Dutch town riots over asylum centre plan

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Wow, what a pathetic cop out. How very typical of you.

You claimed that you and your party were trying to mobilise people. I asked you several times how you were doing this and for what cause.

How would an answer to either of these questions violate the T&C. Complete nonsense.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4DawnMost people don't want the laws changed to favor a culture that they don't embrace, and I have to admit that I am one of them. If I go to your country, I adhere to your laws, especially if I decide I want to become a citizen of your country.

So, we agree. And once you are a citizen of my country you will have the right to vote. And if there are sufficient people that vote to change the Law, and after much debate and proceedings - the Law will change.

Yes: if the majority of the people decide that it is legal to smoke pot - it's legal. If the majority of the people decide that it is legal to be married to somebody of the same sex - it's legal. If the majority of the people decide that woman should not be allowed to vote - it's suddenly illegal for women to vote again (!). If the majority of the people thinks that somebodies hand should be chopped off when he steals a loaf of bread - it's how it will be done in a democracy (!). If you don't like democracy, by all means, say so. But that's how it is ..

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Yes: if the majority of the people decide that it is legal to smoke pot - it's legal. If the majority of the people decide that it is legal to be married to somebody of the same sex - it's legal. If the majority of the people decide that woman should not be allowed to vote - it's suddenly illegal for women to vote again (!). If the majority of the people thinks that somebodies hand should be chopped off when he steals a loaf of bread - it's how it will be done in a democracy (!). If you don't like democracy, by all means, say so. But that's how it is ..

Omg, see how crazy these people are. Placing their ideal of democracy above all common sense. Surreal and utterly bizarre.

So, we agree. And once you are a citizen of my country you will have the right to vote. And if there are sufficient people that vote to change the Law, and after much debate and proceedings - the Law will change.

Translation, bring in the foreigners and let them vote and let them change our country from within and love the result, because it is democracy in all it's glory.

This is so disturbing, really.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

So, ForteanOrg.....

SP it is.....

i don't get how you can be into traditional Dutch windmills and at the same time be spewing your poison here.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Wow, what a pathetic cop out. How very typical of you.

You claimed that you and your party were trying to mobilise people. I asked you several times how you were doing this and for what cause.

How would an answer to either of these questions violate the T&C. Complete nonsense.

I tend to take the T&C seriously. Part of being an anarchist is to obey the rules that you agreed to.

So, I won't tell you who I am and you're not even allowed to ask it, I believe. Nor will I tell you for which party I work, but come on, how many Socialist parties are there in The Netherlands

I can tell you how it works in general terms: you ring doorbells, talk with people, organise meetings, man stands at markets, help people organise themselves, spread folders and newspapers, maintain websites, participate in other organisations work (e.g. labour unions etc.), organise peaceful demonstrations etc. You seek out talents and help them educate themselves.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

it's how it will be done in a democracy (!). If you don't like democracy, by all means, say so. But that's how it is ..

Again before I jump to any conclusions, I have to ask if you are aware of what you are saying is in lock step with the agenda of a radical group that is officially declared as a terrorist group in many countries?

We believe that the political reform is the true and natural gateway for all other kinds of reform. We have announced our acceptance of democracy that acknowledges political pluralism, the peaceful rotation of power and the fact that the nation is the source of all powers. As we see it, political reform includes the termination of the state of emergency, restoring public freedoms, including the right to establish political parties, whatever their tendencies may be, and the freedom of the press, freedom of criticism and thought, freedom of peaceful demonstrations, freedom of assembly, etc. It also includes the dismantling of all exceptional courts and the annulment of all exceptional laws, establishing the independence of the judiciary, enabling the judiciary to fully and truly supervise general elections so as to ensure that they authentically express people's will, removing all obstacles that restrict the functioning of civil society organizations, etc.

the Quran and Sunnah constitute a perfect way of life and social and political organization that God has set out for man. Islamic governments must be based on this system and eventually unified in a Caliphate. The goal, as stated -by this group- is to drive out British colonial and other Western influences, reclaim Islam's manifest destiny—an empire, stretching from Spain to Indonesia.The -group- preaches that Islam will bring social justice, the eradication of poverty, corruption and sinful behavior, political freedom (to the extent allowed by the laws of Islam).

