is what is simple.

Read other posts if you want to understand whether other factors can skew the result, but I assure you sample size is not one of them.

Fair enough. I'm a man of science so I understand sample size. I just have a hard time believing the stat as we need to know where and who was questioned.

There are over 100 pages of detail linked in the thread.
The survey was carried out face to face, but cant see anything to identify where - or if it was limited to one place.
The detail gives you information on the types of people surveyed.

I worked once for a "statistics" organisation. (the DB part)
The boys on the field would ask like 20 people and the rest (800 or so surveys) were then filled by them, arbitrarily. They did not care much, they were getting paid and it was not possible to check everything they did on the field. No one cared about my objections either. That's when I concluded that most of "surveys" like this are BS.

Yes, the math behind the "sample" method does work, if done properly, in a large cross section of population --- but as I said, when that "large section of population" is actually 10 dudes filling sh*t up then the math isn't worth a rat's behind.

a reply to: Freeborn

Well if you want to specifically relate this back to the OP source claim that half of UK Muslims want homosexuality banned, then we need to know how many are Wahhabi - you can count on their support of the statement. Then there will be further support from some (not necessarily all) of the rest of them.

Whether that equates to 50% or not is moot.

But there are entire nations ie most of the middle east that are Islamic where homosexuality is banned, so the claim is not really a surprise.

originally posted by: sHuRuLuNi

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: auraofblack
a reply to: crazyewok

Thats the point, do they think that way? 500 apparently say this, is 500 a fair number to scale up and aim at all Muslims?

Not where I come from.

Yes it is plenty to determine that around half of all Muslims want homosexuality banned, regardless of where you come from.

Its telling you what you want to believe, so you believe and defend it. Simple.

No it really isn't. I did not set the fundamental rules for maths and stats. They have been discovered over many thousands of years. I have just learned as much as I can - enough to be sure that the sample size is plenty. That is what is simple.

Read other posts if you want to understand whether other factors can skew the result, but I assure you sample size is not one of them.

Fair enough. I'm a man of science so I understand sample size. I just have a hard time believing the stat as we need to know where and who was questioned.

There are over 100 pages of detail linked in the thread.
The survey was carried out face to face, but cant see anything to identify where - or if it was limited to one place.
The detail gives you information on the types of people surveyed.

I worked once for a "statistics" organisation. (the DB part)
The boys on the field would ask like 20 people and the rest (800 or so surveys) were then filled by them, arbitrarily. They did not care much, they were getting paid and it was not possible to check everything they did on the field. No one cared about my objections either. That's when I concluded that most of "surveys" like this are BS.

Yes, the math behind the "sample" method does work, if done properly, in a large cross section of population --- but as I said, when that "large section of population" is actually 10 dudes filling sh*t up then the math isn't worth a rat's behind.

What utter nonsense. Your experience of a dodgy company filling in surveys does not represent the research industry. To paint most surveys as BS based on an anecdote is utter madness. There are methods for spotting this kind of survey corruption. I have analysed literally hundreds of surveys - including polls taken over time and it's easy to spot poor data.

a reply to: markosity1973

Well if you want to specifically relate this back to the OP source claim that half of UK Muslims want homosexuality banned,....

Well, essentially that is what this thread is about.

And all I did was state that considering my own personal interactions with Muslims I wasn't surprised at the findings of the survey.

Pretty straight forward really, don't know what your issue is?

.... then we need to know how many are Wahhabi.....

If you want a real, in depth analysis of the data then yes you would like to know the denomination of all those surveyed, not just Wahhabi.

- you can count on their support of the statement.

Yes, I know.

Then there will be further support from some (not necessarily all) of the rest of them.

Yes, I know.

Whether that equates to 50% or not is moot.

Well surely that's one of the things this survey is trying to determine?

I'm sure when UKTruth and the others finish sifting through all the data they will tell us what they can.

But there are entire nations ie most of the middle east that are Islamic where homosexuality is banned, so the claim is not really a surprise.

