Nunchucks chosen as a nonlethal alternative for California police dept

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: intrptr

A harrasssment waepon at best,hard to kill unless weilded or very spacifically trained to hit a precise target.
Nunchucks can hit any number of nervepoints and kill on the spot,by mistake. NOT to mention BAD guys like them as well.

The specific shape of each stick (hexagon is best) and the end , (not rounded but cut straight) add even more energy to the blow.

Practice makes one proficient in striking specific spots, as specific as a golfer, tennis or baseball player. More so, even.

A good nunchaku workout / practice session leaves one exhausted.

I agree, bad guys like them, they know how deadly they are.

Easily concealable on the body as well as opposed to a Baton or Tonfa, one stick is above the elbow and the other below in a coat or long shirt sleeve. Or both sticks together, chain down under the belt in the pants.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: amazing

If I had several people coming at me with knives and fists to kill me and there was a nunchuka and a stick, I'd pick up the stick every time.

If thats what you are used to. I'd take the chuks.

The art of nunchaku isn't just swinging sticks around, it involves stick and move, stick and move. Kick, block, strike, spin. You go after an opponent with them, you don't wait.

There is no defense against a horizontal or vertical figure eight so fast you can hardly see them as you close aggressively. Flurry of rushing air and yell, then strike… one down.

Anyone else who just saw that is going to back up.

I see what you're saying and you're not wrong. I train in and teach some Stick/Baton stuff and it's highly effective, I also teach and train in some Nunchucka and although it can be effective, I see some limitations. One is that with a stick, I can go in and actually apply a chock hold or a restraining motion much easier than with the chucks. I feel strongly that it would take much more training to be effective with chucks than with baton and we know that police training isn't always in the budgets these days. I also think that there is so many Indonesian, Filipino and Kempo and Silat arts that have amazing stick techniques that it would be far easier to find a qualified instructor that with chucks.

I laughed so hard when I realized the location. The place is already a joke. I anticipate a lot more laughter and a few very sad stories coming out of this.

While the PDs surely need to introduce more non lethal methods, nunchucks, don't seem like the answer. First off they need to focus on their protocols that are aiding the causing corruption throughout instead of offering a crutch to as a permanent solution.

a reply to: amazing
Sorry, I meant to get back to you sooner…

You're right, there are limitations, especially for police work. Riot control or access denial by forming a line is all about presence and guiding people. With a baton, its all up front and obvious and, if not heeded, a bump or poke as a reminder.

Sticks wouldn't work for that. They only extend reach when swung, in that regard they do more harm than good. Begs the question who is considering this for the police arsenal.

By the way, I had a good instructor… taught me in stages, proficiency was gradual so I didn't hurt myself too bad. Still painful, the nerves in the elbow and knee get numbed a bit.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Bedlam

I'm not sure what gap in the force spectrum it's filling. Any of this stuff you could do with a PR24, and with a lot less training to be proficient.

Nunchaku provide more reach than batons or tonfa, can be used to disarm an opponents weapon, use as painful come along, choke someone and direct magnified force from a strike that can't be achieved with a baton or tonfa.

"Disarm an opponent's weapon"? Are you serious.?This isn't #ing naruto, this is real life bro. I don't even know what to say to this, I really don't. If you think Nun Chuks are the solution to cops problems, or are a practical weapon in the street scuffles cops get into with crooks, I don't know how to help you.

As soon as pov or dash cam footage etc comes in, these guys are going to be embarrassing themselves pretty bad.

I mean yeesh, that news spot is embarrassing already.

Or is this some reasonably safe suburb type place where they're never going to see much use anyway?

originally posted by: chuck258

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Bedlam

I'm not sure what gap in the force spectrum it's filling. Any of this stuff you could do with a PR24, and with a lot less training to be proficient.

Nunchaku provide more reach than batons or tonfa, can be used to disarm an opponents weapon, use as painful come along, choke someone and direct magnified force from a strike that can't be achieved with a baton or tonfa.

"Disarm an opponent's weapon"? Are you serious.?This isn't #ing naruto, this is real life bro. I don't even know what to say to this, I really don't. If you think Nun Chuks are the solution to cops problems, or are a practical weapon in the street scuffles cops get into with crooks, I don't know how to help you.

