The Fox News 'War On Christmas' Panic Is Already Starting

a reply to: damwel

Right and there's absolutely no evidence that any group is in favor of making the US a theocratic govt is there? (Sarc)

Unless you're willing to present some.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: grandmakdw

Understood.

I'm just curious though. You have a certain understanding of the integrity of Christmas as generally celebrated in the US.

Why do all the other Christians have to agree with you? Why would you want to take their holiday away from them?

I, a prime example of a godless heathen, want nothing of the sort; I just don't want the Constitution to be trampled.

I am hoping that the eyes of
Christians will be opened to
what Christmas has become.

It is NOT "their" holiday as
many here have made clear.

It was created, not as a time to worship
but as a way to appease those who
wanted a winter celebration.

I hope that someday all Christians
will see that Christmas has become
overrun and over taken
by the perversion of materialism
by the naked greed of corporations
...who annually profit off of people who can't afford it
by the gluttony that has created a nation of obesity

That Christmas is clearly NOT
in any way shape or form
a truly Christian holiday.
I want to change the date and
restructure it to more
accurately reflect what
really happened.
And make it more like
Easter, on a Sunday where
there need be no fake holiday
(Holy Day).


You answer me this question:

Why would any non-Christian want to
engage in a holy day of another religion,
especially if they often say that the
religion represents oppression,
represents intolerance,
represents atrocities committed
hundreds of year ago,
would not a person who thinks like
that see the gross hypocrisy of
celebrating Christmas?
Especially when they acknowledge
that they think it is a religious day
by calling for the ban of religious symbols?

originally posted by: damwel
Right and there's absolutely no evidence that any group is in favor of making the US a theocratic govt is there? (Sarc)

The only "irrationality" on display in this issue is from the rabid supporters of unconstitutional actions.

I am a supporter of religious freedom ... the right of all to practice or not to practice.

The public lands are not the place for religious rituals; that belongs in churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, groves, grottoes, etc.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
Isn't the left by celebrating Christmas
engaging in an activity that purportedly
celebrates a religion that has oppressed you,
has persecuted you, has committed
horrific crimes hundreds of year ago?

Why celebrate that?

Who is celebrating religion??? Christmas has become a secular holiday in the US for MANY people, and they celebrate it however they wish. It has NOTHING to do with religion for me. And if you look around, it's actually that way for most people, religious or not. They're so into the prezzies. I'm pretty much just enjoying the time off work, good food and being with loved ones.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Grandma, I get that you are against the normal American Christmas. I can even understand why.

I just don't understand why you want to take it away from other Christians. Why not live and let live?

Call me crazy.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes, We do. You'll get no complaints from me about removing the Christmas tree from the White House.

Why don't you start a movement?

a reply to: Gryphon66

The only "irrationality" on display in this issue is from the rabid supporters of unconstitutional actions.

How is it unconstitutional?

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes I do, I'm just wondering why this is so offensive? I wouldn't care if it was a Muslim, or atheist demonstration. All cultures are part of the learning experience.

All this PC back and forth is getting on my nerves. Everyone is getting offended because they feel like they should, not because they actually are.

The only people who used the word "offensive" are right leaning people. The Nativity scene is inappropriate in a public school because of Separation of Church and State. It doesn't have to actually offend anyone for a case to be made to have it removed.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: rockintitz
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Yes I do, I'm just wondering why this is so offensive? I wouldn't care if it was a Muslim, or atheist demonstration. All cultures are part of the learning experience.

All this PC back and forth is getting on my nerves. Everyone is getting offended because they feel like they should, not because they actually are.

The only people who used the word "offensive" are right leaning people. The Nativity scene is inappropriate in a public school because of Separation of Church and State. It doesn't have to actually offend anyone for a case to be made to have it removed.

If you don't think it is offensive?
Then why remove it?

I think it is offensive to Christians
as a fairy tale perversion of
Christianity.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Irrelevant. Government taxes are still paying for it. The taxpayers are paying for lights, janitors and for the clean up and set up of the scenes.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes, We do. You'll get no complaints from me about removing the Christmas tree from the White House.

Why don't you start a movement?

How bout we both start a movement taking Christmas holiday pay from federal employees?
We can't have a payed day off for a religious holiday.
Separation of church and state and what not.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

And the ACLU is doing what exactly?

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Is it held on the property of the People using the resources of the People?

If so, it's unconstitutional. Period.