Yes, I know.

So what point were you trying to make in response to my post because to be honest it did seem quite condescending in tone and we seem to be more or less in agreement? (Of course I understand that we can sometimes misconstrue tone and intent in these sort of circumstances.)

a reply to: UKTruth

In another life I was a Six Sigma Black Belt - I have more than a passing knowledge of statistics etc.

You've been on the ball so far, some people simply refuse to accept evidence and scientific methods and models if it doesn't quite fit with their pre-conceived ideas and opinions.

Good luck with analysing the data - my days of trawling through facts and figures, extrapolating trends and presenting findings with a reasonable level of certainty etc are well and truly over.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: auraofblack

I'm a white, heterosexual Englishman living in North East England.

I feel comfortable enough with the people who I've discussed this with to ask them open and frank questions.
All of them know me to varying degrees and I can only assume feel comfortable enough with me to give open and honest answers to these questions.
Like all conversations they were at least a two way thing and I gave my honest opinion on this and other topics.

By the way, I'm not homophobic at all. I'm very comfortable with my own sexuality and don't really give a toss about anyone else's.
What grown, consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes etc is really none of my business.

I acknowledge I don't know a hell of a lot of Muslims but I do try to keep abreast of things and have an open mind on most issues but on subjects like this I can only offer any sort of opinion based on my own personal experiences.
Any other opinion would be based on other people's testimonies.

I don't see many other people offering an opinion on how accurate they feel this survey was based on their own personal experiences.....I wonder why?

I respect that. I think the point that I have been trying to make (not very well) is that regardless of whether 50 percent of Muslims believe this or not, or any LGBT issues that arise from this article that this survey in my original OP was used in way only to manipulate us.

I don't doubt the science of statistics when we are measuring statistical info, but there are too many variables imo when it comes to people's opinions regarding this subject.

I feel that the scope of the sample size is too small and doesn't point where these polls where carried out. The other data posted is very interesting but isn't connected to the OP I think.

This subject is considered taboo within the Muslim community, I think it is fair to assume when dealing with taboo subjects that a certain amount of peer pressure will effect the result.

The OP has been written specifically to tag Muslims as being homophobic, when it could have been presented that 50 percent don't have an issue. This is a moot point though as the real point of Bs like this is to stop people accepting each other.

I do think that your answers could be shewed just because of your ethnic origin and the very real tension that is being drummed up by the media. Muslims through out this country are under pressure to conform with our belief systems and ideals(as they should be if they wish to live here) When someone like yourself asks a question like this to a Muslim surely you can try to see it from their point that it is a loaded question.?

its all a bit hypocritical seeing as half of ats believe there is a gay agenda and the evangelicals like ted cruz hold pretty much the same views as muslims, maybe even more extreme, from what ive seen of cruz and his evangelical cohorts and this is a man running for president of the USA

unfortunately uk muslims are just going to have to put up with it, because most uk citizens dont believe in islam and are on the whole secularists with little time for religion

People might want to check out the biggest search for gay porn by locality, oddly enough its highest in countries known to be Muslim / Radical...

Fancy that...

Men so sexually repressed the military have hundreds of hours of surveillance footage of Iraqi men having sexual relations with animals. I'm not saying the military were getting a kick out of it, just that it was an all too common scene.

Me thinks these people protesteth too much...

I like a cow like the next man but only to look at or eat...Hmmmmmmmm.....steak mmmmmmmmmmm

As for religion banning homosexuality, good lord that's the pot calling the kettle black. Just look at the numbers of so called religious folk found out as paedophiles, look how the religious system has hid them, helped them and kept them away from the Police and still offending. The same occurs in Islam and has done for as long as its been around, the power of control gets used for so many devices. Although Islam / Muslim has been linked via numerous cases of child sexual abuse with girls its also got an unhealthy score with young males, just search about Pakistan and the bus boys, its pretty sickening.