Sanders Verses Trump, Lets Do This!

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: Spider879

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: Teikiatsu

well there you go ladies and gents. its a difficult goal, so forget the pursuit of happiness just exploit and screw everyone else. all that matters is how big the oil tycoons' yacht can get. its a good thing you aren't running for president.

let the Trump supporters stand as an example.

It only ends up as exploitation and screwing people over in the minds of people with no grasp of economics. Or in other words, Bernie supporters.

Government has screwed things up, so by all means give government more power to fix what it broke. Makes perfect sense.

So a future where corporate rule is the answer??..every movie I had seen tell me it's a bad idea. ..corporations are not moral they are by necessity A moral where the end game is the bottom line, human factor be damned, laissez-faire capitalism was bad during the industrial revolution then it would be worst now.

While we have an over TWENTY TRILLION dollar Federal Debt.

While cities are LYING to citizens about the amount of lead in drinking water.

But yeah, the "rich"...

Have you ever really pondered the vastness of TWENTY TRILLION?

Care to examine why the rivers are so poisonous??...mainly runoff from where??..crumbling infrastructure, massive tax cuts to corporations who parked it all in off shore accounts??, bloated military contracts in the tune of

Take note of the Blue most of that is going to Corporate.
Who then turn around and not pay taxes on it.

Crumbling infrastructure so more TAXES to fund the same people that are supposed to repair it huh?
How much do I pay for Government to NOT use my money, and waste on >>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh yeah, waste it on your second mention....MILITARY. Who declares wars? Corporations?
Nope. GOVERNMENT does. These arms manufacturers would be nowhere with GOVERNMENTS to squander taxpayer money on the next smartbomb......GOVERNMENT....again.

Why is government so wasteful? Like I said TWENTY TRILLION dollars....

But yeah, Verizon Wireless and Walmart are ruining us. Yep, it's the 'Rich'.

Yes the government and it will always be there, so better not pick a warmonger. So your only pick is Sanders.

Yes Wallmarts and big Corps are destroying you. If you dont get that: They ruin competition, drive up prices, drive down wages, dont reinvest their profits unless in their own company, they lobby for anti-people laws. Its not difficult to see how big corporations ruin countries if you ever had a basic economy course.

Sanders will bring back the middle class, fight big corps, services = more jobs, more jobs= higher incomes. Minimum wages up with 30?% does for example easily compensate for a 9% tax raise in the same income class.

How do you not get that a bigger middle class means more people have more to spend for less work? If this was some kind of fiction how do you think any European country does it with even more taxes? They have a middle class and more taxes + better social services so yes it works and isnt the fiction you portray.

Trump vs Sanders

Would be the equivalent of
Larry Flynnt vs Jacque Fresco

For those that say no to that face off.

Do you want a traditional battle of Clinton VS Bush ?
I don't want you to pick who you think is best to beat for your side, that is self pandering to political self-interest.

What match up would be best for America then ?

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: amicktd
a reply to: DBCowboy

Yeah, um. . . what's the upside to Sanders?

He's not Trump.

Tell you what, if Trump is going to grow government bigger than socialist-Sanders and tax me even more than Comrade Bernie, I'll change my vote.

Tell you what, once you actually read Bernie's policies and quit stating the same false statements, let me know and and we can have a constructive debate.

Quick question.

Will taxes go up under a Sanders presidency?

Taxes are going to go up no matter who gets elected. This is one area I completely ignore during campaigning.

Now, if a candidate comes forth with a realistic plan to make the way we use taxes more efficient and not bogged down in red tape bureaucracy --- let me know.

Is Trump or Cruz calling for an increase in taxes?

Is Trump or Cruz calling for making government bigger?

While you are correct that nothing much will change, I can't get behind anyone who openly states that I'm going to be poorer if only I support them.

But while you may get an increase in taxes, you will be spending less out of pocket money in the long run.
Also, Brenie's plans reach a lot deeper than an increase in taxes.

As to being "poorer", your life will overtime become greatly enriched with real value, real peace of mind and perhaps real happiness. Things that money can't really buy.

