Russian civilian aircraft goes off radar, reportedly crashes over Egypt

I read a blog today that brought up some good points. The start of this investigation doesn't give a good feeling for an impartial or good investigation. We have pictures already of Egyptian politicians at the crash site, handling one of the damaged data recorders one handed when they shouldn't even be holding it....

Makes me nervous about where this is going to go if they're already pulling this.

a reply to: earthling42



With that kind of movement I'd be surprised if there wasn't structural failure during the crash. I'd bet on the aft fuselage break occurring as a result of that, and a vertical descent.

a reply to: Zaphod58

You mean they will play along with IS who were claiming they downed the aircraft?

On Guardian there was a news message that Russian and Egyptian investigators are going to examine the data from the black boxes.
Hope some qualified people from the french investigation team are present during the examination.

a reply to: earthling42

More that if it does turn out to be sabotage they may try to cover it up and say pilot or maintenance error.

a reply to: earthling42

Believe it or not, not having people from the French investigation team might be preferable. That might end up as just another source for Airbus bias to seep through.

This is not going well. It appears that the crash was caused by a bomb:

"Russian air crash investigators have confirmed that an Airbus A321 which vanished from radar some 23 minutes after taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh broke up at high altitude.

Alexander Neradko, head of Russia's federal aviation agency, confirmed that the jet disintegrated at high altitude in a remote area where Egypt is fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda-backed terrorists.

Mr Neradko refused to comment on the cause of the crash, claiming the investigation was ongoing, but terrorism experts believe that a bomb could have been responsible.

Professor Michael Clarke, Director General of the Royal United Services Institute told BBC Radio Five Live: 'There’s no sign of a distress call, so the idea that the aircraft was undergoing an mechanical problem, or an engine problem, or a fire, or something like that, you would expect that there would be some sort of distress call beforehand.

‘So the fact that there was a catastrophic failure at 31,000 feet, with the aircraft falling in two pieces, suggests to me an explosion on board. So was this caused by some form of terrible accident, which is unlikely, or a bomb, which is much more likely, my mind is moving in that direction rather than anything that happened on the ground.'

Source

Any thoughts on how Putin will respond?

My condolences to all affected

a reply to: dianajune

It's not confirmed. They guy is an idiot. There are several things that could go wrong that have nothing to do with a bomb.

a reply to: Chadwickus

a reply to: CovertAgenda Cool, so false flag because....just coz. Way to deny ignorance!

No ... I at least gave at least one reason... or cant you read?
Here again for your edification....

a reply to: Chadwickus The news has only just broke and you're already throwing around false flag accusations?? Really? ...well November is traditionally the month for false flag events...

Are you now ignoring what you said as fact?

Are we ignoring the fact that the pilot reported a technical failure and requested to land at the nearest airport?

Really?.. who has verified that? could that be just another one of those nefarious plots you speak of?

Hasn't that been debunked now... Fact?
Selective myopic assessment of dis/information?

originally posted by: MrSpad
This is sadly just another accident. Russia's does not have a good record in air craft safety. Lax maintenance seems to plague both Russian civilian and military aircraft. If ISIS had the capability to shoot down planes they would be doing in the Russian air corridors in Syria or Iraq.

Consider this friend, that very small but very powerful mid east country who is likely to resent Russia moving into Syria and embarrassing the US possibly even nutralising them in Syria.

From what Ive read the US and it allies have flown 7,000 missions against ISIS which have not been successful in defeating them. Russia comes along; flies 6 missions and just about wipes them out. The US that mid east country might not like that, as it might not make them look real good.

The Russian plane had only Russians on board, no other nationalities on board. The small country is highly militarised and few people have detailed knowledge of its military capability, could have puched Russia on the nose by taking the plane out and doing their friends, the US a favour.

Would be difficulat for Russia to claim it was shot down by a missle. If they did, million to one, the MA17 shoot down will come up again very quickly and Russia would be blamed big time so to some extent, Russia cannot come out and say what they may acutually think or know exactly how it came down.

originally posted by: dianajune
This is not going well. It appears that the crash was caused by a bomb:

"Russian air crash investigators have confirmed that an Airbus A321 which vanished from radar some 23 minutes after taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh broke up at high altitude.

Alexander Neradko, head of Russia's federal aviation agency, confirmed that the jet disintegrated at high altitude in a remote area where Egypt is fighting ISIS and Al Qaeda-backed terrorists.

