China Ready To Use Military Force If US Violates Its Territorial Waters

a reply to: monkeyluv

Except that's not what they said. They said it's not a sure thing and they're not as ready as they want to be. They didn't say they can't take Russia on, just that it would be harder than in the past.

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

'twas but a simple comparison people could grasp that I tried

I understand your point. I have not justified China's actions. I have said I understand their actions. There is a huge difference between understanding someone and justifying them.

What I am saying is that if the Chinese are asking Aircraft Carriers to back down. I think at this time it is best to have the Aircraft Carriers back down.

We have not exhausted all diplomatic options. Don't sanctions cone before war? Or do we really want WW3?

No one wins WW3.

China has no validity in asking the US to avoid the area. As a matter of fact they know we have the exact OPPOSITE obligation to the area due to our allies.

China needs to learn it needs another 20 years before it can be a big boy.

The irony is that China started controlling the region almost two decades ago and the U.S. did nothing. Apparently, it's more than a big boy now.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: chewi
a reply to: Vector99
The world would not need to find extra land and resources if it wasn't for the way in which the world powers distribute the wealth.
USA are the richest nation in the world. They cant even look after their own citizens but think they can sort out the worlds problems.
Charity begins at home. NO we want to further our world agenda and fox our citizens. They will be happy when they realise we have the most billionaires and millionaires.

China is stealing from poorer and weaker countries. How does that fit your diatribe?

Interestingly enough, China is a major trading partner and investor in the region, especially with countries that are disputing the territorial control.

It's even a major trading partner of the U.S.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: monkeyluv

Except that's not what they said. They said it's not a sure thing and they're not as ready as they want to be. They didn't say they can't take Russia on, just that it would be harder than in the past.

The U.S. knew that China controlled Asia some time ago. That's why the former did nothing when other countries complained about China almost two decades ago.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: victor7
Reply to asen_y2k

BRICS are not a alliance. Moreover Russia, Brazil, and economically finished, democratic India learns more towards the west rather than communist China and Russia.

Only alliance that may form is between Russia and China both dictatorships with huge internal problems which may use a war to distract its people from a revolution.

I think it's more of a pivot towards Russia, especially given the fact that India continues to purchase military vehicles from Russia.


Where do you get your facts from?

India leans towards west? but west does not give much squat for India.

India has defense pact with Russia however in the event of war if India walks out of the pact then no worries, your military looks good only on paper, time and again when need arises you guys are found "much" illprepared.

You guys are mostly good for peacekeeping operations. In the real battle your nuts and nuggets are spilled very quickly.

Russia and India do not have any defense pact that involves mutual defense or military action. Even the old Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation that end with the Soviet Union did not have that. India has defense cooperation agreements with Russia, the US, Japan and others but they simply covers things like weapons sales, cooperation in certain technologies, and other economic items.

India's pivot to the US/Japan and the West in military affairs occurred for several reasons. China being the main concern. Russian failure to deliver weapons systems in working order or on time became to much for the Indians to overlook. Russia's overall weakness makes it of little use to India, What India sees is China walking all over Russia and Russia being forced to accept it. China steals Russian influence in the former Soviets States, it makes big economics deals with Ukraine including joint development of fighter aircraft engines, it grabs Russian arms markets, it takes advantages trade deals with Russia and then when Russia needs Chinese support, it never materializes. So India sees no chance of Russia supporting them in a conflict with China. And the failure of BRICS who it spent the last summit fighting with China the entire time while Russia did nothing and the South Africa and Brazil barely showed up. Vietnam is in the same boat as India, Russia is not counter to China so it has to turn West. Although while India has seen a group of large scale trade and defense deals, Vietnam is still in the early stages.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: spy66

The Us is doing something about it and it's the Chinese who don't have the balls to start anything...

The Chinese are claiming that the water is their territory, their neighbours and international law dispute this. The US sails it's ships through those waters to invalidate the claim and China can do nothing about it. If it was genuine Chinese waters, they'd have the right to defend themselves, but they know they are on shaky ground with their claim and rely on it not being challenged for it to work. The Convention of the Sea does not allow you to build artificial islands to expand your territory, which is precisely what China is doing.

