Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

a reply to: majesticgent

Because MAD doesn't make sense, is because it will destroy us all, which is why a country deploying nukes over another country makes sense. The country with the balls to do this, will be feared by all.

- The man you should fear the most, is the man that fears nothing.


Look at it this way; If, and only if, Russia decides to nuke Turkey, what would the rest of the world do? Nuke back? No, most likely not. Since that would end with MAD. As you said, it doesn't make sense. They would probably end up making sanctions on Russia.

Let's say MAD occurs. Some will live in their nuclear fallout shelters, and humanity will go on like this. They will come up in a couple of years when radiation isn't as bad as when it fell. (I know. It has a long half-life (Or what it's called in english? My second language. Sorry.) Rebuilding might begin after this.

- Does either scenario make sense? Probably not. Is it illogical? Probably. Is it implausible? Nah.

originally posted by: 0 x 0
a reply to: SBargisen

It's much more likly Russia would use their TOS-1A thermobaric missles on a Turkish army coming at the .. it's supposedly has been deployed Syria.

That's a nice weapon. And I agree, this makes more sense than nukes.

Russia has been the instigator in the past but as people have pointed out here, Russia was in Turkey - even by the Turkish propaganda - 10 to 15 seconds so how did the Turks warn the Russian pilot 10 times? So the fallout - I agree that Europe won't support Turkey (France in particular who want to go after ISIS may actually get closer to Russia after this incidence) and as for the UK - why join the coalition in Syria when the risks from "friendlies" is so high?

And the most frustrating part - the UK could make a real difference against ISIS through the banks, sanctioning/freezing the funds of the people who pay rolling ISIS. War is not cheap.

a reply to: templar knight

Because they don't sit and wait and suddenly go, "Oh look! They're in our airspace!" Warnings start before they enter the airspace, when it's obvious they're heading towards it. The idea is to warn them prior to entering the airspace and preventing an incident.

originally posted by: Ploutonas
Turkey says that this convoy had aid like food and pasta... but since when food makes black smoke... :p

When the truck fuel burns?

Apparently the jet was shot down by Turkmen rebels who have been supporting the Syrian rebels against Al-Assad. They are tacitly but unofficially supported by Turkey's leadership, so the war-by-proxy has now really begun. As we know, Russia is blatantly supporting Al-Assad, and most of Russia's airstrikes have been against the Syrian rebels, not Da'esh.

www.timesofisrael.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: templar knight

Because they don't sit and wait and suddenly go, "Oh look! They're in our airspace!" Warnings start before they enter the airspace, when it's obvious they're heading towards it. The idea is to warn them prior to entering the airspace and preventing an incident.

Still. It allegedly, given that Turkey isn't lying, was a patch of 2.6 km land. Which at slowest speed, would take 17 seconds to cross.

originally posted by: seekerfirst
Apparently the jet was shot down by Turkmen rebels who have been supporting the Syrian rebels against Al-Assad. They are tacitly but unofficially supported by Turkey's leadership, so the war-by-proxy has now really begun. As we know, Russia is blatantly supporting Al-Assad, and most of Russia's airstrikes have been against the Syrian rebels, not Da'esh.

www.timesofisrael.com...

No. The jets were shot down by turkish F16's, and the pilots were shot at in air, in their parachutes by cowardice turkmen.

a reply to: SBargisen

It's still Turkish airspace. They don't know if they're going to zip across it and go back out, turn and go deeper into Turkey or what. So the warnings start.

I'm not debating whether they were right or wrong, but no country is going to sit back and let another countries aircraft fly through their airspace without some kind of a challenge, especially with Turkish villages having been hit by fire from within Syria, and having at least one aircraft shot down by Syrian forces.

a reply to: SBargisen

One pilot was. The other was rescued.

Turkish media releases alleged warning radio.

Sound quality and accent is so bad that i can t really make out what is said.

Plus the file is only 2mins, which contradicts the 'warned for more than 5min' statement:

haber.dha.com.tr...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah well. Going after the Russian u24's well past the turkish borders and inside the Syrian airspace doesn't add up. The U24 got hit 1 km inside of Syrian airspace. According to the turks.

If they absolutely had to do this, it would be INSIDE Turkey's airspace. I would completely understand, if Putin kills alot of turkish people. I would.

originally posted by: svetlana84
Turkish media releases alleged warning radio.

Sound quality and accent is so bad that i can t really make out what is said.

Plus the file is only 2mins, which contradicts the 'warned for more than 5min' statement:

haber.dha.com.tr...

Which we all kind of knew. But good find. Many things contradicts what the Turks are saying. I call bull# from their part.

originally posted by: svetlana84

originally posted by: CynConcepts
a reply to: Leonidas

Turkey isn't exactly a pawn in NATOs chess game. Being they are considered the second largest standing military force in NATO, after the United States Armed Forces U.S. Armed Forces, I think it would behoove NATO to not continue and support them.

What, Turkey the second largest military force? you must have forgotten UK, France and Germany (in that order).

Obviously you missed my original post on page 81. I will share again.

The Turkish Armed Forces collectively rank as the second largest standing military force in NATO, after the United States Armed Forces U.S. Armed Forces, with an estimated strength in 2015 of 639,551 military, civilian and paramilitary personnel.  Turkey is one of five NATO member states which are part of the nuclear sharing policy of the alliance, together with Belgium, Germany and weapons of mass destruction Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands and weapons of mass destruction Netherlands. A total of 90 B61 nuclear bombs are hosted at the Incirlik Air Base, 40 of which are allocated for use by the Turkish Air Force in case of a nuclear conflict, but their use requires the approval of NATO.

Source link:  Turkey Armed Forces

a reply to: CynConcepts

France, UK and Germany is ranked higher in military strength than Turkey, even though Turkey may have a larger active army.

a reply to: SBargisen

And Turkey has claimed a 5km buffer zone, so as far as they were concerned they were still in Turkish airspace.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You can't just claim land. Assad is the publically elected president of the country, whether the west likes that or not.
Turkey shooting down that U24 bomber, is a war declaration, no matter how you look at it. Turkey #ed up, there really isn't anything to say to that.

^ Land, buffer zones, airspace, who cares. It's all the same. Now Russia has a buffer zone well inside of Turkeys airspace.

a reply to: CynConcepts

Ah, i see, in manpower they are big (admitedly bigger than i rememberd.

I was referring to GFP: www.globalfirepower.com...

a reply to: SBargisen

I didn't say they were right, only that they did.

a reply to: Zaphod58

China has an amazingly large army.

But alright. With a population of over 1billion, they ought to.