Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

a reply to: SBargisen

Which has what to do with anything I said?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Nothing. Meant to reply to the guy above you.

originally posted by: SBargisen
a reply to: CynConcepts

France, UK and Germany is ranked higher in military strength than Turkey, even though Turkey may have a larger active army.

Active and experienced is key! US learned this and recognizes that is strategically a necessity in foreign lands.
Turkey may have many undesirable qualities, but they are a huge asset in this region of the world.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: SBargisen

It's still Turkish airspace. They don't know if they're going to zip across it and go back out, turn and go deeper into Turkey or what. So the warnings start.

I'm not debating whether they were right or wrong, but no country is going to sit back and let another countries aircraft fly through their airspace without some kind of a challenge, especially with Turkish villages having been hit by fire from within Syria, and having at least one aircraft shot down by Syrian forces.

You are using politically correct arguments. You know Russia had no intentions of attaking Turkey With a single SU-24.

Trukey knows exactly what Russia are doing and to who.

a reply to: spy66

And they knew it was a Russian Su-24 from a blip on the radar screen? That's some radar system. The F-16s didn't have to get within visual range to fire a missile, so there was no reason to assume they identified it as anything but an aircraft from Syria coming to their territory.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: spy66

And they knew it was a Russian Su-24 from a blip on the radar screen? That's some radar system. The F-16s didn't have to get within visual range to fire a missile, so there was no reason to assume they identified it as anything but an aircraft from Syria coming to their territory.

Are you speaking on their behalf now?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: spy66

And they knew it was a Russian Su-24 from a blip on the radar screen? That's some radar system. The F-16s didn't have to get within visual range to fire a missile, so there was no reason to assume they identified it as anything but an aircraft from Syria coming to their territory.

Aren't these situations always fun.

Obviously there's some d!ckery going on here between them.

Turkey released their audio proof today. Garbled and very accented. I couldn't understand any of it and I'm sure many others felt the same. Regardless, that's what they released. Turkey: it's Russia's fault.

Russia and it's pilot say they didn't receive any contact. Both audio and visual. Along with other factors. Russia: it's Turkey's fault.

Only thing we know of 100% is the aircraft was shot down.

Any true level headed individual wouldn't trust either side until concrete undisputable facts are shown. Which may or may not materialize.

Having said that, I hope this gets deescalated quickly. Turkey doesn't plow across the border and no other incidents arise between them directly. But that's obviously easier said than done as both sides have agendas there.

Messy times are looking ahead.

look at the map. that finger of territory the russian was out of in 17 seconds and the path was parallel to the border obviously not ingressing deeper into syrian territory. 17 seconds- that means at 8.5 seconds the plane was heading out of syrian territory. that means the syrians shot at a plane that was outbound or in other words it was already complying with orders to leave syrian airspace. under identical circumstances no western nation's rules of engagement would allow more than a radar lock on.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

under identical circumstances no western nation's rules of engagement would allow more than a radar lock on.

But this is Putin's neck of the woods: the rules are different there.

i don't recall for sure but i think the only time russia did something like this (deliberately, and by thier own hands) it was way back and a plane had got off course and flew over the kamchatka peninsula which is the home of a number of secret military installations which are the russian equivalent of area 51. memory is fuzzy, but i think this happened- i could be imagining things though.

Bilal Erdogan, ISIS

Erdogans son - Bilal Erdogan, in this picture with leaders of ISIS & Nasra
so who created those terror groups?
answer is Erdogans turkey..

i hate the very notion of being forced into a position where i am forced to defend russia's actions. i think putin is an evil little bastard and is plotting the genocide and destruction of millions of americans and europeans at this very moment. I see no other plausible explanation for what he is doing with his nuclear forces (cobalt laced bombs and so on) and probing of Europe and American coastal areas. But Turkey acted foolishly here.

originally posted by: DJW001
But this is Putin's neck of the woods: the rules are different there.

Really?

The west has been complaining for the past weeks, that Russia is bombing "moderate" rebels.