Mr Neradko refused to comment on the cause of the crash, claiming the investigation was ongoing, but terrorism experts believe that a bomb could have been responsible.

Professor Michael Clarke, Director General of the Royal United Services Institute told BBC Radio Five Live: 'There’s no sign of a distress call, so the idea that the aircraft was undergoing an mechanical problem, or an engine problem, or a fire, or something like that, you would expect that there would be some sort of distress call beforehand.

‘So the fact that there was a catastrophic failure at 31,000 feet, with the aircraft falling in two pieces, suggests to me an explosion on board. So was this caused by some form of terrible accident, which is unlikely, or a bomb, which is much more likely, my mind is moving in that direction rather than anything that happened on the ground.'

Source

Any thoughts on how Putin will respond?

I do not think he will claim it was a bomb as thats inflamatory and I think that he would rather continue to sideline and nutrualise the US in Syria as his main objective.

I suspect that one very small but very powerful country in the mid east might have done this. There were only Russians on board the plane, no other nationalities to deal with. The distribution of wreckage and sudden loss of contact suggests a missile and I'm sure the Russians know this but wont say anything. In fact, I dont think they can as MA 7 will come up again and Russia will get hit hard over that then.

Over all I think Russia will simply cop this, at least for time being and certainly until the investigation finding is released. There impreitives in Syria and the Ukraine are far more important than 200 lives. In a sense, Russia is already at war with the US and its very powerful ally in the mid east.

Hitting back or making threats at this time for the next 3-6 months or so will not do Russia any good. Remember one thing. The Western world will always give Russia a bad press and inaccurate reporting which we all know about. Remember also that the US and that very small but very powerfully ally in the Mid east will always ensure the US and its vassal states around the world will always give the US a good press. This is a factor that Russia must and will take into consideration too.

I do know all to well how it feels when you hear that many of your countrymen die in a such a terrible accident. .

I hope they find peace and thoughts go out to the families of the victims. .

a reply to: Azureblue

So which MANPADS can they use again? They have no known SAM systems so it must have been a MANPADS if it was shot down, so which one is capable of reaching that altitude, and causing an aircraft that size to react like the transponder showed again?



A few facts:

We have an aircraft type with a known issue with the pitot tubes that has caused one crash previously. We have an aircraft with reported technical problems for the week prior to the accident. The aircraft flew for an airline with a previous history of maintenance problems. The pilot reported it was in poor condition technically prior to takeoff.

The Russian officials' statement sounds correct to me.
Guardian today
Basically it could be a bomb, a laser or even a missile. They excluded simple structural problems.
Technical investigation will no doubt show that but it takes time.
Sinai expert Zack Gold says all the Islamic group said was that they downed the plane, not that they shot it down (source above).

a reply to: Azureblue

Again... Russia has not nearly wiped out isis in 6 missions. It's a nice anti US fantasy that's not even close to reality. Pretty sure isis just beheaded a bunch more people.

False premise. More lies. And Russia is to blame for MH17. Since they're the experts in attacking commercial jets I'm wondering why no one is blaming Russia for this. False flag. Oh wait, the US exists so it must be their fault somehow.

I am also sickened by the people who salivate at the idea of the United States somehow providing the weapons to shoot down a commercial jet. How are the Russians able to get away with providing weapons (which we all know wasn't provided, but rather, used by Russian military in plainclothes because who else knows how to use that equipment) to shoot down civilian planes and the US, who hasn't shown that they've ever even come close to being involved in this current situation, is instantly blamed by the crowd? The US sucks, but it's disgusting that people turn their shoulder to what obviously happened to MH17. Really really sad. Look at the country who INTENTIONALLY shot down MH17 first before you start throwing blame around.

Nothing has gotten better since Russia started parading around. Eastern Ukraine is a mess and Syria is an even bigger mess. Has Russia helped in the migrant crisis? No. Were they there in 2012 to help their ally Assad when they could have stabilized Assad? Nope. The US is clearly better at playing the game than Russia. Now Russia is giving way to an Assad successor while doing all the dirty work. Way to be America's bitch Russia. Thought you were cool bro. Sigh.

a reply to: Kokatsi

A laser is more feasible than a missile to you? Come on...

Yes...someone shot a laser at it. Of course. And whooooo has laser capability? Must be the US right?

If these pieces of debris weren't moved, it definitely shows that there was a fire on board in the front cargo bay.

Picture

a reply to: earthling42

The question now is pre or post crash. So far there apparently has been no trace of explosives residue found. A cargo hold fire could have caused control issues if not caught in time.