Dutch town riots over asylum centre plan

a reply to: HardBoiled

Lol great comeback dude

Have a star

a reply to: bonesymphony

So how does it feel to betray your own people?

a reply to: HardBoiled

Dude just check the demographic changes over the last 50 years. We are a land of immigrants, always have been. Remember the french protestants fleeing persecution. The hugenoten? Part of the golden age of our country and such.

In modern times we have happily brought over immigrants to do the low skill low paying jobs, so we could do things we liked more without having our economy getting of balance by wages getting to high. For these people would work longer for less.

And if you take all the different people all over the world that have moved to the Netherlands. You will see that a large majority has successfully integrated. Understanding and contributing to our societies, whilst at the same time maintaining their own cultural heritage as is their right. Because you probably do not have much problems with the Chinese restaurants, and the Indian Delhi's, the Suriname take out. The Turkish pizza ect ect. Places like Amsterdam are wonderful melting pots between so many varied people. The exchange students love it... haha.

I hear their are quite a few educated Syrians coming our way as well. I enthusiastically await the contributions they will make to our economy.

I have so many friends from so many different backgrounds. We actually have a poker group. A dutch boy ( me ), A half indonesian, A tunisan and a chinese fellow, sometimes a surinamer chick. A wonderfull bunch. I had a fiesty Marocan model living above my previous living space, also lived together with an Iranian political refugee who was studying hard and contributing to our metal industry. University students from Afghanistan. The Turks bussy with selling furniture. The list goes on and on and on and on. People just living their lives, having a job, having a social life, completely in harmony with western society.

You know, dutch culture is not even that interesting. Its old and dusty. What do you want to preserve. Old windmills don't worry they are on the UNESCO. Tulips? Buisness is good. Big exporter of flowers? Cheese all good. Volendam? Tourism will keep that going. Last I checked the beautiful city centers of Amsterdam, Harlem, Alkmaar, Hoorn. Still there. I never found The Hauge, Utrecht, or Rotterdam appealing to begin with. So what do you want to preserve? Old Amsterdamers you curse every 7 words in a cute manner? do not worry the jordaan blijft bestaan..... haha. Or do you want the political bettutteling of Norms and values to stay high in our minds, come on...... Andre Hazes..... Frans bouwer, need I go on?
What cultural integrity do you mean.

A lot can happen in 2 generations..... and meh native dutch people may indeed become a minority, so what? If most of the people did not take on our way of life the social fabric would have broken down a long long time ago. Who we are as a nation has always changed. We as a people are in a better position to stand our ground in this ever globalizing world, because we have such a varied populace. Problems occur when very large groups that think and feel very much the same way come together at one spot and start putting pressure on local politics. We have that at some places, but all in all its within reason ability.

Well dire straits is such a relative view is it not? Yes the welfare state is slowly being reformed to something the establishment considers financially manageable, but you can blame stock market crashes and debt crisis, and to big to fail for that. Not immigration legal or otherwise. Considering the circumstances we are fairing well enough. It could be a lot worse a lot lot worse.

You are being very dramatic. Ever considered theater as a career choice?
There is poverty and their are many social economic problems. Lets let the economists and politicians for better or worse do their work to sort such things out oke?

Reality will not change just because you are angry.
Look I know your scared that our country will impoverish, but we have always pulled through as a people. Have faith that we will pull through this process as well. Together. Of course things could be better, but we have one of the best infrastructures in the world. Everything we can not solve with money we will solve with community.

Things will be fine, breath relax.

Kind Regards.

a reply to: GamleGamle

A lot can happen in 2 generations..... and meh native dutch people may indeed become a minority, so what?

I rest my case. Enemy of the Dutch people and culture.

Well dire straits is such a relative view is it not? Yes the welfare state is slowly being reformed to something the establishment considers financially manageable, but you can blame stock market crashes and debt crisis, and to big to fail for that. Not immigration legal or otherwise.

The point right now is that we don't have the money to take care of these refugees. How can you not acknowledge this.

a reply to: HardBoiled

Well the people have spoken have they not Mr Hardboiled. We have a collective responsibility. We have chosen our elected leaders. Democratically. If we as a people had chosen differently, maybe things would have been different, but they are not. Considering how many people are either not native dutch or not in line with your thinking. I guess there are a whole lot of traitors in the Netherlands huh?

