Proof of the danger of Conservative philosophy to life, health and the Welfare of people.

People want to remain in denial over clear facts.

The austerity philosophy of conservative, mainly Republican, philosophy is clearly defined in our modern age of scientific technology and advancement where there are still millions of people who live as if it’s the 18th century all over the world including the US.

People like Chris Christie want to cut meager SS and child welfare.

Cruz wants to gut Obamacare not considering all the people he may kill in doing so in the name of saving tax payers money and austerity.

Just two examples of what this OP is about there are many more who peddle the austerity nonsense.

THIS IS A SCAM

There's more wealth in the world than all the wealth combined in the history of humans.

It's just that a sinister, selfish philosophy of greed with the aid and help of the republican conservative party has overtaken this nation of plenty. Now as one OP tells us 62 people , mostly from America own more than half the wealth of all the people in the world, 7 BILLION PEOPLE!

Not all the conservatives think like this, thank God.

Trump for instance knows better and so does the preacher Huckaby

But most of this scam of austerity is prized by conservative, republican basic philosophy

It must be defeated because if not many human beings on the margins of life will be affected by their anti-human ideas which always just so happen to be just what the 1 percent want.

originally posted by: NateTheAnimator
a reply to: Willtell

The proof is in the pudding that conservative, mostly GOP philosophy is dangerous to the life, limb, and welfare of people!

Can we stop with the partisan bull#... You state in your OP that this is about human beings, so how is pointing out the flaws in the GOP philosophy going to help the poor being neglected by both sides of the political spectrum? All you've proved is the partisan politics is not how you solve the issues plaguing any nation-state.

As much as I would identify more with left political principles, both sides are #ing terrible. End of story. Focus on the substance of the issues instead of using the issues to supply banter for your endless political diatribe.

Look if two philosophies say this:

One, there not perfect but they want to have universal health insurance


Because of the stubbornness of the other group in power all they can get is Obamacare

The other puts up excuses why we shouldn’t.

Even though EVRY CIVILIZED NATION IN THIS WORLD HAS SOME VIABLE FORM OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL

And even many of the uncivilized societies have this.

So one should look away from that objective reality?

And not label those who prevent this basic human need for what they are. Don't call them out for what they do?

I don't think so...

And therefore many die because of it.

Your logic fails

a reply to: Falenor

Flint's lead levels had been declining from the Detroit system until they switched to the river then the levels went up fast and high. In your fact finding what was the reason for the switch to begin with?

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Willtell

This certainly isn't proof. The link between reducing tax on the rich and the Flint water crisis is quite the stretch. Likewise in Kansas.

Also, if you want to call this proof, perhaps we could be fair and discuss the implications on life and safety that liberal overspending has. Or the lack of support for law enforcement by the left. Or border controls. Or crime. Or family values. Or people outright leaving the job market. Or....

One could go on and on for hours about harmful effects that left or right wing policies have. The point is, what you posted certainly isn't proof of anything, and it's just more rhetoric and partisan banter.

No it’s not a stretch it’s a clear chain of evidential reality that this was a nom democratic action by a GOP governor attempt to save money

Now thousands of children are affected FOR LIFE.

Some have even died they think from Legionnaires’ Disease .

Anyway how can you deny the clear history of the philosophy of the republican party being the champion of always saving tax money

They are, have been, the biggest and loudest mouth pieces for saving the tax money of the massively wealthy to the detriment to the society.

Kansas is a case in point.

Kansas’ Governor Destroyed The State Budget With Massive Tax Cuts And Now Kansans Are Paying The Price

thinkprogress.org...

There the Republican governor cut taxes massively in some experiment. A GOP heaven he felt would occur.

NO that didn’t occur! The massive tax cuts in Kansas (mainly for the rich) have brought about a vicious cycle of budgetary problems unprecedented in Kansas history with three quarters of a billion budget hole.

Now schools have to close, their so underfunded a judge had to step in and make them fund the schools.

The same thing happened in Louisiana with republican governor Bobby Jindal.

Now they have a huge hole in the budget that affects the people negatively

Same thing in NJ.

In the schools they don’t even have paper to print in the classrooms. There not even servicing the computers in the schools anymore in the poor districts because the republican governor cut the aid to poor schools so much, and refused a millionaires tax, that the schools are failing worst than they have ever been.

THIS IS A DIRECT CAUSE AND EFFECT OF GOP PHILOSOPHY AND POLICY

It’s the GOP mentality of always trying to save money on the backs of poor, usually black and brown people in the country.

