Dutch town riots over asylum centre plan

a reply to: Malynn

I know what I said. Clearly you are not responding to the arguments I used to back up my suspicions, but I don't think you have the mental capacity to understand.

Better stick to looking pretty and cooking fo your husband.

a reply to: Malynn

I personally like looking at scullys mameries, but hardboils avatar is very very strange and obnoxiously so, but the interaction between you two has been relatively entertaining. You are good by me in my book anyway.

a reply to: TechniXcality

hardboils avatar is very very strange and obnoxiously so,

I pegged you as a guy hat would be into that sort of thing.......

So can you explain why mine is obnoxious and strange and hers isn't?

I personally like looking at scullys mameries,

Off course, you think I don't like boobies?

The point is, would she stand out to you as a poster without the boobies in your face?

a reply to: HardBoiled

are you insinuating i am some kind of homosexual? Seriously brother attack all the respected members on ATS garners you zero respect, when you shoot ad-homs constantly.

it doesn't matter it is a silly argument regardless

a reply to: TechniXcality

Ah come on, I bet you crack smartass jokes like that all the time with your buddies. I don't have any problem with any kind of homosexual at all. Men can be very attractive.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrgYou should send an alert to the mods.

You really DO believe in the punishment system, do you? Like - I, the better one, will have to punish you, the lesser one?

Well, surprise. I'm an anarchist. I do not believe in the punishement system. The only punishment that can be brought upon you is what you do to yourself.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Does it not have a particular stink to it that the "upperclass" countries like Switserland and some whealthy arab countries are exempted from taking in refugees..?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Then don't whine.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
Paranoid? Read this example.(google translate)

KAATSHEUVEL - Police in Kaatsheuvel keeps people who call to protest against the arrival of asylum seekers strictly monitored. With three people already " entered into a conversation." A fourth police busy. " We do not want to touch freedom of speech, but we do indicate when it goes too far. ''

www.bd.nl...

This is my country nowadays. Police harassing people that call for protest.

People who said nothing that is illegal.


You don't see anything fishy about these sleeper cell members entering the thread getting all personal asking weird questions. Off course you don't. I already said why you wouldn't get it.

And to add,

" To call upon people to come, is not punishable. But calls for example to put something on fire though are. ' ' Van Hooijdonk emphasizes that there has not been such an incident of inciting violence. "But we say to these people : keep it calm , do not get carried away by emotions and don't let it get out of hand . ''

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrgThis was after the plice started hitting people that were just standing there. What you say is not supported by the 20 min footage I posted.

The police was lined up BEHIND the fences that were put there earlier that day. They did not hit "innocent" people, the hit people that were behind the fenceline - after having overrun the fence. They were throwing heavy fireworks, bottles and stones at the police. I don't blame them for hitting your "innocent" people. Also, please note that in my country, the people are very aware of their rights: if the police hits somebody without proper reason, complaints will be filed. Nobody complained.

While you're all expressing your feelings about the immigrants, let me take the time to adress that other matter again. The fact that the act of "protesting" or "striking" is getting assaulted bit by bit. The full video of what transpired has been posted here. If you haven't seen it for whatever reason, I suggest you do.

www.youtube.com...

In my honest opinion this whole situation was handled in the worst way possible. On top of that the MSM yet again got a little more ammo in their fight against our fundamental democratical right to protest.

The atmosphere was reasonably peacefull, safe for some fence-pushing and some firecrackers going off. Nothing near as serious as a saturday night of 1st class football. Fences which I might add that shouldn't even have been there, they are a prime target for any easily inflammable protester as they are a moveable toy barrier that represents an insult to his/her freedom. That and it just looks off if you fence in a supposedly public building like a city-hall.

Around 5 minutes in you can see police-officers starting to push a crowd of people that were reluctantly already moving back but were stopped by the young guys rattling the fence. Sadly the camera pans away at this time but what it does show is that the flow of people was blocked at that time, so starting to push the front line protesters would only incite more irritation.

