Birth Rape

a reply to: MOMof3

um.... what?

Im pro choice. I have nothing against abortion in the early stages of pregnancy.
I also think that at full term the baby has rights.

there is a big difference between a baby at full term, and some cells.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

You are confused. I think you need an unwanted epidural to the coconut.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

its late! I realised I read it wrong! I fixed it

its 3:22am

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Too late. The syringe is locked and loaded.


Come to Augie.

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

Honestly most of these doctors can only spend fifteen minutes with a patient. Private practice may be able to do better, but in many clinics and hospitals doctors may not have that much control over how the facility stacks patients in like veritable cordwood. You're right, it is NOT conducive to developing a patient/provider relationship.

Also, when a doctor says they won't do something because you won't let them examine you it may be because they are covering their hiney legally. If they address a thing without doing a proper exam and they get that wrong, then they can get sued. Also, in some cases, if they don't do such and such exam associated with such and such a thing then insurance (including Medicaid, Medicare and the ACA) may NOT cover it. Sometimes, these associations don't make a whole lot of medical sense. There may be times when you are asking your doctor to work for free and you don't know it and they can't take the time to explain it, or they are going to be ten minutes late for their next patient, that they are supposed to spend only 15 minutes with, but will spend 20, and so it goes all day. By the end of the day, their last patient is waiting an hour after clinic close and staff is staying late (which costs extra money) and the patients have become progressively angrier the later their exam is.

Also, many insurance companies, and government reimbursement will only cover LITERALLY a fraction of an exam, even if it is warranted. This is without taking into account the passive aggressive, sneaky and just plain nasty ways the government has of trying to get out of paying the bill. They don't like to. They spend tons of money on a system designed to facilitate not paying your medical bill as inefficiently as possible. Seriously. It's crazy. So many facilities, and even private practice are doing their job at a cut rate. At the end of the day, all the legal contradictions and constraints, coupled with the reimbursement goat rodeo makes it harder and harder for medical professionals to do their job, and sort of trains them out of compassion and empathy. This is exactly why many older healthcare professionals are seguing into other fields or even retiring early.

My point is that health care professionals are greatly inhibited due to time constraints that they often have little control over as well as the complex bureaucratic juggernaut that is currently defining much of health care. Your PTSD is valid and should be taken into consideration, but with the way the system is run, patients that don't fit the quick and easy get 'em in get 'em out mold fall through the cracks, sometimes in ways that are really disastrous. There is a conflict of interest and patients suffer the most no doubt, but health care professionals are frustrated as well. The way things are going this will only get worse. It's terrifying.

teh ` voices in my head ` whispered that this sounded suspiciously like a ` first world problem ` - so i started to read some of the claims

fook - now my head hurts

BUT - my conclusion is clear

these delusional muppets for the most part got EXACTLY what was coming to them , to whit :

treatment in a 21st century american hospital according to standard practices

you may disagree on what " standard practice " in a 1st world hospital is or should be

but thats another argument

the crux of this issues - is that if you dont want medical treatrment - dont go to hospital

simples

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Well this is about as ridiculous as it gets, "raped" by a internal fetal monitor??? Come on, really? It is simple health care for you and your soon to be born child, I was there for all three of my kids being born, traumatic maybe, rape no. PC BS at it's finest. What in the devil has gone so wrong with people that if they can't be a "victim" of something they are suddenly less of a person?

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: cfnyaami

Youre clueless if you think I said anywhere that women could not be raped during pregnancy, including labour.
A doctor failing to get consent while trying to deliver your baby is not SEXUAL ASSAULT.

Rape by definition is a type of sexual assault usually involving sexual intercourse or other forms of sexual penetration perpetrated against a person without that person's consent.
key word SEXUAL

So yes if the doctor put his dick or something else inside you with SEXUAL INTENT and not because you are giving birth and the baby comes out of your vagina then yes this is rape. but this is NOT what the women are complaining off.
Your response makes me think that you have no read my post or done any of your own research into the matter im even speaking about

While I get the argument you are making I'm not sure I can recall a time when I inserted my "dick" without sexual intent. All consensual of course. The rest I get. I'm a bit baffled why people are latching on to this whole birthrape thing, all of their arguments included. This needs to end. I wish there were a way to bring this to the attention of the wider public.

a reply to: Nyiah
I couldn't careless how you chose to bring your kid into the world. I'm not judgemental like that, but thanks for the label....cough cough hypocritical?