Just asking?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Part of being an anarchist is to obey the rules that you agreed to.

What a complete joke.

a belief that government and laws are not necessary

a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

www.merriam-webster.com...


There you have it.

An extremely rare look at the anarchist politician. The only one in the world.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

So, I won't tell you who I am and you're not even allowed to ask it, I believe. Nor will I tell you for which party I work, but come on, how many Socialist parties are there in The Netherlands

I told you from the beginning it was either PvdA or SP. No need to tell me anything, I already identified you. Not that it matters. Also, I never asked you to identify yourself.

I can tell you how it works in general terms: you ring doorbells, talk with people, organise meetings, man stands at markets, help people organise themselves, spread folders and newspapers, maintain websites, participate in other organisations work (e.g. labour unions etc.), organise peaceful demonstrations etc. You seek out talents and help them educate themselves.

You were specifically refering to mobilising people. Against what?

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrgi don't get how you can be into traditional Dutch windmills and at the same time be spewing your poison here.

The poison of democracy? Or the poison of believing that our Police is actually not the Dark Force of Evil? Or the poison that in order to change something you have to get off your butt and DO something (other than posting here)? The poison of human egality, dignity and mutual help? if that's poison I'm Crippen!

Actually, being a miller and being an anarchist are totally complimentary. Both require spending a lot of time getting educated. Neither earns you money. Both involve putting others first. Both require a responsible person who is willing and able to accept others of all kinds. How is it that you see contradictions, I wonder?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

How is it that you see contradictions, I wonder?

Because windmills are as traditionally Dutch as it can get, yet you are here showing support to the dismantling of the same culture and people of this culture.


And regarding your delusions of being an anarchist, are there more of you. Like do you sit around in a group and talk about how anarchistic you are and agree with each other about it while visiting your SP meeting?

God this is Koefnoen material. Wth is going wrong in your mind thinking you are an anarchist? I mean, seriously guy.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Part of being an anarchist is to obey the rules that you agreed to.

What a complete joke.

a belief that government and laws are not necessary

a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

www.merriam-webster.com...


There you have it.

An extremely rare look at the anarchist politician. The only one in the world.

Actually, I totally agree with most of what the definitions you quoted say. Now, prey tell, what's the joke?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Actually, I totally agree with most of what the definitions you quoted say. Now, prey tell, what's the joke?

Really guy?

You are talking about adhering to the rules as an anarchist when anarchism in fact denounces laws. You are a political party member yet anarchists denounce any form of government.

I mean, wth are you thinking.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Anyways, I don't know how serious you are about your political career but I guarantee that if it is going somewhere that I will be informing people about your anti Dutch ideologies.

And believe me, I know of plenty of police officers that overstepped the line and were removed from the force - mostly because civilians filed a complaint. It works.

Can you somehow back up this statement please ?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg


Actually, I totally agree with most of what the definitions you quoted say. Now, prey tell, what's the joke?

The joke is that you seem to be under the impression that you are some kind of anarchist. Please, educate yourself on this subject as it looks a bit silly after reading your comments. Anarchism and Globalism do not work well together...


Furthermore, could you adress my previous response to you please. I know you're in a bit of a wordfight but it will hopefully show you that I don't make these things up.
It also seems rather weird to me that a man that claims to be involved in politics and rallying people would not know of any restrictions and laws that prohibit/limit protesting/striking. There's plenty of them in any country, you can't just decide to go on a major strike tomorrow, people have to be notified, official clearing needs to be given and all that. There are rules and regulations that must be followed or you are subject to lawfull prosecution.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Because windmills are as traditionally Dutch as it can get, yet you are here showing support to the dismantling of the same culture and people of this culture.

I don't think so. Did you know that -in as far as we can tell, of course- the first windmills weren't Dutch? There have been reports of mills as far ago as 2000 years, but we know the first reilable accounts we have today are those of Ahmad Y. al-Hassan in the ninth century, and these mills stood in Persia. So, if a Syrian refugee knocks at the door of my mill one day asking if he can be a miller, I will happily invite him in. He has the older rights

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrg
Because windmills are as traditionally Dutch as it can get, yet you are here showing support to the dismantling of the same culture and people of this culture.

