Signature of The Creator. The Torah contains an ancient embedded "Security Code".

a reply to: glend

the reason that Deuteronomy is slightly different is because traditionally Deuteronomy was Moses's prophetic Farewell address. It was said to take place on the last day of his life. Being such, it is somewhat different yet the same.
Like man being the world writ small and such

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: glend

the reason that Deuteronomy is slightly different is because traditionally Deuteronomy was Moses's prophetic Farewell address. It was said to take place on the last day of his life. Being such, it is somewhat different yet the same.
Like man being the world writ small and such

The code should have started Det 1 not 5 so the checksum is telling us that Det 1-4 has been added else the code be worthless. But if there is one code to guarantee authenticity of versus there are likely other checksums as well.

a reply to: dashen

Alright, i see what you are saying now. But you yourself said that equidistant letter sequencing was a known method of sending secret messages. The only thing this proves is that the torah is a contrived piece of literature. If this "watermark" serves any purpose, it is to make sure the text is not changed. There is no message to speak of, only a clear attempt of the author to secure the book as an authority. It does nothing to secure the book or any of it's contents as fact.

As Glend pointed out earlier, the first four verses in deuteronomy do not match up with this watermark. Clearly showing it is a more recent addition.

Now if the code revealed something of consequence, such as a working mathematical formula, or an undeniable prediction, it would be an amazing discovery worth some real speculation. But as it is simply a watermark, which we have several other examples of in history, this is simply a fun fact and worth little more than a footnote, or an ATS thread.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: dashen

Alright, i see what you are saying now. But you yourself said that equidistant letter sequencing was a known method of sending secret messages. The only thing this proves is that the torah is a contrived piece of literature. If this "watermark" serves any purpose, it is to make sure the text is not changed. There is no message to speak of, only a clear attempt of the author to secure the book as an authority. It does nothing to secure the book or any of it's contents as fact.

As Glend pointed out earlier, the first four verses in deuteronomy do not match up with this watermark. Clearly showing it is a more recent addition.

Now if the code revealed something of consequence, such as a working mathematical formula, or an undeniable prediction, it would be an amazing discovery worth some real speculation. But as it is simply a watermark, which we have several other examples of in history, this is simply a fun fact and worth little more than a footnote, or an ATS thread.

The earliest use of Pi was in Indian and Chinese manuscripts dated from 500 BC. We have fragments of the Torah from 600 BC.

So, it would appear that them crafty Hebrews knew of Pi 100 years (if not 1000's of years) before anyone else.

Or, in the case of the natural logarithm, that the Gospel writers knew of e 1,600 years (approximately) before Gregoire de Saint-Vincent and Alphonse Antonio de Sarasa discovered it.

To me, that is interesting and worthy of ATS discussion.

a reply to: chr0naut

Pi is not referenced though.

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: soulpowertothendegree

the code is there. for thousands of years at least. you cannot deny.
the authorship im willing to debate with you.

You would be wasting your time Dash. Like throwing pearls to swine.

a reply to: Woodcarver

So the fact that a book can survive intact, without missing any letters, for thousands of years, through thousands of copies despite great upheavals, exiles, wars and so on is not miraculous to you?
can you find another text ever written in the history of mankind that can claim the same.
Furthermore, this is one code of countless ones embedded in the text.
I chose to highlight this one because it is easy for even the most ignorant person to verify.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Well HERE is a hinted reference to pi in Solomon's Temple Design to the fourth decimal place.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
this is simply a fun fact and worth little more than a footnote, or an ATS thread.

Please...We all know how you just love (to hate) all things religious here on ATS.

You need these threads.

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: Woodcarver

So the fact that a book can survive intact, without missing any letters, for thousands of years, through thousands of copies despite great upheavals, exiles, wars and so on is not miraculous to you?

well if it has a checksum code attached to it, it makes it even less likely that supernatural powers are at work doesn't it? And more likely that a team of educated authors worked very hard to manufacture the book in such a way as to not only depict their own beliefs, but to make sure the check sum adds up? This is not an impossible task that would require supernatural intellect.

can you find another text ever written in the history of mankind that can claim the same.
Furthermore, this is one code of countless ones embedded in the text.
I chose to highlight this one because it is easy for even the most ignorant person to verify.

There are many books with this same ELS system. It is a known method of encrypting codes. Make another thread with another code and i will engage it there.

originally posted by: dashen
a reply to: Woodcarver

Well HERE is a hinted reference to pi in Solomon's Temple Design to the fourth decimal place.

