Turkey 'downs aircraft on Syria border'

Let's say it was Russia... Turkey shy down one of Russia's fighters last week... what would be the reaction now if it were Russia's again?

a reply to: RogueWave

Yes, 'Thumping' is a well know tactic used to harass or get the attention of another aircraft. The Soviet and Chinese used it a lot when they were intercepting US aircraft during the Cold War. Incredibly dangerous if the pilot gets it wrong! They would sometime pull ahead and thump the other aircraft with their afterburners. The result would disrupt the airflow over the other aircraft wings and disrupts its flight. The tactic could also be used at night to disorientate a crew with the sudden lighting of the afterburner. All sides could employ that tactic.

The Turkish F-16 Pilot only needs to close on the UAV at slow speed, edge forward and thump it with its afterburner. The UAV would simply spin out of control. Hell even a close pass and crossing in front so that the UAV had to fly through the wake would bring it down.

a reply to: tommyjo

So you cant back it up, thought so. Cool story bro.

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: tommyjo

So you cant back it up, thought so. Cool story bro.

Oh for crying out loud! I served as an intelligence analyst in the UK Armed Forces for 22 years. I've seen enough Cold War thumping videos filmed from the cockpit to last me a lifetime.

Here is an account from a US perspective.

Other times, especially with the Chinese, they would perform a routine we called “thumping.” The thumping maneuver involved the Soviet or Chinese aircraft dropping below and behind us into our blind zone. Then, without warning, the interceptor would go into afterburner and zoom climb almost vertically directly in front of us, thereby shaking us violently with the generated turbulence.

Link

Think about it? It isn't rocket science! Think of the effect on a small UAV if an F-16 flys in front and disrupts its airflow? Now think about what effect a blast of afterburner would have on that small UAV. It is going to spin out of control!

So Beard: ISIL Fighters Cut Losses and Flee Russian Airstrikes for Turkey

ISIL fighters appear to be shaving off their beards before fleeing to Turkey to escape Russian airstrikes.

Hundreds of ISIL fighters are fleeing Syria for Turkey, as Russia's Defense Ministry previously said, and reports are popping up that they are leaving their beards behind.

sputniknews.com...

Should Turkey be letting them through or arresting them and shipping them to Guantanmo?

Oh I forgot..........Turkey is more busy shooting down the drones and feeling giggly about it.

a reply to: tommyjo

Oh for crying out loud! I served as an intelligence analyst in the UK Armed Forces for 22 years. I've seen enough Cold War thumping videos filmed from the cockpit to last me a lifetime.

Ok, I thought this was your inspiration,

Here is an account from a US perspective.

Touche.

I see nothing about this technique being used to down drones, though.

Think about it? It isn't rocket science! Think of the effect on a small UAV if an F-16 flys in front and disrupts its airflow? Now think about what effect a blast of afterburner would have on that small UAV. It is going to spin out of control!

I get the principle I just don't think they would risk collision trying to graze a much slower flying and small drone.

I served as an intelligence analyst in the UK Armed Forces for 22 years.

Then you should understand that the story that they tried to contact it first is bogus. They obviously had to know that it was a drone.

How do you think it was identified? Ground radar, air to air radar, visually from the ground or visually from the air?

a reply to: ScrewGmail

It was about 2 miles inside Turkish territory.

Apparently the drone is not the only thing the Turks managed to shot down :

Fallen `Drone' Takes Turkish Lira Down as Syria Tension Rises

Turkey’s currency fell with stocks and bonds after the military shot down an aircraft on the border with Syria, intensifying the security risk in a nation where a hung parliament and ethnic strife are keeping investors on the edge.

While officials didn’t identify the type or nationality of the aircraft, the state-run news agency released images of a damaged unmanned drone. The U.S. suspects it was sent by Russia, Reuters reported, citing an unidentified American official. The lira pared its third weekly rally, the Borsa Istanbul 100 Index of stocks fell for a second day and 10-year government bonds dropped for the first time in three days.

Here is some perspective:



What did they shoot it down with? A rubber band?!

a reply to: MrSpad
a reply to: TechniXcality

OMG get over yourselves.....Libya, Syria....same CIA/NATO playbook as Operation Boot/TPAJAX project in Iran in 1953......which the CIA have ADMITTED to partaking in....60 years after the fact.

Read this link and educate your goddamn selves

Who the feck knows what's really going on but you can be sure US ain't hitting ISIS, and you can be even more surer they created ISIS, and all the Rebels, and the uprisings, just like they did in 1953....same playbook, same foreign policy.

All those poor innocent lives for the sake of oil and money.....you guys should be ashamed for being so ignorantly blind to the reality that US is as evil as what you would like to believe Russia is.

