Why Creation Is The Only Logical Explanation...

a reply to: Raggedyman

You think. Show the evidence. Here let me make it clear and easy.

Jehovah/Allah has no power over me. I am a member of another tribe, and they protect their own. *ghosti is in place, where I serve them, and they stand for me.

So nah, I don't fear him, I acknowledge he is a (one of many) Deity, not one of mine, and certainly not all powerful.

But guess what, like all you have stated here, it is unverifiable personal or shared gnosis. The first word there is the important unverifiable.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
Interesting article. It still doesn't make creationism the only logical conclusion. It's a possibility. However that doesn't change the fact that we still don't have any solid evidence of the creator being.

No creation a Creator is not a logical conclusion, its a conclusion based on faith. Faith is not logical
Its just I dont think the evidence for evolution is solid enough to make it more than a faith, maybe i desire empirical evidence

originally posted by: Joecanada11
It doesn't change that the bible is rife with stories of miracles and phenomenon that we have not seen in our lifetime. That there are many inconsistencies in the bible. And therefore it cannot be taken as literal truth.

Yep and if you dont believe them who am I to argue.
I have read things in the Koran and think its absurd. No argument.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
The ark story itself is just a logical and logistical nightmare. Seven animals of each kind. That means 7 tigers 7 bears 7 lions 7 wolves 7 cats 7 giraffes 7 elephants 7 rhinos 7 mastadons and on and on. All being kept in a boat slightly larger than a football field. What did they eat? All the vegetation of the earth would have perished after the flood and it would have taken time for it to grow back. Therefore the herbivores wouldn't have food. And what about the carnivores. They would have had to wait for the herbivores to reproduce enough that they could eat. They would have perished while waiting.

2 animals of each kind and seven clean animals
Genesis 2 7
Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate.
And seriously, would you take a full grown hippo, giraffe, elephant or young, small animals.
Still, its a tricky explain.

originally posted by: Joecanada11

The logical explanation for the flood story is that many thousands of years ago there was a great flood. To the people at the time they would have considered it the end of the world. Of course they would say the cause was a diety being angry at the people because that's how natural disasters were explained due to lack of knowledge. Then the story grew even more and it included how one family escaped and it grew and grew and you have the story.

Many cultures world wide have a flood story
www.talkorigins.org...

Seems a little coincidental if they are all not related?

originally posted by: Joecanada11

Then Sodom and Gomorrah would be similar. A volcano erupts and spews fire down from heaven. The survivors tell the story of God being angry. And it grows. This isn't too hard to understand.

Yep, quite possible though, in the bible, its caused by God as a judgement of sin.
The bible could be wrong, just a faith belief of many

originally posted by: Joecanada11

Why isn't God performing any of these great acts anymore. Oh right he sent himself to sacrifice to himself on our behalf and no longer is active. How convenient.

Convenient?
Christ has brought in a new covenant
I dont have all the answers, free will, responsibility.
Now God sent Christ as a sacrifice for sin, it wasnt to appease Himself, it was to appease the law, justice

Its your choice what to believe.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: Raggedyman

You think. Show the evidence. Here let me make it clear and easy.

Jehovah/Allah has no power over me. I am a member of another tribe, and they protect their own. *ghosti is in place, where I serve them, and they stand for me.

So nah, I don't fear him, I acknowledge he is a (one of many) Deity, not one of mine, and certainly not all powerful.

But guess what, like all you have stated here, it is unverifiable personal or shared gnosis. The first word there is the important unverifiable.

and you are welcome to believe what you like, I retracted my comment
try and work through why I retracted my comment, apply both thought and reason.

Noinden, for a person who claims higher education, you dont seem to have a capacity to apply it.

a reply to: edmc^2

Here we go again...

I swear, every time I check back into ATS some moron has written up a post identical to this one.

I will simply say this: lack of evidence is not evidence. In case that doesn't make sense, allow me to elaborate: just because the scientific community doesn't have all of the answers does not default to the existence of god or what some asshats wrote in a book a few thousand years ago. You are literally claiming that a fairy tale that some ignorant douchebags made up HAS TO BE TRUE because we haven't yet pin-pointed the origin of the universe. Science is the pursuit of truth, religion is the acceptance of bulls***.