So consequently this mentality of “ we don’t much give a dam about these kinds of people, poor people has taken hold in the state governments.

Fine, go ahead save some money. Be conscious of that BUT NOT WHEN IT COMES TO THE DRINKING WATER OF KIDS GODDAMMIT.

Can’t you put down you’re obsession of saving money for billionaires and millionaires for a few seconds?

As a civilization where’s our soul?

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Falenor

Flint's lead levels had been declining from the Detroit system until they switched to the river then the levels went up fast and high. In your fact finding what was the reason for the switch to begin with?

I've already stated that it was not a good choice to switch to river water. The reason appears to be either the state advised or even forced Flint onto that system as opposed to the Detroit Lake system. Claiming that the lead levels had been declining from the Detroit system is irrelevant, the lead didn't come from the Detroit system, it came from the effects of a lower P.H from the river system they switched to.

As it seems, council agreed 7 to 1 to switch to the river....not good in my view and I believe we agree on this. Again...regardless....the City of Flint did not adapt to the lower P.H of their new water source. This is not rocket science, or something to be blind sided by, other cities have had to deal with the same issues, Flint isn't the only City in North America with ancient lead pipes. Either way, when you change the water source issues may arise, and again the State and EPA missed that fact as well. Regardless..for the 5th or 8th time...The city of Flint is responsible for their water supply and I've explained how the leaching of lead could be avoided.

Look.....I don't think we are really in too much disagreement here. I blame complete bureaucratic idiocy with little oversight, responsibility, or consequences for disasters like this...You blame...well...racism....I'm sure somewhere something similar has happened in a city that has the opposite demographic.

Go to the link to get the details but Ill quote the main parts.

Very tragic story. People talk about revolutions. Its stories like this can start revolutions.

As Flint, under the control of a state-appointed emergency manager, decided to save money on water.
.... The switch would save millions of dollars per year.?

The problem was that the regional water system wasn’t yet built, and Flint wanted to start getting its water from somewhere other than Detroit right away.

So the city started taking its water directly from the Flint River in 2014 — celebrating its break from Detroit with a countdown and a toast, Michigan Radio reported.

www.salon.com...

Not a terrible idea, on its face. Just the kind of technocratic and efficient cost-cutting that Snyder, who likes to call himself “one tough nerd,” made central to his political brand. But the problem, as you might have guessed, was that this idea was more clever than good. After all, it doesn’t really matter how cheap your water is if it’s poisoned:

Residents started complaining about the water’s smell and taste almost immediately, saying it caused rashes, hair loss, and other health problems. A nearby General Motors plant said the water was damaging its car parts and quit using it. At one point, residents had to boil water due to bacteria.

But the city assured them that everything was fine, and that the bad smell and taste didn’t necessarily indicate other problems. They claimed federal tests showed the water was safe.

In late June, an employee at the US Environmental Protection Agency’s Chicago office leaked a report on Flint’s water to a local activist, whose son had developed a rash after swimming in a pool filled with Flint water and was diagnosed with lead poisoning. It said tests found high lead levels in the water. The city had told the woman the lead came from her plumbing, not the water.

Flint’s city managers resisted admitting their colossal mistake as long as they could. But after Virginia Tech researchers “found elevated levels [of lead in the water] in 40 percent of the homes the researchers tested,” Nelson writes, the objective facts soon overwhelmed the spin.

Finally, after allowing who knows how many people to continue drinking poison, Flint started handing out water filters. It’s buying its water from Detroit again, too.

If you don’t know already, the reason lead poisoning is so serious — and the reason the focus has been its effect on Flint’s children — is because it can wreak serious damage on still-developing brains. As Nelson writes, there is no amount of exposure to lead that is regarded as safe, and it can lead to “learning disabilities, lower IQs, and impulsivity.”

The human costs, meanwhile, are difficult to comprehend. It’s likely that there are many children in Flint whose lives will never be the same. And all this because the powers that be in Lansing — who dispatched the city managers who signed off on using the water from the Flint River — responded to the Great Recession with a draconian program of austerity. They wanted to save some money; and now the cost of “small government” will be borne by those who can’t afford it.

We always save money for the wrong reasons and the weak, infirm, minorities, poor white brothers, and the lowest who don't have lobbyists all over Washington and state capitals get it the worst

a reply to: Falenor

I blame greed. They just went after the most vulnerable target, who most of the time are poor black communities. The whole thing was to get cheaper source of water.


"Del Toral said his recommendations for follow-up with the DEQ and for EPA to determine whether the water system was in violation of federal law bogged down as the state contested whether Flint should be required to further treat its water to make it less corrosive and requested a legal opinion from the federal government."

