Russian civilian aircraft goes off radar, reportedly crashes over Egypt

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Woah there buddy! Using nukes should never be used unless humanity experiences an aggressive alien takeover/invasion.
We have very destructive conventional weapons that can force the enemy into submission.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mastronaut

If it was shot down the debris field would have been bigger. This debris field was small indicating it was largely intact until just before impact. A missile that could have brought it down that fast would have cause pieces to separate.

Debka would blame Iran for the sun coming up tomorrow.

I'm on the side of "they didn't shoot it down", I am sincerly on the fence between a simple accident and a possible bomb but not a missile. But the Debka scenario works, both Egypt and Russia would be reluctant to admit an ISIS succesful attack for multiple reasons. After all Russia doesn't need a false flag, if they wanted to deploy troops they just need a phone call to Assad, while showing this vulnerability would hurt Vladimir's media-peen. Egypt would basically lose the entire Sinai tourism.

I read Debka for what it is, so if they aren't blaming Iran it's because it wasn't them, it's those scummy semi-allies of the Saudis aka ISIS (at least this is the narrative I'm seeing lately).

However the anti-Assad coalition has also all the reasons to use this event as propaganda regardless if it's true or not. Just plant enough doubt and it's done. So I'm still not sold on the "accident" cause yet.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Countries regularly "nuke" countries for supporting terrorism, do they?

originally posted by: Mastronaut

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mastronaut

If it was shot down the debris field would have been bigger. This debris field was small indicating it was largely intact until just before impact. A missile that could have brought it down that fast would have cause pieces to separate.

Debka would blame Iran for the sun coming up tomorrow.

I'm on the side of "they didn't shoot it down", I am sincerly on the fence between a simple accident and a possible bomb but not a missile. But the Debka scenario works, both Egypt and Russia would be reluctant to admit an ISIS succesful attack for multiple reasons. After all Russia doesn't need a false flag, if they wanted to deploy troops they just need a phone call to Assad, while showing this vulnerability would hurt Vladimir's media-peen. Egypt would basically lose the entire Sinai tourism.

I read Debka for what it is, so if they aren't blaming Iran it's because it wasn't them, it's those scummy semi-allies of the Saudis aka ISIS (at least this is the narrative I'm seeing lately).

However the anti-Assad coalition has also all the reasons to use this event as propaganda regardless if it's true or not. Just plant enough doubt and it's done. So I'm still not sold on the "accident" cause yet.

You just gave me another thought. Perhaps ISIS did plant a bomb. Egypt may not have the stringest security measures when it comes to airport security. Is the Muslim Brotherhood aligned with ISIS? Perhaps they had someone as a plant, working as staff at airport maintenance or cargo?

a reply to: Mastronaut

If the ADS-B data is right they had a similar problem to Air France 447. After they dropped they climbed again then repeated that event several times.

originally posted by: Kratos40

originally posted by: Mastronaut

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mastronaut

If it was shot down the debris field would have been bigger. This debris field was small indicating it was largely intact until just before impact. A missile that could have brought it down that fast would have cause pieces to separate.

Debka would blame Iran for the sun coming up tomorrow.

I'm on the side of "they didn't shoot it down", I am sincerly on the fence between a simple accident and a possible bomb but not a missile. But the Debka scenario works, both Egypt and Russia would be reluctant to admit an ISIS succesful attack for multiple reasons. After all Russia doesn't need a false flag, if they wanted to deploy troops they just need a phone call to Assad, while showing this vulnerability would hurt Vladimir's media-peen. Egypt would basically lose the entire Sinai tourism.

I read Debka for what it is, so if they aren't blaming Iran it's because it wasn't them, it's those scummy semi-allies of the Saudis aka ISIS (at least this is the narrative I'm seeing lately).

However the anti-Assad coalition has also all the reasons to use this event as propaganda regardless if it's true or not. Just plant enough doubt and it's done. So I'm still not sold on the "accident" cause yet.

You just gave me another thought. Perhaps ISIS did plant a bomb. Egypt may not have the stringest security measures when it comes to airport security. Is the Muslim Brotherhood aligned with ISIS? Perhaps they had someone as a plant, working as staff at airport maintenance or cargo?

Egypt when I been there has very tight security more so than say the US at its airports. The Muslim Brotherhood are also enemies of ISIS not that their are many of them left. And lastly the group that calls itself ISIS in Egypt are just the same radical groups that have always been there. They just took the name and their capabilities are limited to small raids with mostly small arms. And lastly Russia is the very least of ISIS worries. The Saudis, US, West, Turks, GCC would all be much more likely targets.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

It would be a hell of a coincidence if the pilot complained about the aircraft being in poor condition and then they were hit by a missile.