I'm against the cops adopting them, your misunderstanding of that is only matched by your ignorance of how Nunchaku (not "Nun Chuks", Chuk) can used to "disarm an opponent". One way, 4 minutes into here…

a reply to: intrptr

funny you brought up Bruce lee. according to Danny inosanto. (the guy who first taught Bruce Lee how to use nunchuku ) even Bruce Lee thought nunchuku were stupid and didn't see any practical usage for them. but he thought they would look cool in a movie and used them.

you realise a guy can just take a stick and insert it into the flail while its whirling around and completely fowl it up. from there a simple right cross drops nunchuku boy.

also triangular footwork gets around some guy actually swinging a nunchuku. if he's simply twirling it around like a propeller I'm thinking even a split entry will screw over the nunchuku.

now if you want to correct people on the usage of the word nunchuku. then I say we use the original and real word for nunchuku. tabak-toyak. you realize those flails originated as weapons outside of japan. even Okinawa can't claim them. no Japanese term for "nunchuku" is correct.

nunchuks basically only have an effective jab. a horrible cyclical rate though for a jab. I'd rather watik the crap out of someone 3 times to the hand or face in the interval it takes to get the nunchuks rechambered and online for a second jab.

nunchuks as far as swinging go are only good for one swing. if it hits great. it will then bounce and be hard to recover and get back under control. and if the guy isn't incapacitated which he's likely to not be especially if they hit the guys arms. your screwed.

My mental image of a 16 hour cop using nunchaku. Note that it's metaphoric and not literal.

a reply to: Bedlam

sadly even dafy there's techniques are more legit than nunchku techniques.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: intrptr

funny you brought up Bruce lee. according to Danny inosanto. (the guy who first taught Bruce Lee how to use nunchuku ) even Bruce Lee thought nunchuku were stupid and didn't see any practical usage for them. but he thought they would look cool in a movie and used them.

His moves in the movies were hollywood, for show, yes (mostly). I picked that one moment to show a simple disarm. Heres some more, try and keep up…

you realize a guy can just take a stick and insert it into the flail while its whirling around and completely fowl it up. from there a simple right cross drops nunchuku boy.

Not used for "flailing" at someone with a "stick".

also triangular footwork gets around some guy actually swinging a nunchuku. if he's simply twirling it around like a propeller I'm thinking even a split entry will screw over the nunchuku.

Again, not flailing, striking. You think you can manually disarm an opponent with 'foot work'? Whatever move you make (first) will not be within reach.

now if you want to correct people on the usage of the word nunchuku. then I say we use the original and real word for nunchuku. tabak-toyak. you realize those flails originated as weapons outside of japan. even Okinawa can't claim them. no Japanese term for "nunchuku" is correct.

Whatever language you prefer, besides the US bastardization. They originated as a flail, as you correctly call them, to separate rice from the stalk. Only they were a much longer pole on one end. Someone got the brainy idea to shorten them to the same length and wallah. Very serious weapon indeed.

you realize a guy can just take a stick and insert it into the flail while its whirling around and completely fowl it up. from there a simple right cross drops nunchuku boy. nunchuks basically only have an effective jab.

"jabbing" isn't their primary strength, anyone can jab with a "stick". Nunchaku accelerate at the end, like a whip does.

I'd rather watik the crap out of someone 3 times to the hand or face in the interval it takes to get the nunchuks rechambered and online for a second jab.

There is no second chance, with a strike. If you step in or reach, i smack your knee, elbow, I break your hand or wrist, long before you get inside. It only takes one swing, again not "flailing".

nunchuks as far as swinging go are only good for one swing. if it hits great. it will then bounce and be hard to recover and get back under control. and if the guy isn't incapacitated which he's likely to not be especially if they hit the guys arms. your screwed.

Proficiency involves practice on targets to learn to control recoil from strikes. I guarantee you it takes far less time to recover than the victim. Strikes are two kinds anyway, glancing blows with the end will actually tear flesh, and face which, if hexagon, has its own edge. You've never been struck in the elbow, knee or cranium before, obviously.You think your hand or foot is harder, harder than a baton or bat, harder than the side or straight cut end of a rosewood hexagon, traveling even faster?

Trash talk anyway. Proper use is impossible to defend against, they are moving too fast, the pain they inflict is sudden and severe. You will submit or get struck again, harder.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: amazing
Sorry, I meant to get back to you sooner…

You're right, there are limitations, especially for police work. Riot control or access denial by forming a line is all about presence and guiding people. With a baton, its all up front and obvious and, if not heeded, a bump or poke as a reminder.

Sticks wouldn't work for that. They only extend reach when swung, in that regard they do more harm than good. Begs the question who is considering this for the police arsenal.

