Why are you so afraid of the socialist society?

Hello friends. I am very curious to know why some of you are so incredibly negative towards the idea of a socialist approach to sosiety in the US? Reading posts here on ATS i find most of your opinions and meanings towards how it really works, and would work for you guys, to be filled with an astounding amount of fear of it all.

Do you think the government would just take over everything and dictate your say in every matter? Tax you into the ground? Give you free healthcare, free education and restrict your opportunities for Success?

Living in Norway, a country where society is based on socialist dogmas I will happily try to answer any questions you have of it all and debate to the best of my abilities.

Can you define what a socialist society actually is? There is a lot of confusion in the US about what socialism actually means. Many people believe that socialism and communism are interchangeable.

-dex

Because socialism as implemented is seldom done voluntarily. I would be added to the system whether or not I thought it was a good idea, and if the system becomes abusive (see Venezuela), there is seldom an easy or peaceful way to unravel it as those in charge have a vested interest in maintaining the system to their advantage.

a reply to: DexterRiley

The American public school system is a good example of a nearly 100% socialized system.

a reply to: maplecustom

They're scared because there is unlimited demand for social security, healthcare and education from South America. And taxes in the USA would have to rise to pay the interest on the international loans required to pay for all of that.

California is the best example. Why are Californian CEO's made to pay 50% tax on their income and yet the state still runs a deficit.

a reply to: maplecustom

The US government is horribly corrupt and filled with self-serving people who abuse the system for the sake of power.

To give the US government MORE control, MORE authority would only escalate the level of corruption.

imho

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DexterRiley

The American public school system is a good example of a nearly 100% socialized system.

So is the US military.

~Tenth

a reply to: ketsuko

The American public school system is a good example of a nearly 100% socialized system.

The public school system in the US these days is a mess. However that was not always the case. Years ago when I graduated from High School I had a top notch public education.

Was socialism okay all those decades ago? Or has the system now become so bloated because of all those decades of socialism?

And, if the public education system wasn't socialist, what system would work better?



-dex

a reply to: maplecustom

I don't believe it's necessarily fear that drives people against socialism. It's the notion that people want to keep what they earn. There's nothing wrong with that notion either. I believe that there is three areas where socialism should be a necessity: food, water, and shelter. I believe everyone should be able to have food, a place to call home, and access to water. Outside of those three things, free market capitalism is key. If you want that 60" curved OLED TV, then go work for it. If you want that $50k dollar BMW, then go work for it. If you want the 4,000 square foot home with a hot tub and in-ground pool, then work for it.

We have basic necessities and luxuries. The luxuries should never be subsidized.

a reply to: DexterRiley

I would suggesta good mix of chartered schools and private schools.

And you make the schools accountable for the performance of the children, not the other way around.

Every government initiative since the GI bill for education has basically been a complete atrocity.

~Tenth

a reply to: maplecustom

by the people... of the people... and... gasp for the people? oh heavens no.

«sarcastically shudders»

originally posted by: maplecustom

Do you think the government would just take over everything and dictate your say in every matter? Tax you into the ground? Give you free healthcare, free education and restrict your opportunities for Success?

Yes, yes and yes. In order to give to someone you have to take it from someone else and it's taken from me at the point of a gun. (No really, If you don't pay your government mandated taxes men with guns will come and take it by force).

In this country they already take too much from working people and give it to people who don't work. I fund egregious government pensions and double dipping government workers. Every week I see the rampant abuse of government programs at my children's school and my local grocery stores. I've had enough. As a maker I have to set limits because the takers never do.

a reply to: EternalSolace

How do you pay for these things? Food, water and shelter for everyone. And how do you justify suborning the labor of those who produce those things you just created as "rights?" How can they keep what they earn when what they produce is something no one should have to pay for?

Now, I agree that someone has the right to food, clothing, and shelter, but this is already covered by one's basic right to property and keeping what they earn.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: maplecustom

by the people... of the people... and... gasp for the people? oh heavens no.

«sarcastically shudders»

That is the government, not the economy. Socialism is the economy.

a reply to: DexterRiley

How many years ago?

Public schools began their decline about the time the US Dept. of Ed. began their meddling taking away local control.

originally posted by: DexterRiley

The public school system in the US these days is a mess. However that was not always the case. Years ago when I graduated from High School I had a top notch public education.

People keep saying this.

But, I'm finding public school far more demanding today then a few years ago.

What is expected in first grade now blows me away. Its all academic. There's very little in nonsense peripherals.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I would suggesta good mix of chartered schools and private schools.

Interesting idea. I know there has been a movement in government toward school vouchers. Many families with deserving children, who are unable to pay for private schools, could make good use of that benefit.

I believe the "superior mind" should be nurtured. Kids that demonstrate intellectual ability above and beyond that of their peers should be exposed to more challenging material.

You mention private and chartered schools. Would there be no public schools? There are certain segments of the population that would never attend school unless they were forced to do so.

-dex

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: DexterRiley

The American public school system is a good example of a nearly 100% socialized system.

So is the US military.

~Tenth

Its members volunteer for that, and can opt out once their contract has expired, or opt to re-enlist.

a reply to: maplecustom

Status quo bias

Status quo bias is an emotional bias; a preference for the current state of affairs. The current baseline (or status quo) is taken as a reference point, and any change from that baseline is perceived as a loss. Status quo bias should be distinguished from a rational preference for the status quo ante, as when the current state of affairs is objectively superior to the available alternatives, or when imperfect information is a significant problem. A large body of evidence, however, shows that status quo bias frequently affects human decision-making. Status quo bias interacts with other non-rational cognitive processes such as loss aversion, existence bias, endowment effect, longevity, mere exposure, and regret avoidance. Experimental evidence for the detection of status quo bias is seen through the use of the reversal test. A vast amount of experimental and field examples exist. Behavior in regard to retirement plans, health, and ethical choices show evidence of the status quo bias.

The corruption and the failure to eliminate poverty is the problem with the so-called "Socialist" governments.

Seems no candidates anywhere are introducing any feasible solutions.

All based on petty jealousy and nit-picky micro-managing.

I've seen general plans that might actually work in the U.S., but no "candidates" are proposing.