I'm leaning towards poor maintanace of the aircraft many Russian companies are having a hard time with cash flow in the tourist industry. It appears the Russians raided the offices in Russia and hauled away a lot of stuff. This means they are leaning towards the company being at fault. But along those same lines if they were covering up Isis involvement I guess they would do the same. isis has made several threats including chechnya I don't think Put in needs Russians to see his actions have consequences. Putin has placed Russia on Isis most wanted list. The US was on a similar list with Al qaeda and we saw what happened there.

a reply to: dragonridr

The ADS-B data looks like frozen pitot tubes. They dropped 6,000 feet per minute then climbed 8,000 feet per minute and started oscillating up and down until the last reading.

I'd place bets on simple metal fatigue before anything else. If you look at pictures of the crash the vertical stabilizer looks like it was intact but the rudder is missing. Being lighter it may have come off on the way down. But it looks like something caused the plane to break up in mid air.
I don't buy the missile theory because of height involved and location of the crash. It was way out in the middle of no where.
If your going to bring down an airliner with a missile closer to take off or landing is an easier target and more of a public spectacle. Remember your talking about Isis/Isl here. The original drama queens of the terrorist world. They can't take a poop with out making a speech and posting a 10 minute you tube video.
If you were going to use a bomb getting it on board at Sharem-el sheikh would be easier than at Cairo.
Sharem-el sheikh is at the southern end of Egypt and right the north tip of the Red Sea. Getting isis people through the southern Iraq border, what there is of it, then across Northern Saudi Arabia would not be too hard. Then it's just a boat ride to Sharm El-Sheikh. Or you could just come up from Sudan.
I'd be interested to see who gets to decodes the flight data and who is in charge of the flight forensics investigation.

If ISIL says that they shot it down that is most likely what happened period end of story.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
If ISIL says that they shot it down that is most likely what happened period end of story.

The Taliban would say that whenever a cargo plane or whirly bird would go down by accident. Yes, they did get a couple but not all of them. ISIS does not have the capability to bring down a plane from that altitude.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Bull. Terrorist groups have been claiming everything happening anywhere near where they are for years. An Air Force C-130 crashed in Iraq after hitting a barricade and tower and the Taliban claimed they shot it down. Every helicopter crash in the Middle East has been claimed to be shot down by them.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Bull. Terrorist groups have been claiming everything happening anywhere near where they are for years. An Air Force C-130 crashed in Iraq after hitting a barricade and tower and the Taliban claimed they shot it down. Every helicopter crash in the Middle East has been claimed to be shot down by them.

Then they may have been shooting down more than has been being reported, and maybe they have been telling the truth. Did you ever think that they may be shooting down helocopters?

Here they are showing off some of thier USA weapons. . . . Doesnt take too many brain cells to understand they are using the weapons they are displaying on these and many other vids online. So go ahead and deny they can shoot down planes it doesnt make it so.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

There are no shoulder fired missiles that can reach the altitude this plane was at. And there were crashes I know were caused by mechanical failures or weather related incidents that they claimed. They're using them all as propaganda, nothing more.

No doubt the flight profile, as explained, accounts for mechanical failure. However, a look at the map shows other belligerent states that are capable of setting up a larger missile system in the Sinai, just 100km from their boarders .

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

There are no shoulder fired missiles that can reach the altitude this plane was at. And there were crashes I know were caused by mechanical failures or weather related incidents that they claimed. They're using them all as propaganda, nothing more.

There are many ways to do it, whoever is supplying the rebel groups bears the responsibility of this action.

No one knows what the rebels may or may not have in Egypt, do you?

Whatever the case they are claiming to have shot it down, so all I am saying is maybe they are telling the truth!

If rebels claim they shot down other planes in thier areas I see no reason to not beleive them.

In a court of law a confession usually means something. . . . .

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Yes because every confession ever has always been the truth. They'd never lie about it and take responsibility for something they didn't do. That's never happened before in history.

This plane was not hit by a SAM like you posted. It would have caused a mid air explosion of it had. Not come down intact.

a reply to: Zaphod58

From everything I have heard, and believe, this is not a conspiracy,

In my opinion, this is a mechanical nightmare.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

The ADS-B data looks like frozen pitot tubes. They dropped 6,000 feet per minute then climbed 8,000 feet per minute and started oscillating up and down until the last reading.

That's interesting to hear you say that. The Air France flight flew straight into a storm which easily explains how they had that problem.

However, the weather conditions were supposedly quite innocuous the time the metrojet plane crashed. If this is true, I wonder what blocked them?