Why only now given the fact that this problem started almost two decades ago?

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: princeofpeace
Ha!!! US just entered the waters....and China did NOTHING

What else did you expect. China is all talk. They will never dare to touch the US, heck they wont even dare to attack Vietnam. One sanction from the US will collapse their economy.

Given the fact that the U.S. did nothing for almost two decades and the point that the two are major trading partners, it is unlikely that they will not "touch" each other. Just engage in more trade deals.

originally posted by: onthedownlow

originally posted by: brandonforsyth11
I think people are getting ahead of themselves, China are not dumb, they wouldn't fight US with your typical war. The US has borrowed hundreds of millions from China so china can ruin their economy in a day, can pull back on all exports of products, which as we know nearly everything is made in China so stop talking about crap saying US would win with their naval force when that's not the type of war China would oppose...

Silly

the US would boost its economy with the war effort... China would have to do the same. I don't see either side going down without a fight. China has a few allies in the region, but none of them will fight a foreign war in Asia, at least not on China's behalf. China does not hold all of the cards, and It is hard to bluff when all your cards are on the table.

Except that the U.S. can only do so through more credit creation, which is what ironically caused it to crash in 2008.

In the end, we have to understand that this is not something new but something that has been going on since the mid-'90s. Given that plus the fact that China is a major trading partner of the U.S. and of many countries in the same region, we will have to consider the point that China might not hold all of the cards, but it might be holding most of them.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: brandonforsyth11
I think people are getting ahead of themselves, China are not dumb, they wouldn't fight US with your typical war. The US has borrowed hundreds of millions from China so china can ruin their economy in a day, can pull back on all exports of products, which as we know nearly everything is made in China so stop talking about crap saying US would win with their naval force when that's not the type of war China would oppose...

Actually economic warfare is also considered actual war so if china does that their debt is nulled as well. Also IF china did that th e US would destroy them for FREE. w e have enough resources to do so ourselves.

Actually, the U.S. does not have enough resources to wage such a war. As it is, it can barely create enough credit to pay for wars against weaker countries.

originally posted by: yuppa
OH please china make the USN's Day and also the US economys day by negating our debt due to a un provoked attack in INTERNATIONAL WATERS. Oh please please please! The UN would then have grounds to kick you out even with the VEto.

One has to consider the fact that this issue started almost two decades ago and the U.S. or the UN barely did anything about it during the whole period, that several of the countries challenging China have their won claims, and that the U.S. and the same countries are major trading partners of China.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: chewi
a reply to: FormOfTheLord
I wouldn't worry too much America. If these Islands come to fruition then you could always wipe them out with a Enola gay flying one last mission.
You are bullies, Face it. Its how you control the world to work as you want.
All these countries never tried to conquer the world like UK and USA, its all retaliatory moves to western domination of the world markets.

Since when was I America, the actions of a government arent the actions of each individual in the country.

I oppose nuclear war, and conquering other countries wether its the USA, UK, Japan, Germany, or whoever is doing it, I support peace not just in Asia, but peace around the world.

I dont support bullies and do not like being accused of being one.
If America bullies someone that doesnt mean everyone in America supports that action, in fact most people I know would rather see the US government stop wars and take care of our own country instead of telling other countries what they can and cant do. Then again I dont speak for everyone some people do support America doing regime changes and support war against people they see as thier enemy.

America is a country of free thought and many like myself voice our opinion which is often against what the media is putting out as news. I may be an American but I am not responsible for the actions of my government or other people. I am only respnsible for my own actions.

It's likely that the citizenry had any control over the government, or the military, or the financial elite. It's likely been a military-industrial complex for many decades, with all costs passed on to the public, whether they supported it or not.

You don't just take on the U.S Navy, you would basically be killing your whole fleet and yourself. Unless it was prepared until every last man knew exactly what he was doing then an opponent may have a chance.

More activity a littoral ship deployment.

www.stripes.com...

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Isurrender73

So maybe China should start paying off smaller nations and building airstrips and leave international water alone?

