It's time to wake up!

originally posted by: Andy1144
It is a paradox.
The only thing which changes is the attitude. And this can sound like it means nothing when you say "only".
But this change of attitude can bring a complete change in ones wellbeing. Just changing that attitude.
It's good you understand that this isn't spiritual or metaphysical.

That is a cop out.

I already live it, that is why I am pointing out that DE is not what was described by "mystics" (in quotes because I mean any paranormal theme) as enlightenment.

Enlightenment may not even really exist but DE is not what is usually meant by the use of that term. Also, associating terms like awakening, the truth, reality and others like these only muddies things up.

a reply to: UniFinity

Well you need to do self-inquiries focusing on direct experience in order to see beyond the illusion of self.

Lets say you forgot about everything and awakening to no-self was your only focus.

What would you be doing. How would you be doing the self inquiries? Be specific.

a reply to: daskakik

Direct experience means experiencing this moment without the assumption that experience is tied to an entity called "I". So unless you've seen past this you are not living DE.

I agree awakening, enlightenment ect, have been thrown too much by the new age community and such, and that they are commonly associated with bliss, love and light, and all that other crap.

I would avoid using those terms too much. I am saying use direct experience to see beyond the illusion of self. Through self inquiry. That is what I am saying. DE isn't literally enlightenment, although seeing the illusion of a self clearly in DE will make you see past the illusion of self. I usually call it no-self or seeing past the illusion of self.

a reply to: UniFinity

I lack?
maybe it is the opposite, I expect something, anything from DE.
Even when I intellectually understand that there is only nothing and nowhere. But I feel that I am still searching and that is wrong.

How to drop desire or how to not identify with desire.

a reply to: Andy1144

without expectation!

if I am searching, this gets in the way.

a reply to: UniFinity

Yes, good. You expect something. Perhaps there are expectations that you must reach a certain state of awareness or finish a certain practice in order to become awake. This is false as we've gone through earlier.

But, searching in some level is not wrong. You will realize that in DE. Right and wrong are only concepts and never mattered.
But, relatively, we can still use right and wrong in order to have the best experience possible.

Now, how can one drop desire and overall identification?
First, understand that all these things arise from a thought, which we think is me. This assumption is what creates all ego driven desires. But it's all an assumption.

In order to drop overall identification you need to see that the identifier/self is an illusion focusing on direct experience. This is so simple that it is so difficult to miss as well.
Now, if your understanding what I am saying so far, maybe add a little more and we'll move on to the no-self inquiries.

originally posted by: Andy1144
Direct experience means experiencing this moment without the assumption that experience is tied to an entity called "I". So unless you've seen past this you are not living DE.

Seeing the number of times you use the word "I", I hope you understand that I really do mean it when I say that I am living DE.

I agree awakening, enlightenment ect, have been thrown too much by the new age community and such, and that they are commonly associated with bliss, love and light, and all that other crap.

True, but, that isn't what I meant.

I would avoid using those terms too much. I am saying use direct experience to see beyond the illusion of self. Through self inquiry. That is what I am saying. DE isn't literally enlightenment, although seeing the illusion of a self clearly in DE will make you see past the illusion of self. I usually call it no-self or seeing past the illusion of self.

You used them enough to make it seem like you were talking about something else.

a reply to: daskakik

"See th number of times you use the word "I", I hope you understand that I really do mean it when I say that I am living DE."
How are you living DE?

Also, about the term using thing. I understand it can become confusing but lets not focus too much on that.

a reply to: Andy1144

aha!

doing, thinking or any action any where...all the the time we are in DE but ignorant of it.

And with searching I am imposing DE onto DE.

now I realize that that DE is, "fake I" is the one who is imaginary all the time and anything, anywhere else also.

originally posted by: Andy1144
How are you living DE?

Actually it makes no difference, does it? You have already explained that it isn't what others mean when they say "elightenment".

Also, about the term using thing. I understand it can become confusing but lets not focus too much on that.

Lets not focus on terms while using text based communication?

Besides you are the one that is guilty of it.

a reply to: UniFinity

You can still look and see if there is a self in DE. Now the thing about doing these self inquires, is that you need to be fully focused and honest about what you are experiencing now. Just forget about everything you've learned up until now except for looking in DE. You need to make this your main focus.
We'll try doing some inquiries now, shortly unless Im busy.

a reply to: daskakik

"Actually it makes no difference, does it? You have already explained that it isn't what others mean when they say "elightenment". ""

On the absolute, it makes no difference because even DE is an illusion. But on the relative level, Santa is not real and Ben Stiller is. On the absolute neither is real, but on the relative, the types of illusion matter because some are more relatively truthfull then others.
But on the relative it makes a difference, on the absolute not one bit.

I dont consider myself guilty for you confusing my terms. It happens between those who dont have a mutual understanding of those terms.

originally posted by: Andy1144
On the absolute, it makes no difference because even DE is an illusion. But on the relative level, Santa is not real and Ben Stiller is. On the absolute neither is real, but on the relative, the types of illusion matter because some are more relatively truthfull then others.
But on the relative it makes a difference, on the absolute not one bit.

I meant that it makes no difference if I tell you or not.

I dont consider myself guilty for you confusing my terms. It happens between those who dont have a mutual understanding of those terms.

Yeah, right.

You use the terms then say that DE isn't really that. Then why did you use the terms?

It's obviously on you but, who cares, it's on the record.

a reply to: Andy1144

there is a self, but not I or me, it has nothing to do with I or me.

a reply to: daskakik

Your misinterpreting what I mean by DE. DE isn't enlightenment directly, however DE can be used to realize no self.
I don't know what point your trying to make in the first sentence, but make a fresh question.

a reply to: UniFinity

You need to elaborate on what your saying. Both of you are giving short replies and are being vague.

originally posted by: Andy1144
Your misinterpreting what I mean by DE. DE isn't enlightenment directly, however DE can be used to realize no self.
I don't know what point your trying to make in the first sentence, but make a fresh question.

I already made my point.

What you are talking about isn't what people normally associate with enlightenment.

So, if someone reads through this thread then sees DE come up somewhere else they will know what it actually is, or at least what it isn't, instead of going round and round with someone about it.

a reply to: daskakik

What do people usually associate with the E word to you? Enlightenment and DE can be meant differently, but mostly I use them in a way that people who are involved in this would understand. I still dont get your point though. Were on different pages.

a reply to: Andy1144

non-self is not anything I can point to or show or think about it, but can be experienced from relative (fake I) point as I AM.
It always is like a witness or non doer, maybe. But without this non self, nothing would exists or be possible.

a contradiction.

originally posted by: Andy1144
What do people usually associate with the E word to you? Enlightenment and DE can be meant differently, but mostly I use them in a way that people who are involved in this would understand. I still dont get your point though. Were on different pages.

My point is that there can be a difference in what you mean by enlightenment (or similar terms) and what someone else means. If they happen to read this thread, then they will read our exchange and realize this.