"Dan Wyant, former DEQ director, resigned his position in December after a task force laid responsibility for the Flint water crisis at the feet of the department."

www.mlive.com...

originally posted by: Falenor

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Falenor

Flint's lead levels had been declining from the Detroit system until they switched to the river then the levels went up fast and high. In your fact finding what was the reason for the switch to begin with?

I've already stated that it was not a good choice to switch to river water. The reason appears to be either the state advised or even forced Flint onto that system as opposed to the Detroit Lake system. Claiming that the lead levels had been declining from the Detroit system is irrelevant, the lead didn't come from the Detroit system, it came from the effects of a lower P.H from the river system they switched to.

As it seems, council agreed 7 to 1 to switch to the river....not good in my view and I believe we agree on this. Again...regardless....the City of Flint did not adapt to the lower P.H of their new water source. This is not rocket science, or something to be blind sided by, other cities have had to deal with the same issues, Flint isn't the only City in North America with ancient lead pipes. Either way, when you change the water source issues may arise, and again the State and EPA missed that fact as well. Regardless..for the 5th or 8th time...The city of Flint is responsible for their water supply and I've explained how the leaching of lead could be avoided.

Look.....I don't think we are really in too much disagreement here. I blame complete bureaucratic idiocy with little oversight, responsibility, or consequences for disasters like this...You blame...well...racism....I'm sure somewhere something similar has happened in a city that has the opposite demographic.

Certainly bureaucratic idiocy is too influenced by saving money off the backs of poor people


I doubt such bureaucratic idiocy would have taken place in the rich suburbs of Michigan


If it did you’d have some bureaucratic heads rolling down the river as fast as you could say Flint River

a reply to: Willtell

People want to remain in denial over clear facts. The austerity philosophy of conservative, mainly Republican, philosophy is clearly defined in our modern age of scientific technology and advancement where there are still millions of people who live as if it’s the 18th century all over the world including the US.

Denial is only the tip of the iceberg,people out there are actually convinced it is the poor that are causing the damage..

Greed is a disease that sees no boundaries, it consumes all ....

a reply to: MOMof3

Agreed on the cheaper water source, as well I'll agree that we disagree on racism if that's alright with you....Either way somebody screwed up big time and will have to pay.

Ah....yes...look at the DEQ and EPA squirm now, again though....they don't run Flint's water system, only regulate it. Yes, they messed up as per enforcing the corrosion issue which caused the lead, but on the other hand the City of Flint isn't just some village idiot that doesn't know any better, I still think they're most to blame. Basically those two agencies shouldn't have had to told Flint to treat it's water to be less corrosive, Flint knowing it's own infrastructure having that many lead pipes should have known better.

Again....for the 4th or 7th time again, adding a chemical at their own water treatment plant at Flint, that would increase the P.H would have prevented the lead leaching issue. Lye or Sodium Hydroxide has been used in other cities for the very same purpose.

Either way it's late.....off to bed.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Willtell

People want to remain in denial over clear facts. The austerity philosophy of conservative, mainly Republican, philosophy is clearly defined in our modern age of scientific technology and advancement where there are still millions of people who live as if it’s the 18th century all over the world including the US.

Denial is only the tip of the iceberg,people out there are actually convinced it is the poor that are causing the damage..

Greed is a disease that sees no boundaries, it consumes all ....

I hear you...

I guess what’s worst than greed is the blindness that prevents people from seeing it for what it is and where it is.

People here don’t realize the utter catastrophic enormity of this modern horror show in Michigan.

What did those kids do to deserve this?

You see, those that don’t see are blind in their heart not in their eyes

I wonder where fox news played this story. Certainly not the first story

they downplay the destructive results of their philosophy

Where is this story even being told on conservative sites?

I hear the GOP are going to call hearings but haven’t invited the republican governor.

Not in an election year

a reply to: Willtell

I suspect all we will see in the media is a bunch of mud slinging and blame shifting...

People here don’t realize the utter catastrophic enormity of this modern horror show in Michigan.

Perhaps then using terms they will understand like how many $$ it will cost to fix this mess up, just the medical cost from this mess will be astronomical ......tax payers will be footing the bill for the bureaucratic blunder...

Detroit was going to cut their water off early so they had no choice

a reply to: MOMof3

a reply to: mikell

The crisis timeline distributed to reporters and now available to the public online states that in June 2013, "City of Flint decides to use the Flint River as a water source," a phrasing similar to what the governor used in his State of the State speech, ("Flint began to use water from the Flint River as an interim source") suggesting that the city, not the state, drove the interim decision to use the highly corrosive river water for city residents.