So yes in a way we as the citizenry should bare the consequences of the choices of our elected leaders. Doesn't mean we can not try to improve our lot in life, but just saying that we are victims is a stretch indeed.

I honestly believe that you must be very lonely if you think so rigidly, stamping me an enemy. Well its our country. We are countrymen. Deal with it. When democracy is broken you go the courts. That is exactly why that system is in place.

Kind Regards

a reply to: GamleGamle

Well the people have spoken have they not Mr Hardboiled. We have a collective responsibility. We have chosen our elected leaders. Democratically. If we as a people had chosen differently, maybe things would have been different, but they are not.

Complete BS. Just because some parties got voted in doesn't mean they represent the will of the people right now, and you must be aware that right now, in the polls, Geert Wilders PVV is the biggest party, so clearly people don't agree with the current government.

Your trust in the democratic process is childishly naive. You really believe that once voted in they should have free reign for 4 years?

We are countrymen.

No we are not. No traitor deserves such a title. You are not my countryman.

Seeing this makes me ashamed to be Dutch.
We owe our wealth to plunder and robbery of other nations and still to this day profit from our colonial savagery. These people have no sense of history or humanity and to those who claim these people have a "backbone to stand up against their government": these are low-class racists who DO NOT represent the Dutch opinion on refugees.

Wow, the blatant anti Dutch "real Dutchmen" are coming out of the woodworks.

I hope people see what's going on here.

Like I said, the thread got noticed.

a reply to: HardBoiled

Don't have the money.......... we can pull money out of our asses for as long as we need to. We can print money out of thin air. We can leverage our economy to the extremes in racking up debt....... we are in the center of EU power influence sphere. Nothing can touch us unless the fabric of society disintegrates.... or a super power decides to invade us.....
I mean it does not matter much anyway, growth expectations will never ever exceed our debt expansion anymore as long as the current system is in place as it is.

Be afraid be very afraid of income inequality perpetuated by the rich and powerful and the dumb and ignorant.

Kind Regards

a reply to: GamleGamle

Don't have the money.......... we can pull money out of our asses for as long as we need to.

So the elderly get no care and children live in poverty because they simply don't want to help them? I mean since therre is enough money to spend. Wow, that is even worse.

We can print money out of thin air.

We? The ECB can. The fact that they can print money out of thin air alone is enough to raise a giant red flag, and part of the problem.

a reply to: HardBoiled

Firstly, for better or worse, the government theoretically does represent the will of the people.
And as much as I know how jaded things are, how undemocratic things truly are...... you have to think what am I going to do about it? Are you going to walk into the government buildings and start shooting up the place??? A revolution of sorts..... I have a life mantra, if you are not willing to spend your blood, sweat and tears into something, then its better to keep your peace.

Join or start any movement you wish to propagate your agenda...... and if it is valid if you have what it takes, people will follow you...... if not, no sense worrying about it.... Hakuna Matata.

Oh polls are just that polls. Fear always does well with the populace for a while.... until things do not really get better, then the infighting begins. Did you know PVV political structure is a dictatorship, with good old Geert as the only one calling the shots? Is that your kind of thing.

You know for all your name calling, if we go definition wise, I think you get much closer to what classically is considered a traitor to his country.

PS. Ah we agree on something, that money printing is a big issue that should be addressed. Yai !

Kind Regards

a reply to: GamleGamle

If people want to see government agents bait a concerned citizen, then read above post.

I think the EU is making a really bad move with the immigration of these people. Honestly I think the Dutch are justified with the protest. If the mass of invading immigrants remain grouped together, they swamp the local governments, voted themselves into office and take over whatever turf they occupy. Seems to be their way of exploiting a weakness in a local democratic government. When large groups of people migrate, they change the landscape and things will never be the same. Why the Muslim nations did not take in the refugees from the beginning is beyond me. And how might this mass immigration effect Europe's tourism?