But for those not interested in the long version, here are some of the juicy details from that incident:

The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, known in Iran as the 28 Mordad coup, was the overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the United Kingdom (under the name "Operation Boot") and the United States (under the name TPAJAX Project).[3][4][5][6]

Mossadegh had sought to audit the books of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC), a British corporation (now BP) and to change the terms of the company's access to Iranian petroleum reserves. Upon the refusal of the AIOC to co-operate with the Iranian government, the parliament (Majlis) voted to nationalize the assets of the company and expel their representatives from the country.[7][8][9] Following the coup in 1953, a government under General Fazlollah Zahedi was formed which allowed Mohammad-Rezā Shāh Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran (Persian for king),[9] to rule the country more firmly as monarch. He relied heavily on US and UK support to hold on to power until his own overthrow in February 1979.[7][8][9][10] In August 2013, 60 years after, the American Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) admitted that it was involved in both the planning and the execution of the coup, including the bribing of Iranian politicians, security and army high-ranking officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda.[11][12] The CIA is quoted acknowledging the coup was carried out "under CIA direction" and "as an act of U.S. foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government."[13]

Britain and the US selected General Zahedi to be the prime minister of a government that was to replace Mosaddegh's. Subsequently, a royal decree dismissing Mosaddegh and appointing Zahedi was drawn up by the coup plotters and signed by the Shah. The CIA had successfully pressured the weak monarch to participate in the coup, while bribing street thugs, clergy, politicians and Iranian army officers to take part in a propaganda campaign against Mosaddegh and his government.[21] At first the coup appeared to be a failure when, on the night of 15–16 August, Imperial Guard Colonel Nematollah Nassiri was arrested while attempting to arrest Mosaddegh. The Shah fled the country the next day. On 19 August, a pro-Shah mob paid by the CIA marched on Mosaddegh's residence.[22] According to the CIA's declassified documents and records, some of the most feared mobsters in Tehran were hired by the CIA to stage pro-Shah riots on 19 August. Other CIA-paid men were brought into Tehran in buses and trucks, and took over the streets of the city.[23] Between 300[1] and 800 people were killed because of the conflict.[2] Mosaddegh was arrested, tried and convicted of treason by the Shah's military court. On 21 December 1953, he was sentenced to three years in jail, then placed under house arrest for the remainder of his life.[24][25][26] Other Mosaddegh supporters were imprisoned, and several received the death penalty.[9]

Wow, this time it is being reported in a major news outlet. Although I see it is only a drone...?

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: tommyjo

Then you should understand that the story that they tried to contact it first is bogus. They obviously had to know that it was a drone.

How do you think it was identified? Ground radar, air to air radar, visually from the ground or visually from the air?

They go through the procedures regardless. The drone regardless of type could have a a live pilot/controller listening on guard frequency. If they vacate the region then no action is taken. The UAV they shot down was obviously on a pre-programmed route but regardless they still go through the standard operational procedures before engaging. Why is that so hard to understand?

It was more than likely passed up the chain of command after being identified from a ground observer. It is a tiny drone but probaby easily heard droning in Turkish airspace by a ground unit. They would likely have passed up the observation which resulted in the combat air patrol searching for and engaging the UAV.

a reply to: tommyjo

What did they shoot it down with?

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: tommyjo

What did they shoot it down with?

The Turkish airforce.

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: tommyjo

What did they shoot it down with?

What do you think they could USE to shoot it down with?. The Turks have already revealed that it was an air-to-air that resulted in the UAV being downed. It isn't rocket science! 20mm Vulcan cannon, AIM-9 Sidewinder or the use of thumping. Why are you even asking? The F-16 pilot could have grazed the UAV with 20mm or used thumping to disrupt the airflow. A kill is a kill is a kill. It doesn't make any difference what method the F-16 Pilot used.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And what did the Turkish airforce use to shoot it down, Xscatdra?

I get it, jets.

Then what did the jets belonging to the Turkish airforce shoot it down with?

a reply to: tommyjo

The point is that the downed drone doesn't show any signs of being hit by a cannon or a missile.

a reply to: LightAssassin

It's people like you that really get under my skin usually it's an Aussie or people like rouge wave talking about being a man. Your pretentiousness is oozing from your pores , you need to get over us,world powers big or small; so yes even the good old land down under engage in surreptitious activity for their own interests. You don't like it, that's fine you are just acting ignorantly superior, and quite frankly you just fall in with hate America first crowd which has a good presence here . Not original, nothing spectacular about you thought process, you are not more highly evolved or a more fair thinker, just someone spewing vitriol,oh look how bad America sucks, lol I really do wonder if you check for Uncle Sam underneath your bed before you go to sleep. Anyway I'm well aware that ALL countries have done this and will do this so its strategically important for America to engage and no I don't always agree with our actions. The truth is America just does it better and others want to see America fall, and I got not news for you that ain't gonna happen so deal with it,and stop acting like a loud mouth and educate your goddamn self.

a reply to: TechniXcaltity

It's people like you that really get under my skin usually it's an Aussie or people like rouge wave talking about being a man.

Lol, so I really got under your skin with that huh. Wow, man up dude, instead of spilling your guts.

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: crazyewok

Fair enough well said

One question?

Hopefully it will never come to pass but......

What if you got orders from the USA to deploy to Syria to help ISIS fight Russia?