You know, like being treated as an important member of Earth and not some animal that must sink or swim.

Here we are in 2016, cloning and exploring and reaching the highest peaks in all areas of science. And we live in a world where the supposedly greatest nation on this planet refuses to provide through the taxes of its hard working citizens, universal healthcare, housing, higher education and food for all that need it.

WTF?

LOL
You think the government can spend my money better than I can? You think they'll spend less of my money on healthcare than I currently spend, and if so, what makes that a positive?

Government is a bastion of waste.

[/post]
a reply to: Teikiatsu
Its not difficult to see how big corporations ruin countries if you ever had a basic economy course.

You've got to be kidding me. Can you please point me to an economist who says big businesses are ruining the economy? A real economist. Of course you can't. They don't exist.

I love economics, had to take many econ classes for my degree and had it as a minor for a while. I've never seen one ounce of evidence supporting your assertion.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: DBCowboy

Great if your a government employee and can leech the best healthcare and a pension for the rest of your life at the expense of the taxpayer as a "bonus".

That is a joke you know.

The avg grade of a government employee is GS-10. That means an avg of~ $62,913 per year.
Avg US income ~$55,000 per year

Government workers DO NOT get a full retirement. We have a three part system comprised of Social Security, TSP and a small basic plan.
The TSP is a 401k type system that matches the first 5% you put in. No personal input and you only get 1% invested.
The basic plan also only gives you 1% of your high 3 year average. (Very similar to SS.)

My family Health care cost me about $400 month for a descent package (defiantly not a Cadillac plan.)

For my experience and career field my pay would be around $73,000 + bonus, profit and Commission (none of which you get as a GS.) for a total of about $80-90,000 on average. (I was making $110,000/ year for a while.) but the job was a rat race with the risk of losing it all the time.

The idea that ALL government employees are over paid and don't work is way off. Yes there are that 10% that work in DC that make $100,000 + a year, but most do not. For the most part you will never get rich working for the government, but you can have stability and a good living if you don't live overboard.

Also most government employees average 30-40 years before retiring. Don't confuse politicians with government employees.

All this being said there ARE some that work the system. Most of us that work of the government despise them as much or more then you do.

originally posted by: matafuchs
Trump wants lower taxes. People scream but you can lower taxes. You just have to also cut budgets. There should be less coming in AND going out...

Or redirect what is going out.

Time to cut all those liberal arts programs. If a museum wants a new painting get a donor to pay for it.
Want to write a book? Find a supporter. Time to cut the budget for arts and crafts in the US.

Also time to cut the money to countries that don't like us. Want us gone and don't want us to bother you? Fine, but the checkbook goes too.

That is assuming that socialism supports your own and communities interests. Which can be argued it does not.
In fact your own interest and the community interest most times don't match.

Socialism is a pipe dream, always has been. As long as one person has something else another wants it will NEVER work.

Ever heard of the lowest common denominator? Socialism at its best.

Now if you could pull a group of people out and start them all together from the time they where born to live this way...MAYBE it would work.

originally posted by: WonOunce
a reply to: infolurker

Well sure the middle class does have some of the money but the rich have most of the money. The thing is they hide and cheat with paying taxes on that money, so that leaves the burdon on the rest of us. We need to get rid of the bull# rules that allow the rich to hide their money and then tax the # out of them. One less golden toilet seat.

That is BS and has been show many time. It sounds good, but is not a fact. I showed on a thread a while back that if you split the top 1% money to just the people in the US they would all get about $500 each --- ONCE then it would be all gone. $500 for each person and then no more "rich" people to milk. Where do you get the money for next years milking? Take the top 10%? probably good for another $500-1000 this year then it is gone to. Then where?

The majority of the liquid wealth is held by the middle class. Sure each of us has much less the the rich, but think about it. How many hundreds or thousands of us are there compared to the "rich"

Sanders has my vote. His policies are a huge swing from where we currently stand but that is what's needed after 30+ years of corporations creating the worst government money can buy.