More and more research is suggesting that this entire universe, as well as this reality, is a computer program running its coarse, kind of like a sandbox simulation. We're like a cognitive version of the Sims. How's that for god...

a reply to: Joecanada11

God enjoyed it?
Sounds a little strange

If God enjoyed it, why send Christ?

Didnt feel anything, what did you expect to feel?
Faith isnt based on feelings, christianity isnt based on feelings, life is pain.
Thats why Christians hope for a better, for rest, for a restored relationship

Gods emotions were never all over the place, sin requires justice.
Like that other crazy story, Jonah and the whale.
Jonah told Ninavah to repent or they would be destroyed for their evil.

Its that simple, sin and justice will follow, repent and receive mercy from justice.

God hasnt changed, its not emotion, its justice

If you saw things wrong, it could have been your perspective

a reply to: Raggedyman

Back to the attacks on the person eh? You made further comments, which I in turn replied too. Thus the discussion goes on. I know it is a novel concept.

a reply to: DestroyDestroyDestroy

So you are saying we live in a sandbox simulation, a computer program running its coarse

but prior to that you bemoan
"lack of evidence is not evidence," "You are literally claiming that a fairy tale that some ignorant douchebags made up HAS TO BE TRUE because we haven't yet pin-pointed the origin of the universe"

and the sandbox computer sim isnt a fairy tale with no evidence
"the acceptance of bulls***."

you and noinden would have a great conversation together, each talking, each just making stuff up and complaining when someone else does what you do

a reply to: Raggedyman

Isaiah 13:9
Verse Concepts
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.

Cruel and with fury and burning anger. Note it clearly says anger fury and cruel. Not just. By the way if your version of justice is the death penalty for working on a Saturday you should see a psychiatrist. Oh yeah that was gods version of justice.

Why did he wait so long to send himself down to earth and sacrifice himself. Why not do it immediately after Adam and Eve? Why bother with Moses and the Israelites if God knew it would fail and he would have to send Christ anyways. What was the point of mount Sinai. Christ's so called sacrifice would make mount Sinai a useless endeavor.

Then there's the Amalekites

2. 1 Samuel 15:3,8

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)

That didn't sound like justice to me. Killing the children and the animals? Nope not a loving god at all. He could have made himself known to them in a different manner.

Again his emotions are all over the place.

a reply to: edmc^2

heres my 2 cents worth infinity means limitless or without end usually quantitative. Always existing brings the time factor into the equation and more accurately describes something that ages or is subject to entropy.

Hence for the material universe to exist there must be by necessity an infinite source

But conversely one could argue that the infinite source (or god) came about from the Universe or from a Supra Universe. Why is it so hard to fathom that a universe can create a god?

Using your own biblical stories one could say that Yahweh has long ago left the stage. By this I mean notwithstanding the usual excuses that we don't have enough faith; I have yet to see limbs regenerated or the raising of the dead by Christ's followers.

a reply to: Raggedyman

From proverbs

But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

God will laugh at their calamity. Would you laugh if your children disobeyed you and ended up in serious trouble?

a reply to: edmc^2

Time - is infinite. Unless of course you believe that it to doesn't exist.

well it doesn't really exist - its just a series of nows. There is only the "now"

www.wildmind.org...

Being in the moment is just another way of saying that we are aware of what is going on in our experience, that we are not just being angry (or whatever) but are aware that we are angry and are aware that we can choose to be otherwise. Of course a lot of the time when we are not being in the moment, we are literally thinking about the past or present. We might be dwelling on the past – brooding about some past hurt. Or we may be fantasizing about a future in which we have won the lottery and are living out our lives in some imagined paradise, or daydreaming about being with the perfect partner. Often these fantasized pasts and futures are not even real possibilities, but simply fantasies of how things might be or of how we would have liked them to have been. And as with all unmindful activity, we have no awareness that this fantasizing is pointless. All that it does is reinforce unhelpful emotional tendencies that can never truly enrich our lives.

a reply to: edmc^2

The prime mover - the one who put the bang to the "big bang".

Any idea why the prime mover decided to create the Universe, if it is infinite love as some suggest how did it get by prior to creating the universe? Why did it suddenly get lonely?

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

Isaiah 13:9
Verse Concepts
Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it.

