It's time to wake up!

originally posted by: Andy1144
Cursing the loss of the arm induces negative feelings. Weve been over this.

Yes we have and until you can prove that negative feelings are actually bad your claim is baseless.

a reply to: daskakik

What do you mean by "bad" See how this can become a mind game?
It is bad in the sense that it is a less pleasent emotion then not cursing it.

From another sense, it is neither worse or better, because those are just concepts and illusions.
Perhaps your getting the two perspectives mixed up.

From the absolute, there is nothing wrong with suffering opposed to not.
From the relative, we can still say this is better and this is worse because it is usefull to ensure a better experience.

originally posted by: Andy1144
What do you mean by "bad"

You are the one classifying.

It is bad in the sense that it is a less pleasent emotion then not cursing it.

According to what or who?

From another sense, it is neither worse or better, because those are just concepts and illusions.
Perhaps your getting the two perspectives mixed up.

Isn't this the sense that you are trying to awaken to?

a reply to: daskakik

"According to what or who? "

Really?

originally posted by: Andy1144
"According to what or who? "

Really?

Yes, because, if there is any truth to "From another sense, it is neither worse or better, because those are just concepts and illusions." then what or who said this is better or worse.

a reply to: daskakik

From the absolute no one. All there is, is this moment and nothing matters. This is the absolute.

This DOESNT mean we start denying the relative. There still need to be thoughts about past and future to extrapolate what we need in order to functions "as SELVES" to have the best possible experience.

The things that ends when one sees no self is identification. The sense of self continues after that.
Ultimately thought, there was never a self, and no one who saw it either.

Dont get the two prespectives mixed up.
Just because everything is an illusion and doesn't matter on the absolute doesn't mean we stop caring about having the best experience possible? ...Right?
But on the absolute it is correct that nothing is better or worse. Again, I also made my point about the relative and how it plays here

originally posted by: Andy1144
From the absolute no one. All there is, is this moment and nothing matters. This is the absolute.

Sounds new agey to me.

Dont get the two prespectives mixed up.

Which one does DE awaken you to?

You know that that is a loaded question?

a reply to: daskakik

It doesn't matter how it sounds. It is a truth of direct experience and of common sense that right and wrong are only concepts and the world has no inherent meaning.

On the absolute no one awakens to anything. DE is also as false as not DE.
On the relative, consciousness sees that it wasnt what it thought it was and awakens to what actually is true.

On the relative, the only thing that changed is the illusion and the experience as a consequence of that.
On the absolute, absolutely nothing changes.

originally posted by: Andy1144
It doesn't matter how it sounds. It is a truth of direct experience and of common sense that right and wrong are only concepts and the world has no inherent meaning.

No it doesn't but you thought it important enough to mention something about it earlier.

On the absolute no one awakens to anything. DE is also as false as not DE.
On the relative, consciousness sees that it wasnt what it thought it was and awakens to what actually is true.

"Awakens to what is true", is vague and there is no indicator that this is good or better than remaining in ignorance, other than some great unkown force.

On the relative, the only thing that changed is the illusion and the experience as a consequence of that.
On the absolute, absolutely nothing changes.

The illusion doesn't change and the only thing that changes about the experience is the persons ability to let things go.

a reply to: daskakik

What do you consider better or an improvement? I said that living in a state of delusion of a self will cause more mental suffering and living without this illusion wont. The same way knowing that ghosts are not real will make one live life with less fear. What don't you understand about this?
On the absolute they are both illusions, but one is more pleasurable then the other.
So I am not understanding you.

I think you've changed my last sentence with your own there. Put more meat in your replies, your being vague.

a reply to: UniFinity

The experience of reality exists. Yes, it is an illusion but the experience of it exists. So it has implications.
On the absolute it has 0 implications and means nothing.

a reply to: Andy1144

"the experience of it exists"

I AM.

but that also implicates another illusion?

experience exists... how or who is I AM in absolute? this is just another separation. So pure reality is like an inception, layer on layer, till it gets to our body awareness?

originally posted by: Andy1144
What do you consider better or an improvement? I said that living in a state of delusion of a self will cause more mental suffering and living without this illusion wont. The same way knowing that ghosts are not real will make one live life with less fear. What don't you understand about this?

It isn't a matter of not understanding, it is a matter of this not being substantiated in any way.

On the absolute they are both illusions, but one is more pleasurable then the other.
So I am not understanding you.

Pleasure is subjective.

I think you've changed my last sentence with your own there. Put more meat in your replies, your being vague.

You can't tell the difference?

Yours is more vague, making it seem like some significant change has happened. My sentence lays out what actually changes, showing that there is no change other than a persons willingness to let things go.

That is what DE boils down to. Nothing metaphysical or even spiritual. C'est la vie, go with the flow, hakuna matata. Sure it's real, sure its attainable but it's really nothing more than a change of attitude.

a reply to: UniFinity

I am means I know I am aware. It can be verified directly, and does not need intellectual approval.
Nothing else can be known for sure directly but I am. The rest is intellectual understanding.
Its the only "thing" which isn't an illusion.

a reply to: daskakik

It is a paradox.
The only thing which changes is the attitude. And this can sound like it means nothing when you say "only".
But this change of attitude can bring a complete change in ones wellbeing. Just changing that attitude.
It's good you understand that this isn't spiritual or metaphysical.

a reply to: Andy1144

"experience of reality exists, what are the implications?"

can you elaborate a bit about implications?

a reply to: UniFinity

That's a broad subject, maybe you could be more specific.
Consciousness is the constant factor of experience, the screen. Every experience happens in it. But although the experience is an appearence/illusion, it is experienced as real. In a sense it's impossible to experience an illusion because the experiene of everything is real.

a reply to: Andy1144

aha okey, I get that.

lets go back a few questions.


I said that when non identification happens all that remains is DE.
than you asked me:
What do you lack?

how can there be lack of something if there is only nothing?

a reply to: UniFinity

Because you haven't recognized DE in your experience truly, because this would imply you have seen past the illusion of no-self. This should be a paradigm shattering realization.

You haven't done the self inquiries. Perhaps you aren't ripe enough yet. But, you haven't dropped any identifications. That is just your intellectual understanding which is pointless when it comes to experiencing DE first hand.

You aren't doing the self inquiries for a few personal reasons. Thats why I asked you what do you lack? Why isnt self inquiry your main priority?

a reply to: Andy1144
oh I get it...very interesting!

what indeed?

I will dedicate 100% of my focus to DE and will see how it goes, thanks for pointing that out!