5:40 then. Excessive force would be a good description. As you can see the power-tripping dog handler is slapping a woman for no justifiable reason. The older gentleman gallantly jumps in to the rescue. Some other policemen are unjustifiably slap-happy too whilst pushing the crowd back. Any normal human being would get mad at observing this, let alone being on the receiving end of the saucisse. Things naturally heat up a bit after this but calm down pretty soon again too.
After another cut we see the ME's arrive in their armored vehicles. We can see a fairly calm crowd with a lot of people filming with their cellphones. Other then some 10 to 20 young guys that are having the time of their lives being cool with the hoodies on, rattling some fences and throwing some firecrackers this crowd is made up of normal people of all ages, men, women and children alike.

11:45 We now see the ME's starting to slap people in order to hold their ground, which was not called for at all. These were not hooligans picking a fight with the pigs, these were honest people standing their ground expressing their concern with a certain situation. We then see the ME's happily swinging their sticks to create a bufferzone between them and the crowd. More lash-outs against people just standing there.

14:30 Another very crucial moment. Warning shots fired in the air. I do not see any reason why these shots were being fired. If anyone can clarify this for me I'd be gratefull. This is no matter to take lightly, anyone with military or law-enforcement training would agree with me I think. I'm genuinly perplexed at this so this is a genuine question.

15:15 then, this is the real turning point. An over-excited lone woman gets pummeled in the face so as would be expected all hell breaks lose.

Sadly enough it is this minute that is being shown in newscasts, without the woman being hit by the ME offcourse. This along with some of the images from the first part of the video toppling the fence. I've seen the press-conference the day after and ms mayor was singing the "we must condone violence" mantra before every other sentence she spoke. The chief of police was also very very proud of his corps to have handled it all so well.

Why did ms mayor not adress her people in person, as opposed to running away like a weasel. Why close off city-hall even if you suspect this many people are going to show up. What message does this send to the people that elected her and feel like they have to voice their opinion, only to show up to be stopped by fences and police hostility. Sure it would have been chaotic, but a democratical thing to do in this case for example would be to postpone the meeting, inform everyone present and work out some kind of bigger conference to let concerned citizens have their say. Don't even try to say this is not the way things work. It's a small community and it's not every day people feel strong enough to take to the streets for something. This just shows once again how out of touch politics are. That and/or underlying motives, as was shown earlier in this thread.

To me this all is nothing short of a farce. All kinds of conclusions can be drawn out of this, but one of the saddest ones is that most people will have only picked up the images from the MSM portraying this whole ordeal wrongly.
The last decade or so has seen a steep increase in limitations and regulations on protests. I'd even go as far as to say striking is viewed by many people as a bad and inconvenient thing. Every strike gets portrayed by the media as an unwillingness of people to work, causing discomfort (eg railroad or airport strikes) to us. Every protestmarch they try to find some notion of violence just so they can relay the whole focus on that instance of violence. Police is always in the right, even when in many cases it is blatantly obvious that they were the match that lit the fire. Over here in Belgium we've had our share of protests the last couple years, each and every one of them has been demonized by the media and has been used in favor of putting new limitations on where, how and when we can do our protesting.

This really unsettles me.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Malynn

I personally like looking at scullys mameries, but hardboils avatar is very very strange and obnoxiously so, but the interaction between you two has been relatively entertaining. You are good by me in my book anyway.

I'm not seeing an avatar for HardBoiled - did it get removed or is my 'net connection playing up yet again?

wow,:

Racism - police haters-police sympathizers- political know it alls-pointless rants, good points-horribly stupid ideas and comments.

this thread has it all. !
wonderfully good pointless read.

a reply to: MrCrow

I removed it, it was a guy in his underwear.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Why is it a pointless read?

What racism are you talking about? I did not see one single instance of racism.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Well, surprise. I'm an anarchist.

Pfff, anarchist my ass.

More like a conformist. You are the first anarchist ever sticking up for riot police actions of which even other cops agree were out of line.

Who starred that ridiculous poser post. Idiots no doubt.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrgPfff, anarchist my ass.

Well, I grant you that Anarchist and Ass both start with and A, so far so good.