This is option that China should be open too, if they can cine to financial and military agreements.

Honestly I don't know what the solution is. But the absolute last, and impossible to consider solution at this point is war.

War cannot be an option anymore.

The US has bases. China does not want bases. They want to own the land. The equivalent to the US would be if we went to the Philippines and took some of their islands and claimed it was US territory.

There is no comparison.

Interestingly enough, that actually happened.

No it didn't. What islands did the US steal from the PI?

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: spy66

The Us is doing something about it and it's the Chinese who don't have the balls to start anything...

The Chinese are claiming that the water is their territory, their neighbours and international law dispute this. The US sails it's ships through those waters to invalidate the claim and China can do nothing about it. If it was genuine Chinese waters, they'd have the right to defend themselves, but they know they are on shaky ground with their claim and rely on it not being challenged for it to work. The Convention of the Sea does not allow you to build artificial islands to expand your territory, which is precisely what China is doing.

Why only now given the fact that this problem started almost two decades ago?

Because China was merely stating control before, now they are actively building islands. Are you saying China built islands two decades ago?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: spy66

The Us is doing something about it and it's the Chinese who don't have the balls to start anything...

The Chinese are claiming that the water is their territory, their neighbours and international law dispute this. The US sails it's ships through those waters to invalidate the claim and China can do nothing about it. If it was genuine Chinese waters, they'd have the right to defend themselves, but they know they are on shaky ground with their claim and rely on it not being challenged for it to work. The Convention of the Sea does not allow you to build artificial islands to expand your territory, which is precisely what China is doing.

Why only now given the fact that this problem started almost two decades ago?

Because China was merely stating control before, now they are actively building islands. Are you saying China built islands two decades ago?

It doesn't make sense to wait until building is completed, especially, when the process spans across several years.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Isurrender73

So maybe China should start paying off smaller nations and building airstrips and leave international water alone?

This is option that China should be open too, if they can cine to financial and military agreements.

Honestly I don't know what the solution is. But the absolute last, and impossible to consider solution at this point is war.

War cannot be an option anymore.

The US has bases. China does not want bases. They want to own the land. The equivalent to the US would be if we went to the Philippines and took some of their islands and claimed it was US territory.

There is no comparison.

Interestingly enough, that actually happened.

No it didn't. What islands did the US steal from the PI?

You must be kidding:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: Isurrender73

So maybe China should start paying off smaller nations and building airstrips and leave international water alone?

This is option that China should be open too, if they can cine to financial and military agreements.

Honestly I don't know what the solution is. But the absolute last, and impossible to consider solution at this point is war.

War cannot be an option anymore.

The US has bases. China does not want bases. They want to own the land. The equivalent to the US would be if we went to the Philippines and took some of their islands and claimed it was US territory.

There is no comparison.

Interestingly enough, that actually happened.

No it didn't. What islands did the US steal from the PI?

You must be kidding:

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Ah no, you must be. The PI was an American territory. You claimed the US stole an island from the PI. It did not happen. talking about a period over 100 years ago, when many Filipinos wanted to stay part of the USA, and many today wish they still were, has nothing to do with building an island to steal land. Which part of that Philippine land did the USA steal and is part of America?

If that is the best you got then I accept your surrender.

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: monkeyluv

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: spy66

The Us is doing something about it and it's the Chinese who don't have the balls to start anything...

The Chinese are claiming that the water is their territory, their neighbours and international law dispute this. The US sails it's ships through those waters to invalidate the claim and China can do nothing about it. If it was genuine Chinese waters, they'd have the right to defend themselves, but they know they are on shaky ground with their claim and rely on it not being challenged for it to work. The Convention of the Sea does not allow you to build artificial islands to expand your territory, which is precisely what China is doing.

Why only now given the fact that this problem started almost two decades ago?

Because China was merely stating control before, now they are actively building islands. Are you saying China built islands two decades ago?

It doesn't make sense to wait until building is completed, especially, when the process spans across several years.

It's not completed, they did not wait until it was. Can you show me sources where your claim of China starting the building of the island 20 years ago?