The Truth of Sanders is That He Is a Socialist.

a reply to: macman

I looked up your credentials using the acronyms. Because that's all you gave me, and I didn't know what they meant.

Finnish Futbol League and Stay Out Late, for all I know.

Anyway - so I wasn't wrong that suppressor meant sound suppression = silencer.
I may not know how to reload, but I can tell you the diff between a rifle and a shot gun, a semi-auto and a revolver, and a full metal jacket from a hollow point.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
"Democratic socialists would have government inject itself into the financial system and take control of natural resources to help the broader populace before private profit."

Sounds fricken fine to me. Screw the capitalist oligarchy & addiction to slavery.

YEP. And most Americans agree with you.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: DBCowboy

No I don't. And if you don't understand the terms read a book.

Oligarchy.

That means we have no control over policy.

How is that better?

You're describing the Obama administration. He was going to bring hope and change, remember?

And he has.

Remember where we were in the last few months of the Bush presidency. Remember those dark days? And look at where we are now.

I'm not a big fan of Obama personally, but he did a *helluva* lot better job than either Bush.

Same for Bill Clinton. I loathed the man at one point but he did a lot of things right for this country and we *all* benefited. I have to give credit where credit is due. Politics and parties be damned.

As far as Bernie vs. one of the dangerous clowns from the GOP clown car - put personalities aside and look at what they are actually saying and advocating for. He is the *only* candidate that makes any sense.

Do I wish he didn't have that "socialist" label - sure. But he's tons better than Hillary and light years better than any GOP candidate to date...

My $0.02

I am going to predict that Trump is going to be the biggest socialist of all of them. If he wins. You watch.

originally posted by: MOMof3

I am going to predict that Trump is going to be the biggest socialist of all of them. If he wins. You watch.

He will call it "Capitalized Socialism".

Could be accurate.

originally posted by: alan2102z

originally posted by: Esoterotica
"Democratic socialists would have government inject itself into the financial system and take control of natural resources to help the broader populace before private profit."

Sounds fricken fine to me. Screw the capitalist oligarchy & addiction to slavery.

YEP. And most Americans agree with you.

Of course neither of you see the ramifications of having the government own and controlling all land, all property that can produce, etc, etc...

It means bye bye to several of our rights. The right to property would go out the window. The right to own and bear arms would go out the window... and then it would be "socialism of the 21st century a la Chavez"...

Chavez was the latest dictator to impose socialism through "social democracy", by lying to the people claiming everything will be dandy, everyone would be equal, everyone would get paid more" ect, etc...

Sanders has claimed he would increase salaries/median income by more than $22,000... He would create 26 million jobs, and would make unemployment fall to 3.8%...

These are LIES... How much in taxes would he had to raise to make this viable? Trillions of dollars which will only cause more debt, more inflation.

That's without mentioning his love for power...


(wait, wth? why is the word "window" being censored by ATS?...)

I'm actually a bit stunned at this.

Firstly, I'm not American- I always feel I have to clarify that before talking about US politics.

Is Mccarthyism still looming large over political debate there?!?

I don't grasp why the term Socialist is still anathema or taboo in America for so many! I actually worry a bit about political knowledge in American media because of things like this and the whole complete misuse of the word "Liberal" which is absurd and, I believe, consciously managed (If you consistently try to equate the word 'liberal', classically politically centre, with the political left as so many seem to do then you constrict and shift contemporary political debate to the right meaning conservatism is almost all that is discussed and seen as reasonable).

I think almost all members of the conservative party here (UK) would accept that the NHS, effectively a socialist idea, has been a brilliant thing for the UK. I find it hard to believe there are many conservatives in America who wouldn't support some "Socialist" type decisions.

Unless of course they're "football team" type voters, where they pick "their side" and simply vote for them regardless of policy- these people are the enemy of democracy. There's also a related point to these people who I only really encounter with Americans because of this effectively binary system that you have which is if someone criticises an element of one political party then it's automatically assumed that you are a staunch supporter of the other lot- most places it is just taken as what it is at face value, people don't presume this "party for life" type view.

P.S. This isn't any kind of attack on anyone/thing so apologies if it sounds that way. Just thoughts I've had from the outside looking in!

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

That's without mentioning his love for power...

His love for Power??? Bernie Sanders?? Are you high??

Where on earth are you getting that from??? When has Sanders ever displayed an overt love of power???

You people just pull sh*t out of your butts and act as if it's some kind of common fact we all regard as true. Unfortunately it's just your paranoia acting up.

BTW, everything else you mentioned is also just speculation without anything to back it up. Just broad unfounded accusations. You aren't a Trump supporter too are you??

a reply to: yes4141

Thank you for pointing out the ludicrosity of the statements made by ignorant parrots who only listen to sensationalist, counter-productive loudmouth numbskulls and ninnies.

It is quite demoralizing to realize how many Americans are so deliberately UNINFORMED, and despite being corrected, they continue with their online lies and disinfo. Even worse, perhaps, are the ones who appear to otherwise be bright, but fail miserably - spectacularly, dazzlingly - at THINKING.

Or LEARNING.

You can tell them 500 times, and they still won't listen. Disgraceful.
It is true that in communication skills, a person typically needs to hear something 5 times for them to absorb it. Too many Republicans require 100s of times of hearing it. And even then, spread lies. I honestly don't know why ATS allows it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Tuesday's primaries will be a tipping point for Sanders.

I'm wondering where the supporters are?

Not seeing much positive flow for Bernie recently.

I think many have conceded already and some might be voting for Hillary, or not voting at all.

Lots of name calling and denial is all I see now.