I don't think so. Did you know that -in as far as we can tell, of course- the first windmills weren't Dutch? There have been reports of mills as far ago as 2000 years, but we know the first reilable accounts we have today are those of Ahmad Y. al-Hassan in the ninth century, and these mills stood in Persia. So, if a Syrian refugee knocks at the door of my mill one day asking if he can be a miller, I will happily invite him in. He has the older rights

Come on mate, focus up again. This is a really sillly spin. He wasn't talking about whom invented the windmill. He was talking about the tradition of them in Dutch culture. "Klompen" are a tradition too in the Netherlands, that doesn't mean they're invented there.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
Really guy?

Really

You are talking about adhering to the rules as an anarchist when anarchism in fact denounces laws. You are a political party member yet anarchists denounce any form of government.

Yes, and so wherein lies your issue? I am an anarchist, and working towards an anarchist society. I use various methods and tools to bring us nearer that goal. Socialism is actually close to anarchism as it at least recognises the equality of all men, their dignity and the need for mutual aid. As an anarchist I'm orderly and non-violent. Now, prey tell, do you see any better way to obtain my goals in a peaceful orderly way - but to join the socialist party? What would you suggest to do otherwise?

Another thing you dont' seem to understand is what I keep telling you: that an anarchist is a master of the art of gracefully loosing a battle. Our people are quite anarchistic by nature, hence I'm quite happy to live in the Netherlands. But I don't expect them to abolish our Government and its Laws as there are way too many non-anarchists around to spoil the fun might that happen. Hence I'm a practical anarchist, also known as "socialists". I will never win the battle, but I will die trying - using non-violent, orderly means. So, what is it you don't like about that?

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ForteanOrg

Anyways, I don't know how serious you are about your political career but I guarantee that if it is going somewhere that I will be informing people about your anti Dutch ideologies.

Scary stuff

originally posted by: Balans

And believe me, I know of plenty of police officers that overstepped the line and were removed from the force - mostly because civilians filed a complaint. It works.

Can you somehow back up this statement please ?

There are many examples. You seem to be Dutch, so I'll give you a few links to Dutch pages: This one, and this one, or this one. Or feast your eyes on this one.

For the others here: these are but a few examples of policemen being fired after a formal complaint was filed.

It also seems rather weird to me that a man that claims to be involved in politics and rallying people would not know of any restrictions and laws that prohibit/limit protesting/striking. There's plenty of them in any country, you can't just decide to go on a major strike tomorrow, people have to be notified, official clearing needs to be given and all that. There are rules and regulations that must be followed or you are subject to lawfull prosecution.

Not here. If I want to demonstrate, I can. I don't have to ask for permission either, though I am expected to register my intent with the authorities. Yes, some authorities think I should register 4 days in advance, but hey, sometimes I simply don't have the time so I will trust my government, call the police and go ahead. The police can never end a demonstration, only the Major can. If you want to read the rules, you may want to read this (dutch) Warning: that's a socialist site .

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

Not here. If I want to demonstrate, I can.

Let me start by saying I'm Belgian as I said earlier in the thread but you might have missed it so no worries. Admitted, it is both good and disturbing to see these representatives of the law punished for whatever crime they have committed. I do want to make it clear that I don't hate police. I know a bunch of them personally and they're good lads. They have their place in today's society and are more often then not good souls, but a lot of them are misguided. It's the misguided part that encompasses a lot of nasty stuff.


I don't really get why you say "Not here" when that link provides you with clear guidelines (rules/limitations) for a demonstration as it states:
That you have to report it in.
That the mayor can add restrictions and conditions, based on public health, traffic safety or public safety.
That extra restrictions count around embassies, governmental buildings, etc.
That the mayor can forbid it alltogether, based again on safety and health.
That police can ask for your ID and the paperwork on the demonstration itself.

Public safety and health can be interpreted in a wide range of scenario's so ultimately it's your mayor that decides wether you can or can not do your demonstrating. Add to that a bit of biased news covering and you have anything but freedom of protest.

Also again, what's your take on my previous reply ?