The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

Wow, my whole quote and response went all buggy and even buggier when I tried to edit!

a reply to: deadeyedick

I heard a higher power got mad and pissed all over south Carolina because they removed the flag from gov. property.

What higher power would that be the Ku Klux Klan? Besides another one of the bible thumpers is crying that happened because America turned it's back on Israel. Religious people are so confused.

I wonder what kind of destruction we will see over his son's birth scene being removed.

Seeing how it's been removed from places for years and nothing has happened yet don't expect anything to happen soon.

Lord forgive them cause they aint got no sense anymore.

Like believing in a magical sky fairy that snapped it's fingers and created everything requires sense.

double post

a reply to: DelMarvel

And frankly a lot of that separation is being being generated by right wing Christians with their Grinch like buzz kill of this ginned up "War on Christmas."
Try greeting someone with an inclusive "Happy Holidays" (an old phrase) and you're often taken to task with a rude "It's Merry Christmas." I get that even from cashiers in major chain stores in my community. So it's not "whatever you celebrate is fine" for a lot of people.

If someone says happy Holidays to me, I will say it back to them because I don't know if they even celebrate Christmas. At one time we said either Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas but with political correctness going crazy, people are expected to just say Happy Holidays and not Merry Christmas, so some people don't appreciate that.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Gryphon66

I remember a time when every mall and places of business had Christmas trees with Nativity sets beneath the branches, there were also menorahs displayed and Christmas carols were sung. It wasn't against the law back then to have them there. There was no outrage. If someone didn't follow a religion, they didn't make a big deal out of it and would tell us to enjoy our holiday.

As noted, malls and businesses aren't schools.

Malls and businesses can display what they want.

Schools cannot act to establish one religion over another or over none.

There are good reasons for that, mostly to protect the religious, rather than the non-religious.

You do not want your local, State or Federal government to dictate your religion to you.

No one else wants you to dictate your religion to them.

It's not that complex.

and the fact of the matter is, the meaning of most of the symbols of christmas have been pretty much lost in time, and therefore have really no religious significance whatsoever to most people. any school wishing to have a christmas (see, I'm an oldie also, it's christmas to me and so I will call it that, probably till the day I die regardless of what anyone else wishes to call it...old habits are hard to die!) celebration at school could easily have one without any reference to the religious part of it and avoid offending or leaving anyone out of the celebration.

1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;

6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,


2 Corinthians 1-6

Please tell me, just what harm would it do to keep the religious aspects of the christmas season out of the public ceremonies, and enjoy those religious aspects in your home, or your place of worship? Would it be so painful for you to do, that it justifies offending others?

Again, organized religion is not the way to go. It creates a "sheep/herd mentality". You do not need to go to any place of worship to help "get to the truth" closer. Just connect to your Higher Self by "going within".

a reply to: Gryphon66

You do not want your local, State or Federal government to dictate your religion to you.

No one else wants you to dictate your religion to them.

It's not that complex.

You're right, people would not want their religion dictated to them. I don't follow any one religion or path but take the good from wherever I may find it. I do believe in a God or higher power or whatever. I do think that Jesus was someone who was a good and inspiring man back in his time. But I don't see having a nativity set in a school play as forcing anyone to change their own belief system. It is a Christmas show and it seems harmless to me.

originally posted by: itanosam
Again, organized religion is not the way to go. It creates a "sheep/herd mentality". You do not need to go to any place of worship to help "get to the truth" closer. Just connect to your Higher Self by "going within".

I don't believe you need to go to a place of worship to help get to the truth closer either. Religion, gives some people something to hold on to, to turn to, that gives them inspiration and hope. I can't fault them for that.

Back in the day - - - public schools had prayer and Christmas was celebrated in full with Jesus and his Nativity.

Everyone knew their place. No one complained.

Really? Who ever asked them? Who ever asked the Jewish kid if it bothered him singing songs to Christ?

No one did - - because Christianity dominated. It was a bullying environment.

Only after some had had enough - - and won lawsuits - - did others speak up.

a reply to: Annee

I went to school in the 60's and 70's, I don't remember them ever leading us in prayer, or nativity scenes, maybe it was because there was a high jewish population in my area that I didn't know about....
all I knew about was the high mafia population in the area to be honest.
ya there was christmas carols and some of them referred to the religious theme, but really, there wasn't that much of the religious theme in the school celebration.
and certainly no prayer that I remember. I do remember one day every week some of the kids got to leave the school grounds and go to churches for some kind of instruction though, we had quite a few churches close by our school. if you were catholic, you could go to the catholic church, or there was the protestant church, along with a couple other denominations if I remember right, and probably jewish.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Annee

I went to school in the 60's and 70's,

I went to school in the 50s.

Madalyn Murray O'Hair - - 1960 it begins. Separation of Church and State is something I've been following for a long time.

