Black/Urban English? Is the inability to speak correctly contributeing to unemployment?

a reply to: uncommitted

The job would entail both dealing with customers, the public and filling out legal forms so the ability to express one self in clear English is a vital part of the job.

You can't fix stupid, and that what people who speak this way are. Whether the educational system, their circumstances, or they themselves are to blame is a discussion for another time. Personally, I tend to ignore someone when having a simple conversation is a Herculean struggle.

originally posted by: redoubt
a reply to: crazyewok

Just a sidenote in re to here in the US...

There was a recent study that made headlines about how current education levels required for high school graduation compared to those in decades past. According to this study, HS grads *currently carry the education of an 8th or 9th grader from the '50s and '60s.

*Ref: It's been about a half-dozen years. I'm gonna do some digging and see if I can find a web reference to this.

The sad thing is that it goes beyond just speaking properly. Many cannot even write or do basic arithmetic. One of my favorite comedy routines is when Sinbad talks about kids working at McDonald's and how they can't figure out how to make change when the cash register breaks.

a reply to: seeker1963

I mean that that they south can have almost a completely different dialect, the rural urban areas of the south with heavy accents and just different ways of pronouncing words can be very hard to understand. And that is both black and white.
I agree it is not exclusive to the south though.

There's a lot more problems than language. My intern has been with me 3 years and in the last year has started missing a lot of work. Only made it 1 day last week and claims he comes in on the weekend but he doesn't. The end of the year he's done I have warned him many times but it's out of my hands. His response was "I knew you would find a reason to fire me". I told him if he would come to work there wouldn't be a problem but he's gone probably moving back to the hood when fired. He makes $24 an hour and doesn't care.

I'll never forget watching two of my black friends argue over who's slang was the freshest.

The determining factor turned out to be which cell block it originated from.


Comedy Gold

On a related note, people from Glasgow who live years in England and refuse to use correct English words in place of their strong dialect and accent.

When I moved to England aged 16 there were many words I had to repeat because people failed to understand my strong Welsh accent/dialect. I started saying them the 'English' way first time and it became natural.
It is lazy and/or stubborn, and I defy anyone who says Glasgow folk are actually unable to say 'I don't know...' instead of 'I dinnae ken...' bull#.

I was back in Wales at the weekend and lot's of Welsh came out of my mouth, but it is not hard to use correct English when back in England.
Winds me right up, argh, /rant

a reply to: crazyewok

I saw on the morning Detroit News shows that they are teaching Shakespeare to rap music altering the real words so the kids...s bopping...will "get him".

I'm at a loss...we're doomed.

originally posted by: grainofsand
On a related note, people from Glasgow who live years in England and refuse to use correct English words in place of their strong dialect and accent.

When I moved to England aged 16 there were many words I had to repeat because people failed to understand my strong Welsh accent/dialect. I started saying them the 'English' way first time and it became natural.
It is lazy and/or stubborn, and I defy anyone who says Glasgow folk are actually unable to say 'I don't know...' instead of 'I dinnae ken...' bull#.

I was back in Wales at the weekend and lot's of Welsh came out of my mouth, but it is not hard to use correct English when back in England.
Winds me right up, argh, /rant

Well the scotts do have us English to pay for them


J/K

I would definitely not hire anyone that could not articulate themselves correctly to represent my business

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
a reply to: crazyewok

I saw on the morning Detroit News shows that they are teaching Shakespeare to rap music altering the real words so the kids...s bopping...will "get him".

I'm at a loss...we're doomed.

Makes me wonder the logic behind dumbing down language to correct dumb language. ....

a reply to: grainofsand

Glasgow folk don't use the word 'ken', in fact they use the word 'know', and I should know!

They also don't say 'dinnae'...lol.

If you use those words in Glasgow you might be called a 'teuchter'.

a reply to: Edumakated

Sinbad is from Benton Harbor MI so he knows what he's talking about.

a reply to: crazyewok


Just for the laughs, can you post some examples?

originally posted by: Edumakated


Unfortunately, many poorer blacks view speaking proper english as "talking white".

I'm not sure how it is in the UK but here in the US there is a similar phenomenon. African American culture has gained a lot of strength and cohesiveness by developing just that... a separate culture. Linguistics are part and parcel to that. I think that many in the African American community resent and would receive contempt from within their own culture for adopting "white" linguistics, and even (to a point) "white" values, which focus heavily upon financial success. This is a catch-22 because the best source of support is from within the African American culture and community but adopting those affectations that would help them succeed within the dominant culture is perceived as a rejection of black culture and can erode that support. Tough spot to be in.

It's kind of doubling down. There is real discrimination based upon skin color alone from the dominant culture (white), and there is a bias within the African American community itself against adopting those aspects and attributes that are considered part of white culture.

Full disclosure: This is all coming from a white lady brought up in a very white culture; although (even further full disclosure) I should probably say "self identified" white because genetically, apparently I'm not as white as I look. I'm sure I've offended plenty with this however.

The tragedy to me is that the teen girls who are unable to communicate effectively/read are having kids of their own.
Who the # is going to read 'correct English' bedtime stories to the next generation, the early years are the most influential to communicative development.

Yeh, red ridin-ood was bare shook when da wolf showed...

It's sad really.

a reply to: crazyewok

Insufficient schools as well as the 'twitter generation' , as others have said. One would think governments would put more money into job fairs and emphasize this problem. It is definitely not just a 'black problem'.

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: grainofsand

Glasgow folk don't use the word 'ken', in fact they use the word 'know', and I should know!

They also don't say 'dinnae'...lol.

If you use those words in Glasgow you might be called a 'teuchter'.

Fair one, but I know Glaswegians who are barely understandable, and doing business it is annoying and a barrier.
If someone approached me for work and they refuse to speak correct English words while living in England then I wouldn't take them.

...I think you know exactly the types I'm talking about and this ain't no Scottish bash, plenty of other strong dialects with people who refuse to make it easier to communicate...strong Geordie is an easy example.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: redoubt
a reply to: crazyewok

Just a sidenote in re to here in the US...

There was a recent study that made headlines about how current education levels required for high school graduation compared to those in decades past. According to this study, HS grads *currently carry the education of an 8th or 9th grader from the '50s and '60s.

*Ref: It's been about a half-dozen years. I'm gonna do some digging and see if I can find a web reference to this.

The sad thing is that it goes beyond just speaking properly. Many cannot even write or do basic arithmetic. One of my favorite comedy routines is when Sinbad talks about kids working at McDonald's and how they can't figure out how to make change when the cash register breaks.

That is funny. But, I was never very good at math. I did go through Algebra I in High school and got through Algebra Intro to Trig in University (with tutoring). But I remember a problem I had when working at a convenience store during high school. Math in high school had never taught me that if the total came to $13 and the customer gave me $23 it meant they wanted a $10 bill back. If the total was $9.77 and they gave me $10.77 it meant they wanted a bill rather than change. And I went to a wealthy high school. I did, eventually, understand this concept, lol.