So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

Yes, We do. You'll get no complaints from me about removing the Christmas tree from the White House.

Why don't you start a movement?

How bout we both start a movement taking Christmas holiday pay from federal employees?
We can't have a payed day off for a religious holiday.
Separation of church and state and what not.

Sounds fine to me; I'm in favor of the Constitution.

Why don't you do that, if you feel strongly about it?

Every year it starts. Fox and their "war on Christmas" outrage. It's not news, is it? We all know it's coming up, yet there is no way to avoid it. I guess Fox has to dig really deep to find stories like this one to further their agenda.

At the September 8 school board meeting, superintendent John Stout, made the following statement:

But at the Sept. 8 meeting of the Concord School Board, Trout made it clear the district would not be backing down and that the Nativity scene will remain part of the holiday performance. The community has largely stood behind Trout in defense of the Nativity scene. The performance in question has been an important part of the Concord holiday experience for more than 30 years, Trout said.

At that meeting, Trout addressed those in attendance and said Concord Community Schools “unequivocally” disagrees with the Freedom From Religion Foundation’s assertion that any school celebration occurring during the Christmas holiday season must be entirely secular.

“That is not accurate statement of the law,” he said at the meeting. “As always, if a student or parent finds objectionable any portion of the Spectacular, or any school assignment for that matter, that student is free to opt out of the performance or assignment.”

(emphasis mine)

Elkhar Truth

From the same link as above, the response from FFRF:

Although Concord officials say participation in the Nativity scene is voluntary, the Freedom From Religion Foundation said that does not make it OK.

“Schools should not be putting on events in which students would feel compelled to absent themselves due to inappropriate religious content,” Annie Laurie Gaylor, co-president of the foundation, said in a statement Wednesday.

The actual complaint is posted on the above sourced page.

So, Fox has done it again. They have begun reporting on a news story that started sometime in August, and has resulted in a lawsuit filed by the FFRF and ACLU, on behalf of John doe, a parent, and Jack Doe, a student, at Concord High School, which has approximately 1500 students enrolled.

Is Christmas over commercialized? Of course it is. Maybe returning to a more traditional celebration of Christmas, taking it back into the church is what we need to do. I'm not sure what will make some folks happy.

As for Fox, all I hear from folks on ATS is complaints about their credibility, how they report faux news, they are biased, etc. Then why are so many of you watching it? Change the channel and you won't be subjected to their agenda and biased reporting.

SMH

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Grandma, I get that you are against the normal American Christmas. I can even understand why.

I just don't understand why you want to take it away from other Christians. Why not live and let live?

Call me crazy.

I have my point of view.
I can express it.
I can tell people what I think, and do.
But I don't put them down if they disagree, not in person.
I do live and let live, but that does not preclude
saying what I believe.
I'm not forcing anyone to believe as I do,
I may state my case, but I don't force anyone.

I support the abolishing of Christmas in the US
the way it is celebrated today.

I do live and let live.
I don't force anyone to stop celebrating.
They are free to do as they choose.

But that doesn't mean I can't express
my opinion and join the end Christmas in the US
movement.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Bluntone22
This play is an after school activity and is performed by volunteers. No student is required to participate or attend the event. Nothing is being forced on the students.

Irrelevant. Government taxes are still paying for it. The taxpayers are paying for lights, janitors and for the clean up and set up of the scenes.

And they would be paying the same amount if the play was about romeo and Juliette.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Why do all the other Christians have to agree with you? Why would you want to take their holiday away from them?

THIS! Christians don't have to act with one mind any more than progressive, liberal heathens do!

originally posted by: Bluntone22
So why does the Whitehouse have a Christmas tree every year? Don't the people own that property?

A tree is not a Christian symbol and does not support any one religion. In fact, the tree was in celebration of the winter solstice and has Pagan origins and has become a secular symbol:

The early Christian Church in the third century CE strictly prohibited the decoration of their houses with evergreen boughs. The decorated Christmas tree only caught on in the mid-19th century.

Modern-day opposition continues: some condemn the Christmas tree because they believe that the custom of cutting down a tree, erecting it in the home and decorating it is a Pagan custom.

For many people today, it is primarily as a secular symbol of hope for the New Year and the future return of warmth to the earth. Its future is assured in spite of opposition.

Source

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Gryphon66

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

And the ACLU is doing what exactly?

The ACLU is not a representative of the United States, any State, or any municipality, as far as I am aware.