Who I care about are the women who didn't choose that fate. Do we feel sorry for hookers? No. Do,we feel sorry for victims of rape? Yes. That's the whole deal here.

a reply to: s3cz0ne

the sexual intent was more attached to the 'another object' part, I thought the dick part being sexual would be self explanatory.

a reply to: IvyNeptune

Hi Ivy, I was going to quote the parts of your OP that I agreed with and then comment. It was nearly the entire post so I opted to not do that.

I think as a society some of us needing to attach a 'label' to everything is ridiculous! Some things ARE just what they are. Traumatic. Rape? I don't know, that's a stretch IMO. Childbirth IS traumatic for some women and children. It just IS. I believe these women were traumatized but I also believe they are transferring the feelings in the wrong direction...IMO.

I'll tell you a true story.

In 1934, my sister was born. She was born at home in the mountains of Western North Carolina to my Mom who was 13. The doctor was far away in those days. People didn't just "go to the hospital". There was no technology. The older women in the family delivered the child in those days. By "older" I mean anyone older than the one giving birth.
During childbirth my Mom suffered a stroke, seizures, major blood loss, etc. Can most be attributed to her age? Likely IMHO. Also likely was preeclampsia, diabetes, who knows?
She nearly died and was unable to raise or care for her own baby. She was not expected to live long after. It took years for her to learn to walk or talk again. She was unable to feed herself for about two years. I don't think most women today could even imagine that.

I'm of the opinion that "tough as steel" women, like that, are few and far between anymore.
Both of my deliveries could be classified as "emergencies" I suppose.
They were only three years apart and in different states but, the technology, knowledge of the Doctors and Nurses, and quick action was amazing and worlds apart.

In the birth of my first child, there were just a few minutes that a decision had to be made to take the baby from my womb. He was on top of the gurney cutting my lower abdomen while I was being taken to the OR. I wasn't even numb completely yet! The baby's father was NOT allowed in the OR. My Doctor had years of experience. I trusted him through the entire pregnancy, at one point a blood test revealed that my baby might have Down's Syndrome so more tests were ordered. They were negative, thankfully.

But, why would I trust him throughout and then suddenly...not?

During my second delivery, the umbilical cord was wrapped around her throat (once again, I imagine this is what happened during my first delivery). I wore an internal fetal monitor. Her heartbeats kept stopping. We tried every awkward, uncomfortable position to get her heart back beating properly. My contraction were, essentially, killing her with every contraction. Prep was beginning for another emergency C section and she crowned immediately after the episiotomy! Thankfully!

Both of my daughters could have died as well as I!
I am truly grateful for the Doctors and Nurses and their few years apart (seems like decades) knowledge and technology!
I've no doubt that these women and their babies were traumatized. It CAN be traumatic. It (childbirth) can shake you to your core...but...rape?

Do they not imagine what could have happened had their Healthcare Professionals NOT reacted quickly? Did what was necessary? OR, what they, in their knowledge and experience, felt was necessary at the time?
Ungrateful and ignorant IMO and they should be thankful they did not live in the time of my Mother.

Thankfully, my Mom battled back and although she suffered many severe problems her entire life due, we believe, to the childbirth of my sister she lived to the ripe old age of 93!

My sister, suffering some ills as well, went on to nursing school and became one of those in charge of labor and delivery at Ft. Belvoir hospital.

Labels, ingrates, don't know how lucky they truly are, spoiled even...some folks today leaving me shaking my head in disbelief... IMHO.

Thanks for your time, Ivy.

Have a great day!

originally posted by: IvyNeptune
a reply to: watchitburn

exactly! people have ribs broken during cpr.

Have done it myself. If you don't feel that crackly rib popping thing, you're not doing it right!

originally posted by: MOMof3
And I am sure they will appreciate the attention. I had no idea.

I had three live births. The only thing I found annoying was I refused all the monitors and they argued with me. But, when I tore them off myself, they backed off.

Had your baby gotten in trouble, or you, and some harm had come, I'm sure you'd have been among the first to whinge about it. They can't intuit vital signs. Or fetal heartbeats.

a reply to: Bedlam

How many babies have you given birth to? In fact, how many fricking experts are there on the subject of having babies on ATS. You all sound pretty inexperienced and making up a bunch of crap.