Cruel and with fury and burning anger. Note it clearly says anger fury and cruel. Not just. By the way if your version of justice is the death penalty for working on a Saturday you should see a psychiatrist. Oh yeah that was gods version of justice.

Why did he wait so long to send himself down to earth and sacrifice himself. Why not do it immediately after Adam and Eve? Why bother with Moses and the Israelites if God knew it would fail and he would have to send Christ anyways. What was the point of mount Sinai. Christ's so called sacrifice would make mount Sinai a useless endeavor.

Then there's the Amalekites

2. 1 Samuel 15:3,8

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.(NIV)

That didn't sound like justice to me. Killing the children and the animals? Nope not a loving god at all. He could have made himself known to them in a different manner.

Again his emotions are all over the place.

Joe, I am not trying to change what you believe, again its your choice

Hosea 6:6 "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice"

Yes God is angry and will come with fury to destroy those who hate Him, thats the truth.

Working on a Sabbath, what?
Did you not read the bible, David worked on Sabbath, he didnt die, Priests in Judaism work on the Sabbath, they live.
Jesus worked on the Sabbath
I dont even remotely understand how you could ask a christian if they believed the death penalty should be approved for working a Sabbath, I am nearly speechless you could ask that.
I expect that from extremely ignorant atheists

You dont understand what you believed, if I thought like you I wouldnt believe either.
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


God wont abide uncontrolled sin. Destroying the Amalekites was a very serious statement to the Jews (dont be like them) and surrounding nations
www.christiancadre.org...

www.gotquestions.org...

Now remember, modern day Amalekites and other tribes are controlling the Mid East

Now you keep saying God knew it would fail, that statement is contestable, and difficult to reason. I am not a calvinist.
There are a myriad of issues to that comment, I dont intend to get lost in a theological argument.

Yes I find the Amalekite genocide difficult, I dont have an answer, God is God, I am not

Gods emotions are very clear, sin dont repent and you will fall.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

From proverbs

But since you refuse to listen when I call
and no one pays attention when I stretch out my hand,
25 since you disregard all my advice
and do not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh when disaster strikes you;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you—
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

God will laugh at their calamity. Would you laugh if your children disobeyed you and ended up in serious trouble?

Nice quote from Proverbs 1 24, what about what you missed out on quoting, the preceeding verses, from verse one even


God warns they hate God, they do evil
Imagine not my children but soldiers of ISIS

They have been warned, they are evil, should God weep at the loss of such evil men, should God feel no joy at their destruction
We have been warned over and over again, you then decry God when their destruction is imminent and God is not sad?

But hey, you rely on feelings again, God feelings, then you make it about my children, I seem immune to your argument, I love my children and though they do silly things, I love them and they love me and they are sometimes disobedient, still they regard my advice and accept my rebuke.

Joe, you are playing a weary, repetitive game here

Look, I don't think there's any reasonable person who has read the likes of Heptameron or Rauðskinna doubts that the universe was created. But only the willfully ignorant believes a Christian god is responsible.

Then again, ignorance is bliss.

a reply to: 22theworld

So happy with yourself...that you give your own comment a thumbs up...

I understand the true reason for your bliss...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: 22theworld

So happy with yourself...that you give your own comment a thumbs up...

I understand the true reason for your bliss...

You realize your reply is half a step from "you smell bad, ergo I'm smarter than you," right?

Oh please. God is like the Santa Clause for adults. Be good and obey god or else. Yeah, the origin of it being called "fearing" makes perfect sense. It's like telling a child to be good or they won't get gifts from Santa. I don't know if you've read the bible or not, but god used to rule with an Iron fist, as did most of his followers in positions of power. You believe in god because it was pounded into your head as a child and that fear of god is now programmed into your brain a result, whether you think you directly fear him or not. Afterall, nobody wants to be sentenced to eternal suffering right?

Fear is the perfect word.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Sabbath

Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

These were rules given regarding Sabbath. Then you will tell me God changed the laws. Why bother with the ricudkous laws found in the old test in the first place.

originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: edmc^2

The prime mover - the one who put the bang to the "big bang".

Any idea why the prime mover decided to create the Universe, if it is infinite love as some suggest how did it get by prior to creating the universe? Why did it suddenly get lonely?

Lonely? How?

What about loved to give life.