Unchecked immigration is real threat, and if Islam can do this, they what about the Chinese or Indians. What if China had some major incident in one of the larger cities and a few million of them migrate, then rather than assimilate they remain autonomous and isolated and it becomes Chinatown in any country in the world. They should be required to adopt the host nations cultures, rather than imposing their cultures on the host nation. And why is multi-culturalism a good thing?

a reply to: HardBoiled

I think you ascribe a little to much importance to yourself here......
In all honesty your posts hardly deserve the time and care that I put in mine as far as I am concerned, but I used our little mud pit brawl for what I thought would be educational exposition for other interested viewers who might frequent this thread.

You know I am not angry at you, although I could be.... I hope that you will find that everything will turn out less bad than you might think or at least it will come from a different place than you might expect. I wish for you the peace of mind you seem to be needing, that you are surrounded by friends and family that care for you and will support you in anything you need to live and prosper in our shared country. I pray that you do not do anything reckless that you would later regret in life.

Kind Regards

a reply to: HardBoiled

Common sense doesn't make you "anti-Dutch".

Your reaction to people who disagree with you is the same ignorant mindset that makes it impossible to have a civilised conversation about controversial topics. It's why Fortuyn got demonised, it's why everybody who sympathises with refugees is called a "gutmensch". Sickening to the core, and you're displaying the same attitude which is driving this country into different camps.

a reply to: GamleGamle

I pray that you do not do anything reckless that you would later regret in life.

Wth? Why would you even say or think such a thing?

a reply to: IofRa

It's why Fortuyn got demonised, it's why everybody who sympathises with refugees is called a "gutmensch". S

Great example. Let's ignore that Fortuyn got killed by a muslim sympathiser.

Your reaction to people who disagree with you is the same ignorant mindset that makes it impossible to have a civilised conversation about controversial topics.

It is gutmenschen like you that make it impossible to have a realistic discussion about real problems because you are to busy selling out your country and countrymen with your pathological desire to be seen as a gutmensch.

a reply to: mapsurfer_

I can say this much the EU dropped the ball in thinking that it could be tackled as a group, and finding out that wasn't the case. They also underestimated the situation sure enough. Merkel may have said some things that although admirable could definitely attract the wrong crowd. The numbers Germany is absorbing is absolutely staggering and will undoubtedly cause a cultural change. True enough. At some point Germany would have needed these immigrants, but not like this in one feel swoop.

In the particularities for dutch legislation are rules and regulations that will try to mitigate the concern that you are bringing up. Wow that sounds very official, I must be a gov agent.

The fact that the rich Muslim nations did not do more to help their brethren is a travesty. It just shows how deeply corrupt these nations are.... they bring shame to Islam and all its followers. Another reason why EU has incurred this. We are so cozzy and accepting of the Arab nations acting like they do, because of the oil and gas and geopolitical intrigue of the region. It is a great tragedy. So you have a fair point their in my opinion.

Tourism will suffer, do not think so much in the Netherlands, but EU overall, very probable, but the flow will tapper down at some point and normalcy will hopefully resume. It is difficult to say what the future holds.

Unchecked immigration is a real threat agreed. It is being checked more and more.

Just to point out, not all refugees are Muslim or even Arab for that matter. There coming from all over nowadays. Although still predominantly Syrian and Eritrean.

Large scale emigration of Indians and Chinese is highly unlikely. Their respective countries have still a lot of growth in them for the coming 2 to 3 decades however clunky. As long as their is growth their is little incentive to move.... Even if their were to happen a great cataclysm. It would be a far more difficult journey for them to come to Europe. Many many would fail.

As for multiculturalism. Of course migrants should assimilate into the main culture of their host country, at the same time we should be accommodating to their culture as well. I would say a 60 to 40 percent exchange in our favor. Why is this good you ask? Because the world will only become more connected over the next century and who knows how connected after that. The idea of isolated nation states that can set policy separate from global affairs is mute and destined to the dust bin of history. It is impossible. Unless you would like to be like Iran or North Korea, or US in the depression era. Ect Ect Ect.

Kind Regards

a reply to: HardBoiled

Because to me in my humble opinion you seem to be a relatively unbalanced personality with a lot of resentments, but most of the time as long as they are kicking and screaming on ATS they do not do anything crazy. Fair enough.

Peace be with you.

a reply to: GamleGamle

Better keep an eye on me then. Oh wait, this was already happening for quite some time. So what did you get out of it?

Nothing.