This Tuesday is ultra important.

a reply to: xuenchen

I think people may be suffering from "Bern" out.

a reply to: xuenchen

Or we're just tired of wasting our time talking to trolls who DON'T LISTEN.

Today it was in the news that the Gov of Kansas has vetoed part of the budget proposal that the Legis served up, related to bringing the American Royal to my county.

You know what he's going to do? FURTHER CUT education and social services, and INCREASE prison and corrections personnel pay. He is a joke - his stupid "experiment" has failed, and he keeps up with his denial. He is a consummate jerk - a GOP ultra-conservative Seven Mountain Dominionist.
Source: Kansas City dot Com

After disturbing news Tuesday that the state’s February tax receipts fell $53 million short of estimates, Brownback cut the state’s allocation to the state’s university system by 3 percent, or $17 million. But that means the current budget still faces a shortfall of more than $30 million without more cuts or a revenue boost.

While reducing overall spending, the budget bill increased pay for officers in the Kansas Department of Corrections and in the Kansas Bureau of Investigation.

“At every step during his time as governor, Sam Brownback has mismanaged our state, leading to disastrous consequences,” Hensley said in a statement. “Kansas is in a crisis created by this governor and his allies in the Legislature and they refuse to fix it. They are making our children pay for their political experiment with their education and their future.”

Read more here: www.kansascity.com...=cpy

He got into power, tried his method, and IT FAILED. What more do you people need as proof that your ridiculous scheme can NEVER hold up?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

See your post is part of the problem.

Name calling and total frustration.

Big turnoff.

The Sanders supporters need to address the issues and the candidates, not the average person that has no control over policies.

I have a hunch these type of attitudes will destroy the Sanders Campaign.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: xuenchen

I think people may be suffering from "Bern" out.

I think you are correct.

It's like nobody even knows how to address the opposition.

It's like they are waiting for "somebody else" to do the hard work that comes with the major changes being proposed by Sanders.

Simply voting for a candidate is only half the battle.

a reply to: xuenchen

Bull crap. Clean up your own house. Start telling the truth and stop with the flippant mockery of the whole thing.

My edit shows how much of a failure the state that I LIVE IN is BECAUSE of the stupid GOP policies that so many people think are great.

It. Doesn't. Work.
I am witness to that, in a state that tried it. It doesn't work.

I am frustrated also with the disinfo being spewed by those who should know better- and who WOULD know better if only they paid attention and listened to others, rather than the nit-wits who fill their heads with lies and exaggerations.

a reply to: xuenchen

It's like they are waiting for "somebody else" to do the hard work that comes with the major changes being proposed by Sanders.

More crap.
We try and try and try, every bloody day, to drill into the thick skulls around here that Sanders does NOT want to "take control of all means of production" nor does he want to "make everyone live equal quality of life." Why don't you HELP us, instead of just mocking EVERYONE?!!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

But we are not talking about State or Local issues.

The national issues could however affect States, but not much.

The tangents won't cut the mustard unfortunately.

I understand the frustration and the failure of ideals.

a reply to: xuenchen

The national issues could however affect States, but not much.

Kansas refused the government's offer to help shore up Medicaid/Medicare via ACA. Social services are nearly gone, education has been cut, taxes lowered, and it is failing.

If a state can't pull it off, how can the whole nation?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I agree about the problems with the inconsistencies of the Medicaid expansion.

I think the States not going along is because of the Supreme Court ruling that found the Federal expansion requirement coercive.

I believe the ACA writers knew that part was in fact coercive.

Political motivation was the problem.

And we now know many States that have the expansion are having financial problems associated with it.

Illinois for example, is already moving people on Medicaid to private HMO policies to lessen the money impacts and lessen the government administrative failures.



The case for national Medicare has some merit (in spirit), but you need to realize what that system is up against.

Perhaps Bernie should change his stance of total government control to something like using the existing private companies?

I bet that might get more general support.

a reply to: xuenchen

Well, thank you. This may be the very first post from you to me that is longer than two lines. I genuinely appreciate the time and effort to give a more conversational reply. You seem inordinately close to "sincere" - but that's simply my perspective.

The ACA definitely needs rethinking - but even Trump and Kasich talk about making sure no one falls through the cracks. Cruz and Rubio want to do away with it altogether, from what I can tell.

Elder law and geriatric demography mandate that we MUST be prepared for the Baby Boom's continue retirement, and the amount of money being used to "house" the expired specimens. My pharmacist, just this morning, said "I hate insurance," with a big sigh having to point out that the price has once again gone up - due to "insurance" trying to dictate what 'dosage' was appropriate.

As though it's up to them, and not between the Doctor and Client. That pisses me off. Because effectively, elders are not aware or able to speak up, while insurers and providers fleece us.

I know fraud is a big problem, and government bureaucracy is overly cumbersome. I worked in the non-profit sector, social services field. It is also problematic that while auto insurers can sell nationally, health care insurers can not. This prohibits competition.

It would be a tremendous overhaul, and one which would no doubt be handed to the states to enact locally and 'govern' it, using federal funds on an invoice basis with streamlined Accounts Payable and Receivable systems. One payer. Business as usual. Rates get adjusted for marketability, doctors compete for per-service up-front costs, blah blah blah. From the pharma monopoly to the insurance restroom, they are ALL gouging Americans. And laughing.

I don't claim to have the answers, but what we are doing, in light of already-effective plans in Canada and Australia (the two largest of the many who use nationalized health care) is stupid. Just like the governor of Kansas is demonstrating and proving the failure of the "ideas" promoted by Cruz and Rubio, the countries already engaged in national systems are demonstrating and proving the success rate of nationalized health care.

Outcomes. We have to look at OUTCOMES.

There are people who can teach us from experience!