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: IvyNeptune

OP, I think you did a good job of trying to be sensitive. I have given birth without pain meds twice, both times in an effort to help my child and to recover more quickly.

1. If you have never given birth to a baby, PLEASE understand that you have no clue regarding the intensity of that experience because it is impossible to describe. Therefore, you do not understand the unique vulnerability of the situation.

Your feelings don't override someone who knows more about the situation than you. Popping out a kid doesn't make you a doc.

2. Medical people are capable of reducing a patient to an objective problem to solve by their protocols verses a human being going through an excruciatingly painful mind altering event. They are taught to be clinical. It can lead to women feeling violated.

They've been through it about a thousand times more than you. So they're not all emotional and panicky about it anymore.

3. Medical staff often care more about what makes the birth easy for THEM and not for the woman.

Medical staff often understand far more about what's safe for you and the child, so they can be insistent that you don't put either one of you in jeopardy.

Yes this is traumatic. Some women feel it is a major violation and that is where the word "rape" comes into play. I think they want to get the message across that it felt like a criminal violation to them. It is not technically or legally rape and you do sign off to let them treat you before you go into the situation.

Some women aren't really sure what's connected to what. Yes, it's painful, yes, it's emotional. You don't want emotion, panic or confusion to come into play. So the docs and nurses aren't all gushy and emo. It works a lot better that way.

Medicine is still seen as Male Dominated even when an OB-GYN is a woman.

Pfft.

So. They have a point. I think calling it rape is not quite accurate, but a violation of their will and body? Yes. It can be that.

You can't always get what you want. If that's a violation of 'will' then so be it.

Still, the solution is to make better equipment, better protocols and provide that safe space to do the painful work of "labor."

"safe space"? A millenial, right? Look, you're trying to fit something the size of a cantaloupe through a space the size of my wrist. It's going to hurt like merry hell.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
To give you some idea of how much of a set of clowns we were dealing with, the fellow who pulled me out of my mothers womb, had set up the forceps incorrectly. They are supposed to cup the skull, like this:

( )

Ah, so THAT's what's wrong with you!

Personally, I like the vacuum thingy they suck the kid out with, looks like a bowling ball attachment.

originally posted by: ketsuko

That's a thing. It's called free birthing.

And it works just fine until it doesn't, then both mom and baby can buy it on the spot.

Not doing it that way is one reason infant deaths are down from, say, the jungles of Borneo.

You people realize that a lot of women give birth very quickly? Like in the parking lot because they don't make it inside? Or in the elevator, like what happened to me. What good are monitors when you are dilated to 10.

Europe is being bombed, the ME is burning, mass slave trade all over the world, all sorts of illness and famine worldwide, misery and suffering

and we are talking about birth rape.

I am not trying to de-validate the issue, I am sure it has SOME merit.....but it should be placed into context. Feminism should be a passive hobby in open and modern western nations where women are WELL served and protected, like watching sci fi movies is. Being a feminist here should be a label like being a Trekkie.

I mean really.

OR

It can become SERIOUS and start to face off with real gender inequality in places like the ME or in Europe where these cultures collide.

We are pretending this is a major issue. It is not. Its sentimental coddling.

The medical field is NOT part of the "patriarchy". Its the medical field. Go become a doctor already and make it more representative. Stop asking for MEN who are doctors to be and think like women.

What? You cant get into school? BS. Cant get a job after? BS. YES YOU CAN on both counts and probably can apply for a subsidy just for having different genitals.

Its the one profession of few that are so hard to perform that the demand is always high.

GO become doctors and make it NOT be male dominated. No one says boys only when handing out jobs to under staffed hospitals the world over.

Its just hard is all. REALLY HARD.

originally posted by: s3cz0ne
From what I understand, and this information is almost four years old, they've actually cut down on cesarians but alot of celebs and rich people are actually able to pre-schedule them as not to have to give natural birth and experience the associated pain(Not to mention possible associated scheduling issues). A very strange society we live in...

Quite a lot of ladies have scheduled inductions these days. Didn't come up for either of mine, but if you go past term, or you have something odd like twins/triplets, the OB often will want you to go into labor when you're on the monitor and the birthing suite is ready to rock, instead of watching TV and having them on the side of the road.