More like a conformist. You are the first anarchist ever sticking up for riot police actions of which even other cops agree were out of line.

What I will tell you now will probably amaze you: anarchism is not about winning. It's about being able to loose. Hence a true anarchist can strike you as a conformist, as he can bend, can loose, but still defend his values honourably and with dignity. Actually, anarchism teaches us how to be honourable loosers and accept the mishap that we will eventually turn out to be winners due to it!

Now, you're clearly not an anarchist. You are here to make YOUR point, and if we disagree, you become aggressive and accusative. Also, some of your utterings make me believe that you are still quite young - and younger people are less experienced and tend to believe that there are "simple solutions". There aren't. Every change in human environments - be they virtual or concrete - seems to require a battle. I prefer that to be a battle of words.

What went wrong in Geldermalsen is clear: on both "sides" we had people that were there to battle. If you bring guns, fireworks, fences, bottles and stones, you are not there to peacefully discuss. You are there to hurt others and by doing so inflame the sentiments - not the arguments - of others. Not good.

Who starred that ridiculous poser post. Idiots no doubt.

Now, see, that's the problem: you don't respect your opposition. They aren't idiots as long as they have arguments. Only those that have an opinion without having arguments are idiots.

Learn to loose. I did so a long time ago and it really helps.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

What ever you say....loser.

What a load of empty drivel. Spoken like a true self proclaimed invertibrate.

Now hop along Mr. I am an anarchist.

originally posted by: BalansWhile you're all expressing your feelings about the immigrants, let me take the time to adress that other matter again. The fact that the act of "protesting" or "striking" is getting assaulted bit by bit.

Indeed. Alas, mostly not by the police, but by the braindead fools that carry heavy-duty fireworks and bring stones and bottles to make their point.

In my honest opinion this whole situation was handled in the worst way possible. On top of that the MSM yet again got a little more ammo in their fight against our fundamental democratical right to protest.

I have been (and will be) involved with socialist politics in my country and I can assure you that at least "my" party is trying everything they can to mobilise the population. But it proves to be harder and harder. In the 1980s we had hundreds of thousands of people marching to The Hague to protest against cruise missiles. Nowadays, you're happy with 5000, and the problems we have today are far worse than in the 1980s.

Most of our people still have an opinion, but they now type it in into a browser window.

Over here in Belgium we've had our share of protests the last couple years, each and every one of them has been demonized by the media and has been used in favor of putting new limitations on where, how and when we can do our protesting.

This really unsettles me.

Can you give me some examples of those limitations? I am simply curious, as I am not aware of any laws in at least my country (The Netherlands) that restrict the right to strike.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Can you give me some examples of those limitations? I am simply curious, as I am not aware of any laws in at least my country (The Netherlands) that restrict the right to strike.

What about the police harassing people that call for protest. I posted the proof of this several times and you completely ignored it.

I have been (and will be) involved with socialist politics in my country and I can assure you that at least "my" party is trying everything they can to mobilise the population. But it proves to be harder and harder. In the 1980s we had hundreds of thousands of people marching to The Hague to protest against cruise missiles. Nowadays, you're happy with 5000, and the problems we have today are far worse than in the 1980s.

With the PvdA or the SP. One is mainly responsible for the destruction of our country and the other one stood by while having a big mouth.

You old hippy. Times have changed.


And what are you trying to mobilise. Sofar you have not shown any sign of opposition to the situation that our government is pushing on us. I only see you downplaying the general sentiment and sticking up for police. What are you talking about?

What is your party doing to mobilise people and for what? I would love to know.

Now, you're clearly not an anarchist.

And I never claimed I was either.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrg

What ever you say....loser.

What a load of empty drivel. Spoken like a true self proclaimed invertibrate.

Now hop along Mr. I am an anarchist.

Now, let's see: where is your argument? WHY is what I say a "load of empty drivel"? Also, I haven't proclaimed myself to be an invertebrate, that would be factually incorrect. Did you know, by the way, that having an exoskeleton is often seen as superiour to having vertebrae? Also, your last line strikes me as somewhat odd: why would I do that, given that you still have so much to teach me?