Are you going to come and claim, openly ... that these "barbarians" which show no respect for Rules of engagement, nor any respect for human life, shooting down a pilot in his parachute. These aren't paramilitary, or "rebels" ... they're terrorists, which shun at nothing and then shoot a video of their crimes.

And Turkey, they just proved, publicly that they support terrorists. And, give a clear understanding, that they have their own "terrorists" in Syria, that are there for a Turkish agenda. Which makes them a plausible suspect for all other accusations against them, such as benefiting from ISIS oil deals and other black market dealing.

Russia, isn't going to do much about this ... probably because they are "playing" the cool, calm dealing for the benefit of the western world.

Of course they knew it was Russian.

They wouldn't dare shoot down a US, French or Australian jet if it strayed into their territory for 17seconds - and it could have been anyone of those countries jets as they are all fighting in Syria.

Obviously, they were waiting for Russia and fired on them the instant they got.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Russia, isn't going to do much about this ... probably because they are "playing" the cool, calm dealing for the benefit of the western world.

Really? I thought Russia was standing up to the western world.

a reply to: earthling42

OMG! A Turk standing next to Arabs with beards? That proves it! [/sarcasm]

originally posted by: DJW001
Really? I thought Russia was standing up to the western world.

That's what many "hope", but I believe Putin when he says he has no intention of "saving the world".

They just happen to be the "odd" fellow in the deal, and their agenda "aligned" with those who want to stand up to the western world. But don't expect that to be a permanent thingie.

However, their presence there does suggest a very serious point ... ISIS being a western stooge. If ISIS wasn't, they'd never have opposed Russia. Never have downed their plane ... they'd have used Russias presence as a political tactician. Instead, it appeared as Russias presence and opposing western agenda ... appeared to also oppose ISIS's agenda. Same applies for Turkey, if Turkey wasn't apart of the forces behind the "rebellion" in Syria, they'd never have downed the Russia jet fighter. All this states, and proves the russian point ... the "rebellion" isn't really a "rebellion", it's an insurgency of foreign interests.

we have videos i could post here, how turks behaved to the dead pilot. They tight him up behind a vehicle and they made a tour... u know.. like a trophy.

but its not for sensitive eyes videos, to be honest, I saw only a couple of seconds and then closed it. So its not appropriate for forums. Its not only why and how cool it is to gunfire a pilot in a parachute, but also how they behaved after that. The videos I saw, dont differ from the animalistic videos we see all these time with isis punishments or rapes.


I wonder if there is news about returning the dead body back to russians.

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: SBargisen
a reply to: CynConcepts

France, UK and Germany is ranked higher in military strength than Turkey, even though Turkey may have a larger active army.

Active and experienced is key! US learned this and recognizes that is strategically a necessity in foreign lands.
Turkey may have many undesirable qualities, but they are a huge asset in this region of the world.

They may have many undesirable qualities, but hey they are a huge asset.
Thats US foreign policy in a nutshell. And the reason the current quagmire exists.

Lets build up the taliban to fight the russians in Afghanistan. - oh no, the taliban turned into AQ.

Ok let us support Iraq to fight Iran - oh no Hussein has become to Powerful with our support. But hey, a reason for another war.

Let s support 'moderate rebels' to get Assad. Upps the 'moderate rebels' are islamic terrorists.
But let us still support them, because they are against the russians, and thats where we started.

We all know that everyone involved in this Syrian conflict has their own personal bias interests irregardless of coalitions and contracts. They all share how they want to assist, but obviously everyone has their own unique perception on what they believe the best outcome would be. I don't dislike any nations leader at this point, I understand they are attempting to do what they feel is best for their own nation or leadership's best interests. Unfortunately, that means chaos in the current events. Syria has skyrocketed out of control as a symbolic power play of strength in the region. I can only pray that more diplomatic minds will meet and resolve this, allowing all's egos to suffer minor bruising. There will not be a win-win by this continued violence.