Here's the problem with that: City officials did not drive the decision to take water from the Flint River. There was never such a vote by the city council, which really didn't have the power to make such a decision anyway, because the city was under the control of a state-appointed emergency manager.

The council's vote in March 2013 was to switch water supply from Detroit to a new pipeline through the Karegnondi Water Authority – but the pipeline wasn't scheduled to be completed for at least three years. (And even that decision was given final approval not by the council, but by then-state Treasurer Andy Dillon, according to Snyder emails released Wednesday.)

Snyder said that Detroit, after being informed of the Flint council vote, sent a "letter of termination" of water service. Detroit sent a letter giving Flint one year on its existing contract, but that didn't mean Flint couldn't get water from Detroit after that date. In fact, there was a flurry of negotiations between Detroit and Flint to sign a new contract that would carry Flint through until it could connect to the under-construction pipeline. That new contract was going to cost Flint more money.

This distinction is important to note because merely stating that Flint received a "letter of termination" makes it sound as if a thirsty Flint had no choice but to stick a straw in the Flint River. Flint could have elected to sign a new contract with the the Detroit water system (in fact, Flint reconnected to Detroit water after the situation in the city became a full-fledged, hair-on-fire crisis). Flint disconnected from Detroit because it was cheaper to take water from the Flint River until the new pipeline was completed. Here's a letter from then-emergency manager Darnell Earley saying Flint was choosing to use Flint water instead of Detroit water.

Which brings us to the state's timeline statement: "June 2013: City of Flint decides to use the Flint River as a water source."

Flint officials didn't make that decision while under state emergency management. State-appointed emergency manager Ed Kurtz made that decision, which would have had to be approved by the state. Here's the document from June 2013 signed by Kurtz authorizing an engineering contract to figure out how to draw water from the river.

www.mlive.com...

a reply to: Willtell

I'm conservative and very safe, happy, successful and healthy.

The people of flint aren't generally conservative and are poor, poisoned, and do not seem happy.

I think your premise is flawed.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: Falenor

Flint's lead levels had been declining from the Detroit system until they switched to the river then the levels went up fast and high. In your fact finding what was the reason for the switch to begin with?

The city of Flint was switching to the Huron system, but the system was not going to be built before a certain year. Detroit cut off Flint's contract a year before that switch could take place. The options at that point were to negotiate a contract with Detroit for one year at a much, much higher rate than the previous (note: they were switching to Huron in the first place because the Detroit rates were ALREADY too high) or to use the already agreed upon backup, the Flint River.

They went with the Flint River probably reasoning that it would only be necessary for a year before they could start using the Huron system which had always been the goal.

What they didn't count on was that the water dept. would be inept and not use the anti-corrosives and that entire QA/QC process that should have served as the safeguard would break down.

thefederalist.com...

This is where most of the media get it wrong. Usually the story goes that the city began using the Flint River because it was cheaper than using Detroit’s water. It sounds like the emergency manager or governor just decided to use the river water. But that misses a step.


The Flint River was not the first choice.

The Flint River was not the first choice. The emergency manager did meet with representatives from the state treasury and they talked about the river as a possible water source, but also of joining a brand-new water authority called the Karagondi Water Authority. In April 2014, the EM, with symbolic approval from the Flint City Council, moved to join this new body, which would draw water from Lake Huron. The pipeline was being built, and was slated to go online in 2016.


The day after the City Council vote, Detroit Water said it would end its contract with Flint in one year. This meant the city had to figure out what to do for water in that intervening year. Michigan Radio says Detroit didn’t cut Flint off, and that is somewhat correct, but it is also a bit odd that the day after a decision has been made to join a new water authority Detroit would conveniently tell Flint its contract ended not in 2016, but in 2015 when the pipeline would not yet be finished.


Now, at this point, Flint should have worked harder to secure a better deal with Detroit. But the fact remains that Flint was put in a tough spot. This is when they made the fateful decision to use Flint River water. The Flint River wasn’t the first choice, it was the backup choice.


Was this a good decision? Probably not. Anyone who lived in Flint knew the river was suspect because the auto plants had probably leached chemicals into the river. But it is important to know the city made this decision when a better option appeared closed.

I wonder what the cure for conservatism is.

a reply to: DBCowboy

I wonder what the cure for conservatism is.

The cure is Education, particularly in the Liberal Arts & Humanities (aka Liberal Arts & Sciences, depending on the institution).