By the way, I had a good instructor… taught me in stages, proficiency was gradual so I didn't hurt myself too bad. Still painful, the nerves in the elbow and knee get numbed a bit.

I noticed that yesterday as I was swinging the chucks around. It's not the head you have to worry about, it's the elbows!

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: amazing
Sorry, I meant to get back to you sooner…

You're right, there are limitations, especially for police work. Riot control or access denial by forming a line is all about presence and guiding people. With a baton, its all up front and obvious and, if not heeded, a bump or poke as a reminder.

Sticks wouldn't work for that. They only extend reach when swung, in that regard they do more harm than good. Begs the question who is considering this for the police arsenal.

By the way, I had a good instructor… taught me in stages, proficiency was gradual so I didn't hurt myself too bad. Still painful, the nerves in the elbow and knee get numbed a bit.

I noticed that yesterday as I was swinging the chucks around. It's not the head you have to worry about, it's the elbows!

Nummmmb, s*** that hurts. Around the noggin moves are dangerous, even for show. The show moves are for meets, the real application is exercise and practice for strike, disarm and holds.

Edit:Novices see the exhibitionism and think, ahh, I can beat that with this and that… lol

Despite as weapons they remain hidden from sight until they are employed a second later, if you do see someone with them and you don't have a firearm, you might as well back off.

a reply to: intrptr

cute video. it's bs though. nobody simply sticks their hand out for another guy to just go into some lock flow. besides they have a second hand available. and no your not going to simply shut down a resisting opponent and get leverage in time before the second punch lands. that video was pretty unrealistic.

footwork to disarm someone? never said that. i said footwork will screw over a guy with nunchuks. triangular footwork is counter offensive meaning that when timed and ranged correctly you step in closer to the opponent and lland in a tactically and anatomically superior position shoulder to shoulder with the guy. nunchuks are useless once the opponent is in that position. what you going to punyo with them while the guys got a clear shot punching you in the head. you wouldn't be arguing with me about footwork if you were as versed in martial arts as you say. and you would have known exactly what i was going on about.

also physics is physics the nunchuk is going to be temporarily out of control right after a strike makes contact. you should know that control of the weapon is most important over all. nunchuks simply don't allow for that.

as for not ever been dinged in the elbows before. i laugh at that. every serious martial artist or enthusiast has taken a blow to the elbows. elbows can give as much as they recieve. besides what part of I do kali and silat did you not understand. there's no martial art in the world that utilizes elbows for both fending and striking more so than south east asian ma. you would know that too.

as for the language and terminology. you were the one who got busted incorrectly correcting people on the usage of the word nunchuks.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

that video was pretty unrealistic.

It was practice, numbskull.

You heard dude groan at the very end? Any more leverage at that point would have broken bones.

Like I said, try and keep up.

Waves bye…

a reply to: intrptr

ah, I see what the problem here is.



ok let me help you out a little. put down the nunchuk. take off the ninja outfit or yellow jumpsuit. pick up a stick about 21" long. firmly hold the stick about 3" up from its base. hold said stick with wrist straight so it makes a 90% angle with your forearm (extremely important unless you want to loose fingers) chamber stick up and over your shoulder. now swing it diagonally downward at a 45 degree angle with a forehand. don't break your wrist over early, wait until its brought to you hip before doing so. ( like you would "whipping" a nunchuk or you'll loose your fingers again) that is called a fluid #1 strike. follow through with strike until stick is chambered over opposit shoulder. now do a back hand strike 45 degrees downward in a hacking motion. (observe all the same rules as with the #1 strike. they will become very important to you later as you get better with the weapon. remember precision and control is the most important aspect of using a weapon.) this back hand strike is called a #2. now fluidly cycle the 1 & 2 strike for an hour. no...don't look over longingly at the nunchuks in the trash. you can play with them later with all the other toys. right now you need to focus on real weapon handling tttechniques and strategy.

ok got the basics down? good. now draw a equilateral triangle on the ground. stand at the top of the triangle and imagine a opponent standing at the triangles base. step along the triangles side toward the base. this is called the reverse triangle or female triangle. boxers use a variation of it. swordsman use it. kali guys use it. I'm fact most accomplished martial artists are familiar with it. now alternate left and right stepping off the point of the triangle towards the points on its base. practice this for an hour. as you get comfortable with it start to parry. you can use a fore hand parry like a swat or a a back hand parry like a hack. doesnt matter just get used to defending protecting your head. why are you standing there while I'm explaining this. keep stepping and working that footwork. got that down? good. that's the basics of what's called c o u n t e r o f f e n s i v e footwork. its been practiced and used fir millennia.