Murray filed a lawsuit against the Baltimore City Public School System in 1960, in which she asserted that it was unconstitutional for her son William to be required to participate in Bible readings at Baltimore public schools. In this litigation, she stated that her son's refusal to partake in the Bible readings had resulted in bullying being directed against him by classmates, and that administrators condoned it.[10]

After consolidation with Abington School District v. Schempp, the lawsuit reached the Supreme Court of the United States in 1963. The Court voted 8–1 in Schempp's favor, which effectively banned mandatory Bible verse recitation at public schools in the United States. Prayer in schools other than Bible-readings had already been ended in 1962 by the Court's ruling in Engel v. Vitale. en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: Night Star
But I don't see having a nativity set in a school play as forcing anyone to change their own belief system. It is a Christmas show and it seems harmless to me.

I do not mean this to sound as harsh as it may sound, but, that's your take on the matter. You sound like a sort of ecumenical person ... but there are some folks who are not who either have a religion that is counter to Christianity, or have no religion.

They have a right to religious freedom as well. And beyond the question of religious freedom (which is not the main focus in this question) is the question of not establishing a religion.

What you do and don't find offensive isn't the measure.

A Christmas Nativity Scene is distinctly Christian.

It does not belong in a School Sponsored event.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Good OP, bumped... but there's no panic. The war is already over.
Lawfulness argued for a spiritual event might bankrupt both.
Of course, I'm just a stupid, bitter old tool maker without family
or prospects-- so I'm probably with my amount and quality of
friends besides the very least affected.
Not even crying in my glug, just for that kingfisher today. He's
worth three of me right now I swear it.

I'm starting though to think whoever's setting the X argument
up and running it wants us all equally bankrupt in a lot of ways.

For the issue of a public school and the taxpayers having to foot
the bill for even a candy bar and a piece of fresh fruit.. damn straight
no. That's a Christmas treat and is unconstitutional-- because some
PC is going to feel as if he's expected to appreciate a gift from some
other group that believes in some Cloud Lord which makes you uneasy.
Nativity? VERBOTEN
Besides human birthing in an agricultural facility is a violation of Health&
Safety... can't get them used to that idea either. And that pig in the
corner looks suspicious, do a retinal scan on him.

Tell you what, we'll give the apple and Milky Way to somebody who'll
actually like it. God forbid anybody tries to teach you sacrifice.

And besides aren't we allowed to look at the FLIP side
of the 1st , and equal protection clause? Maybe its lack...

The shortages could be tolerance, maybe to even
other's style of love's practice-- not religion

It's a miserable, light-deprived enough time of year already for
those of us with little to give much less to whom.
But let's chop a real tree down this year to put the artificial caring
of capital loss under-- to prove that at least superficially we givea damn.

"He must love them: he'll probably be eating cat food until April."
Whatever legal team gets in the way of that will get hit for incidental,
consequential and punitive emotiional damages to minor children.
THERRE, THAT'LL get the ACLU's attention...

sarc/ After 29 pages of reading through everyone's posts, I don't think
we're equally miserable. Work on it... maybe if we're lucky each other./sarc
FFS, mow my snow and call me outa season. I love kontrol monsters.

We wish you a dull Xmas...
We wish you a bland Xmam...
We wish you an empty Xmas...

With no Christ in sight!

originally posted by: EternalSolace
We wish you a dull Xmas...
We wish you a bland Xmam...
We wish you an empty Xmas...

With no Christ in sight!

Exactly why the argument that this has nothing to do with Jesus or establishing Christianity is so obviously dishonest.

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Gryphon66

I remember a time when every mall and places of business had Christmas trees with Nativity sets beneath the branches, there were also menorahs displayed and Christmas carols were sung. It wasn't against the law back then to have them there

It's not against the law to have them there now. There are Christmas trees in malls and businesses with Christmas carols playing. There's Christmas all over the place.

I just don't understand where people come up with this. Brainwashed by Fox news or what?

originally posted by: Aazadan
Your wish is precisely how I treat Christmas complete with no gifts, but the rest of society doesn't really go along with that so any time I go out in public I'm reminded of the abomination known as our Christmas celebration. I'm torn if I would get my children gifts on Christmas if I had any.

Hmmm... If I had kids I think I would bite the bullet and uphold the commercialism tradition. I know that all their classmates and friends would be enjoying it and celebrating it and I wouldn't want them to be left out just because I'm fed up with the season. And to be honest, I'm still buying gifts for the rest of my family, so things likely wouldn't change. Plus there is always your significant other's opinion. If she wants to give gifts, what can you say?

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: Gryphon66

I remember a time when every mall and places of business had Christmas trees with Nativity sets beneath the branches, there were also menorahs displayed and Christmas carols were sung. It wasn't against the law back then to have them there. There was no outrage. If someone didn't follow a religion, they didn't make a big deal out of it and would tell us to enjoy our holiday.

It's not against the law to have them in place of businesses now either. It's only not right to have them in government buildings. There is a difference between public and private property.

Besides that, there is a Christmas tree setup every year at the White House.