Mathematics is an integral part of architecture. I would not be surprised if the temple builders knew it. Again, this doesn't do anything to verify a supernatural intellect.

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: Woodcarver
this is simply a fun fact and worth little more than a footnote, or an ATS thread.

Please...We all know how you just love (to hate) all things religious here on ATS.

You need these threads.

It's a hobby of mine to point out the failed attempts of logic which are all to commonly posted here on these boards. Just because i enjoy it doesn't mean i'm wrong.

The reason for the appearance of successive letters of Torah in every 50th letter is that 50 is the gematria number value of ELOHIM (Hebrew: ALHIM), the Godname assigned to Binah, the third member of the Supernal Triad of the Tree of Life (Otz Chiim) in Kabbalah. For hundreds of years, students of Kabbalah have miscalulated this sacred word to be 86. They did not realise that the value 40 of the letter mem has to be contracted to 4. Overwhelming evidence that this is so has now been provided at:
smphillips.8m.com...
where it is shown that the Godnames of the Sephiroth of the Tree of Life are mathematical prescriptions of the nature of reality, as embodied in the blueprint of the Tree of Life and other sacred geometries, which have now been shown to be isomorphic to it.
Here are the gematria number values of the Godnames, Archangels, Orders of Angels and Mundane Chakras of the 10 Sephiroth:
smphillips.8m.com...
Notice that ELOHIM has the number value 50, not 86, as often given in works on Hebrew gematria.
There are numerous examples of the appearance of this number in mathematics (e.g. 50 vertices or faces of the five Platonic solids), nuclear physics (50 is a magic number), etc. In fact, the other number 49 is simply the gematria number value of EL CHAI, the Godname of Yesod, which is the penultimate Sephirah. Given the Kabbalistic nature of the Torah, the way these (and other) Godname numbers order in its text the appearance of its component letters should not be surprising, although it remains amazing. All the number values of the Divine Names are arithmetically connected and have been shown to have a geometrical basis vis-a-vis the Tree of Life. For details, see the section:
smphillips.8m.com...
and discover in other sections how these "master numbers" determine the group mathematics of superstrings and information about the fundamental nature of reality that is embodied in the Tree of Life and other sacred geometries.

a reply to: Woodcarver

and when do you imagine this "team of educated scholars" dreamed up this crazy scheme.
600bce?
1000bce?
a book which purports to have been written in front of, and describing its very recipients.
also never mind the fact that the Torah describes the future exiles of the Hebrews and their ultimate redemption.
A rather bold claim to make. Especially since almost none of the peoples of those times are still extant as cultures. Elamites? Edomites? Phonecians?

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: Woodcarver
this is simply a fun fact and worth little more than a footnote, or an ATS thread.

Please...We all know how you just love (to hate) all things religious here on ATS.

You need these threads.

It's a hobby of mine to point out the failed attempts of logic which are all to commonly posted here on these boards. Just because i enjoy it doesn't mean i'm wrong.

Finding joy in contempt...sounds logical.

a reply to: dashen

How about 'apocryphal-Jewish' scriptures ?
Would the code be altered if the book of Judith or Maccabees for ex. was part of the Torah ?

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

this code only applies to the Five Books of Moses.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: chr0naut

Pi is not referenced though.

But surely either someone placed the value there or it is an extremely unlikely accident.

Either way, it is an oddity, one of far too many for this particular library of books (the Bible).

This method of "protection" is flawed. You can swap around words, or replace words with equal length words, as long as you leave the encoded words intact. Just swapping a few words can drastically change the meaning and context of the text.

Besides, whether there is anything divine about the torah or not, you simply cannot deny that it is a book full of bigotry and evil. The deity in it is nothing short of a misogynistic bloodthirsty warmonger, who makes the likes of IS look tame in comparison. Is it any wonder that the hardcore followers of the religions this abomination has spawned are also bloodthirsty warmongers?

I have been studying and working on compiling this kind of information for a while now, to make it available for others. What strikes me about the Pi number in Genesis 1:1 are two things, that it is before Pi was historically recorded (though Babylon and Egypt were close with √10 = 3.162 and 25/8 = 3.125), and that with the gematria it is such a large calculation it takes some time to work out with a calculator.

When studying the Bible, gematria and the number 666 I came across a thread on the BibleWheel forum by someone who has done a lot of work and come to some fascinating conclusions about a connection with Babylonian astronomy and calendar.