now go grab the stick again. combine the two exercises. this will help you develop a concept called counter offensive striking.. work that for an hour.

congratulations!!! you now know more about how impact weapons work than ever before. your journey in the usage of real world applicable impact weapons is beggining. now I know this new found skill and power is exciting but don't get ahead of yourself. I'll give you exercises to practice other strikes and footwork in a while. don't try and do any flourettes, redondos, Arcos, abanikos, thrusts or anything else yet. just stick with strikes one and two. only one and two until you get the footwork coordinated.

now can nunchuks injure people and be dangerous? of couse! are they a legit weapon that's ever been successfully used in combat? no. do they have more cons than pros? yep. do they look scary and impressive yep. do they hold up in application against a angry determined foe. very debatable. should cops have and use them no. are the batons and sticks and tasers they already have sufficient and even superior to a nunchuk? yes.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
arguing with reason against a total fool

Dude, you are wasting your breath. The guy is sticking up for one of the more hopeless martial arts weapons ever, and in the hands of local police who get nothing more than a few weekend seminars on how to use them. Sure, like anything, they are pretty awesome to see in the hands of a Bruce Lee or Jet Li. They require so much training, and so much dexterity to begin with, that they are like a form of extremely difficult, improvisational juggling to employ in actual melee combat.

Plus, defending the nunchuks by citing the striking power is beyond stupid. The one thing you can do easily with nunchuks is just swing them at people, yet the whole justification for these being issued was as a 'nonlethal alternative' so never mind that if they actually did land a swing, they'd split somebody's skull open with them. I mean yeesh, just give them loaded gloves or something.

The whole idea is so obviously stupid, and yet, the internet is proving once again that people will defend anything.

I mean seriously, if they absolutely have to pick some medieval East Asian melee weapon for police work, wouldn't it be smart to pick something that actually has a history of being used for police work, like a three section staff? I mean that's another difficult weapon to master, but it makes a lot more sense for all the trapping/leveraging/binding etc it can do, and the striking mostly does not at all rely on fancy spins and passes and catches and such. And how about that, it also has a long history of being used in police and bodyguard type work.

Although if they really want to 'get medieval' than I would think it'd be best to pick something simple. Just go for a fork type pole arm. Those are pretty simple, you can just pin people to the floor or a wall with them. After a recent wave of stabbing attacks where lonely mental patient types would snap and attack school children, part of the Chinese state response was to issue these old style pole arms to teachers.

originally posted by: 11andrew34
Although if they really want to 'get medieval' than I would think it'd be best to pick something simple.

I vote for quarterstaff. Or its alternates, the bo or hanbo. But I'm still not sure it's an appropriate LEO tool.

eta: And you get to say ho, ha ha, thrust, parry, spin.

a reply to: Bedlam

I agree the staff is an excellent tool. can be found anywhere and is more capable and dynamic than it looks. like a lot more.

it is however a poor choice for police work.

since we're in the topic of staffs permit me to thread drift for a second and then I'll come back to batons better than nunchuks which turn out to be nearly useless.

I've noticed staff techniques break down into two main catagories. long staff techniques based off of military long spear techniques. common in places like china. the techniques keep the staff more glued to the body's core and rely on long range tactics.

then there is short staff techniques that combine short spear with baton techniques. more common in south Asia and europe.

personally I think long staff techniques are good for training but poor for fighting unless you are on some medieval battlefield or have a wall of guys with long spears.

short staff techniques are more efficient and better for modern real world applications. hence I think you made a good choice in old school weapons preference.

plus you do get to say slash! thrust! spin! when training with it.

basic short staff.
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but interestingly if you watch the same group of guys use a spear instead you'll see the same movements of the staff. you'll see the strikes 1 & 2 I explained in my previous post that I swear are universal building blocks of nearly all impact weapon technique and theory. funny how they work across all platforms and impact weapon catagories. sticks, staffs even knives and short swords (of course in the spear video there are more complex angles of striking thrown in, in the form of strikes 3 & 4 plus a thrust and umbrella block ) but all based on the basic building blocks of the baton or stick.

sticks and batons really are the most versatile and use full of tools, and a weapon like the nunchuk doesn't even belong in the same catagory.

long story short. there is a reason police forces for hundreds of years all over the world choose a stick or baton over exotic weapons like nunchuks.
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